sweepstakes Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 MPC is much easier to wrap your head around : garbage in, garbage out for both the sampler and the sequencer. It has some DSP and offline processing, and a few tools for messing with sequencing, but mostly it's very meat and potatoes. JJOS adds some neat tricks like other mute/simult modes, patterns, "instrument" mode, etc. MPC has some parameter automation which you could sort of argue bears some similarity to parameter locks. MPC has 8x more audio and 8x more MIDI tracks. OT has way, way more processing capability. 2 effects per track and they are all pretty legit even before you consider that all their parameters can be parameter locked or scene locked -and- LFO modulated. The filter in particular is really a sculptor's tool - you can for example turn white noise into a perfectly serviceable snare drum without too much fuss. The sequencer looks pretty wimpy on paper until you start digging into the options (retriggering, microtiming, scale (which you can use to turn 4 bars into 32 bars), and on the MIDI side all of this plus arpeggiators, LFOs, CCs, all with lockable parameters), and thinking about how it can integrate with the sampling engine. The sampler's sound is maybe a little blander and less "present" than the MPC but it can do a lot more with loop point modulation, LFOs, routing, streaming long samples from disk, etc. And all that before you get into 2 of the OT's big killer features - the track recorders and the scenes/crossfader. Not to mention the arranger which I've only scratched the surface of. Oh and being able to process external gear - daisy chain the MIDI of a couple synths, plug them into the inputs and go to town. TL;DR: Sampler: - MPC's for ample traditional sampling with lots of polyphony and layering - OT's for taking samples to outer space and operating on them in abstract, geometric, parametric ways Sequencer: - MPC for straightforward MIDI arrangement, record it and play it back, switch patterns and mute - OT for intricate step programming, polyrhythms, arpeggiators, and tight coupling with the audio engine Best workflow: - MPC for chopping up loops and arranging beats by finger drumming - OT for punching in sequences (faster than you can play them!), morphing between disparate settings using the scenes & crossfader, and mixing/processing external gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modey Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Speaking of Elektron gear, this thread on elektronauts really frustrated me: http://www.elektronauts.com/topics/view/11913/98509 It's as though some Elektron owners don't want to experiment for fear of doing something 'wrong'. Maybe I have some unfair advantage since I pretty much grew up with trackers and know how to exploit a straight note grid with the equivalent of micro-timing, but maaan I really wish people would just play around and tweak knobs sometimes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zleep Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 MPC is much easier to wrap your head around : garbage in, garbage out for both the sampler and the sequencer. It has some DSP and offline processing, and a few tools for messing with sequencing, but mostly it's very meat and potatoes. JJOS adds some neat tricks like other mute/simult modes, patterns, "instrument" mode, etc. MPC has some parameter automation which you could sort of argue bears some similarity to parameter locks. MPC has 8x more audio and 8x more MIDI tracks. OT has way, way more processing capability. 2 effects per track and they are all pretty legit even before you consider that all their parameters can be parameter locked or scene locked -and- LFO modulated. The filter in particular is really a sculptor's tool - you can for example turn white noise into a perfectly serviceable snare drum without too much fuss. The sequencer looks pretty wimpy on paper until you start digging into the options (retriggering, microtiming, scale (which you can use to turn 4 bars into 32 bars), and on the MIDI side all of this plus arpeggiators, LFOs, CCs, all with lockable parameters), and thinking about how it can integrate with the sampling engine. The sampler's sound is maybe a little blander and less "present" than the MPC but it can do a lot more with loop point modulation, LFOs, routing, streaming long samples from disk, etc. And all that before you get into 2 of the OT's big killer features - the track recorders and the scenes/crossfader. Not to mention the arranger which I've only scratched the surface of. Oh and being able to process external gear - daisy chain the MIDI of a couple synths, plug them into the inputs and go to town. TL;DR: Sampler: - MPC's for ample traditional sampling with lots of polyphony and layering - OT's for taking samples to outer space and operating on them in abstract, geometric, parametric ways Sequencer: - MPC for straightforward MIDI arrangement, record it and play it back, switch patterns and mute - OT for intricate step programming, polyrhythms, arpeggiators, and tight coupling with the audio engine Best workflow: - MPC for chopping up loops and arranging beats by finger drumming - OT for punching in sequences (faster than you can play them!), morphing between disparate settings using the scenes & crossfader, and mixing/processing external gear Octatrack has parameter locks, great for expressive programming. MPC has a more flexible structure, ie OT is bound to the 64 step pattern structure. MPC is truly polyphonic. Thanks! I have had an octatrack for a while, and I love it, but I have never played a mpc, so always curious about the difference between the two. I just bought a mpc1000 last week but returned it for some reason, probably will get another soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kausto Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Speaking of Elektron gear, this thread on elektronauts really frustrated me: http://www.elektronauts.com/topics/view/11913/98509 It's as though some Elektron owners don't want to experiment for fear of doing something 'wrong'. Maybe I have some unfair advantage since I pretty much grew up with trackers and know how to exploit a straight note grid with the equivalent of micro-timing, but maaan I really wish people would just play around and tweak knobs sometimes! Yeah. Btw i wrote about proper tracker triplet trick for OT on elektronauts some time ago: http://www.elektronauts.com/topics/view/8363/70452/page:3#70452 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest skibby Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 i am sort of blurry on the elektron stuff. they all seem to have vaguely similar functions. Is there one elektron device that covers all the bases or do you have to catch them all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psn Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 A4: CV only. MD & MnM & OT: Midi only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chesney Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 yeah modey, alot of elektronauts you have to ignore as they are stuck in the elektron loop. It's easy to get stuck in there especially if you listen to straight dance music. Skibby, All elektron machines have the same sequencer even if the newer ones get slightly improved. Each machines heart is totally different though. Monomachine is a Digi synth with many types of synthesis Machinedrum is a Drum machine with many forms of drum synthesis and the UW version allows short samples Octatrack is a sampler and sort of a performance hub Analogfour is a 4 x monosynth which can be used as a 4 voice poly. Has CV sequencer. Rytm is an analogue drum machine with pads and can take user samples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modey Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 It's funny, I've not even touched the monomachine in a whole week. I do have a nanoloop-only gig coming up next week though, so I've had to write 30 minutes of material for it. Hopefully I can get back into it after that, starting with the drum sound design I was doing in order to fill up my es-1 with new samples! Digital synths ftw though. I'm doing cooler stuff with the MnM and nanoloop than I was doing with my analog synths. Then again, my psychedelic synthpunk duo wouldn't be the same with digital synths haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweepstakes Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 It's funny, I've not even touched the monomachine in a whole week. I do have a nanoloop-only gig coming up next week though, so I've had to write 30 minutes of material for it. Hopefully I can get back into it after that, starting with the drum sound design I was doing in order to fill up my es-1 with new samples! I've been in the same boat. I think you've gotten further than me even though you've only had it like 1/4th the time. But I seem to remember having similar experiences with the Octatrack where I kept oscillating from thinking it was amazing to ignoring it or being underwhelmed. The good thing is I'm finding myself thinking in Monomachine-ese more, which was always fun with the OT too. You can do sort of synthesis "thought experiments" and come home and implement them. Fun but they rarely seem to sound as good or interesting as they do in my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modey Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Oh, for sure re: thought experiments. I've done a few of those, and yeah while they're not as exciting in reality, it's nice to be able to think like that again (I remember Buzz had a fairly similar sound design workflow, at least in the way I used it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psn Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 All elektron machines have the same sequencer even if the newer ones get slightly improved. Not really true. The AR doesen't really even have a sequencer for external stuff (but audio triggering external drum modules should be possible through the individual outputs). The two analogs have a severly limited song mode compared to the three older ones. Polymetric sequencing is not possible on MD and MnM. The MD has no arpeggiator. Squencing chords is pretty much different on all machines. MD has 16 possible tracks for MIDI sequencing, the MnM has six, the OT eight. The A4 has four tracks for CV which pretty fast results in only two mono voices if you split the channels up in a traditional cv/gate function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psn Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizza Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I think that Engine things looks a bit convoluted, but it might be fast to zip around on once you know all the commands and stuff. really hope they release one with different coloring. that thing's ugly as sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubin Farr Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 I prefer the EMX-1 because I have software samplers, so I wouldn't need the ESX-1, and I want to play with step sequencing synths easily. Also, blue>red Mine cost $300 on ebay in perfect used condition. Buuuuut if you really want a new one, korg is producing new units with extra memory. I wouldnt have any use for that personally, unless you make so many freaking patterns you cant control them, but the first emx-1's are fine IMO. (New models are identical to old ones, just have more mem). Make sure you know if you're getting the SD version, or the old big memory cards, which suck. I have like a dozen that could fit on a Micro SD these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marf Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 anyone elsee get like a depressed feeling when they play with music gear/software and shit is not working out but you try and try.....ready to give it all up, and then you just fuck around, go back to playfulness, and do shit you dont even pay attention to and you all of a sudden make something incredible and you feel total elation? i had that happen yesterday. both experiences Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 anyone elsee get like a depressed feeling when they play with music gear/software and shit is not working out but you try and try.....ready to give it all up, and then you just fuck around, go back to playfulness, and do shit you dont even pay attention to and you all of a sudden make something incredible and you feel total elation? i had that happen yesterday. both experiences oh yes I can relate to that, this happens for most of the tracks I do like it has to be part of the process. is that directly related to hardware sequencers discussion though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psn Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Mode Machines have a couple of interesting looking sequencers coming up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 anybody play with any of the midibox sequencers? The seq 4 and the seq 4 light? They look like the closest things to a circlon but in some ways more interesting (albeit the build quality you'd probably be able to come up with if from a kit is probably not even close to as good as an actual circlon) Im borrowing a Midi alf/cv sequencer right now and its very nice. Not quite worth the price imo but it would be if they added the ability to do 4 different tracks at once (instead of just 4 selectable sequencers or ability to chain all 4 to form 32 steps) midibox cvmidibox seq =cirklon brother have you used one chunky? All elektron machines have the same sequencer even if the newer ones get slightly improved. Not really true. The AR doesen't really even have a sequencer for external stuff (but audio triggering external drum modules should be possible through the individual outputs). The two analogs have a severly limited song mode compared to the three older ones.Polymetric sequencing is not possible on MD and MnM.The MD has no arpeggiator.Squencing chords is pretty much different on all machines.MD has 16 possible tracks for MIDI sequencing, the MnM has six, the OT eight. The A4 has four tracks for CV which pretty fast results in only two mono voices if you split the channels up in a traditional cv/gate function. as far as just midi sequencing external (midi) polyphonic synth gear, which Elektron do you think 'wins' ? OT or MnM? The ability to CC control and parameter lock the arpeggiator on the OT is what got me really interested, on my monomachine i use the arpeggiator a lot but its pretty static. Having the ability to automate it seems quite powerful and even a method of doing quasi generative sequences on it (without having to do some kind of work around like assigning a random LFO to a pitch of sound) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psn Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 as far as just midi sequencing external (midi) polyphonic synth gear, which Elektron do you think 'wins' ? OT or MnM? I've never tried an OT, so can't really comment on the details there. Entering chords is simple on the MnM, but one single track doesn't really sequence polyphonically. Since all notes of a chord share the same note on/off info it's rather paraphonic. But you can always use six channels for proper polyphonic sequencing, but it gets more cumbersome of course. Don't really know how this works on the OT, but I'm guessing it's not really proper polyphonic there either? In the way that an MPC is polyphonic I mean, where each single note has its own gating info. I like how you can build up contrapuntal stuff between say a bass line on one track and paraphonic riffs/chords on another track on the MnM. The pattern nudging is great for finding less intuitive rhythmic stuff with more emphasis on the syncopes. Using several MIDI tracks to sequence a monophonic synth is also cool, you can play around with unmuting the different tracks to mess up the riffs, make them denser, get slides, glitches, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweepstakes Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 as far as just midi sequencing external (midi) polyphonic synth gear, which Elektron do you think 'wins' ? OT or MnM? I've never tried an OT, so can't really comment on the details there. Entering chords is simple on the MnM, but one single track doesn't really sequence polyphonically. Since all notes of a chord share the same note on/off info it's rather paraphonic. But you can always use six channels for proper polyphonic sequencing, but it gets more cumbersome of course. Don't really know how this works on the OT, but I'm guessing it's not really proper polyphonic there either? In the way that an MPC is polyphonic I mean, where each single note has its own gating info. I like how you can build up contrapuntal stuff between say a bass line on one track and paraphonic riffs/chords on another track on the MnM. The pattern nudging is great for finding less intuitive rhythmic stuff with more emphasis on the syncopes. Using several MIDI tracks to sequence a monophonic synth is also cool, you can play around with unmuting the different tracks to mess up the riffs, make them denser, get slides, glitches, etc. I think the MnM wins in 2 places : program changes per-step, which the OT doesn't have, and big jazz-type chords, because you get so many notes per chord, whereas the OT can only play 4. Otherwise, the OT slays it. You can do chords in a somewhat more polyphonic way because you can control the length of the chord, which also lets you stagger/stack multiple chords. As mentioned the arpeggiator's parameters are lockable/modulatable which makes them a lot more dynamic, and the length of the arpeggio notes can be controlled independent of the length of the arpeggio/chord. Also you get 10 CCs instead of 4, and 2 more tracks/channels. Furthermore, you can trigger tracks independent of the master transport so that you can start a track on-the-fly, in the middle of the master sequence, either quantized or free playing, so that it becomes a sort of monophonic phrase sequencer. And another layer of icing on the cake is that these tracks can all have different "scale" settings, meaning both length and tempo-multiplier. So you can have a twiddly 14-step hi hat pattern playing at 2x speed alongside a sequence of big fat pads at 1/8 speed, so it's possible to get 32 bars for the price of 4. Oh, yeah, and microtiming, which overcomes one of the most annoying limitations of step sequencers. And don't forget the custom LFOs, of which you get 8 per scene on both the MIDI and audio side and can be used in lieu of slides/automation. On a not-OT-specific note, I concur that using multiple tracks to control a monosynth is a good time. I did a lot of stuff like this in 2012 muting/unmuting tracks on my MPC to vary basslines on my Shruthi-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thawkins Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Sorry for bringing up an old thread, but I figured this is better than to start a new one. Anyways like the OP I have been thinking about losing the laptop in favor of a sampler/multi-track sequencer. Currently I use Live for simple MIDI looping while the sound is generated by my Korg Micro-X. I use some Live effects and a drum rack, but that's something I hope the sampler part in the hardware will take care of. My list of requirements seems to be: 0) possibility to build a song through live looping, i.e. that the workflow does not require stopping playback to add new loops 1) realtime sequence recording to play melodies and then loop 2) polyrhythms, because often my melodies aren't equal length or have a different measure 3) some onboard sampling and effects would be nice, I also have a microphone and a bunch of percussion stuff to sample into tracks Reading this thread left me with two interesting options - one is the Korg ESX1SD, which seems to be a fun thing, however I don't really understand if I can sequence 9-10 tracks of MIDI and also have samples looping at the same time, and it doesn't seem it can do polyrhythms (however it has TUBES!). The other is the MPC 1000, which seems really impressive with 64 tracks and 32 channels of MIDI. Polyrhythms also seem to be possible with JJOS. And how easy is it to record a session to either of those? I mean after a long jam do you end up with something where you can press play and hear more or less all of it, happy mistakes and experimental twiddling with knobs included? Or is it that you have to consciously press record button before everything? On the other hand I could just spend some time to figure out a Live set where my laptop just sits on the side with the screen off while I turn the knobs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thawkins Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 There's also a Roland MC 808 on sale where I live, how does that compare to MPC1000 and can it do all the nifty things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRiP Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 There's also a Roland MC 808 on sale where I live, how does that compare to MPC1000 and can it do all the nifty things? I have a MC-505 - was a great starter groovebox/sequencer - but i never really used it as a master to control external synths - just used the internal patches and made songs 'inside' - however it is very capable to be a master for external gear - only problem (with the 505 anyway) is theres quite a bit of menu diving and setting up, and i'm not quite sure if you can save settings so that when you turn it off and on they stick - could be different with the MC808 tho! The 505 is rather rigid when it comes to playback - you usually just have to start the sequence fresh - not much launching clips like in ableton, you would either have to have a number of loops on separate channels which you can mute and un-mute (or fade in/out) - or you could pain painstakingly build the song bit by bit so it just plays back the same way every time I recently got a MPC 2500 but havn't had the time to properly dig into it - i'm hoping to use it instead of ableton for live stuff, most people i've talked to who own one or use it in a similar live set-up swears by them - so i'd say you'd be safer going down the MPC route (having said that, I dont really know much about the 1000, it may or may not be as capable as it's bigger brothers when it comes to live stuff, does it support JJOS?) Have you considered the Beatsteps? I've never used one but they seem to be pretty good for live gear improv stuff and if you're starting small with less gear it might be all you need - seems very immediate and quick to get ideas flowing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psn Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 I dont really know much about the 1000, it may or may not be as capable as it's bigger brothers when it comes to live stuff, does it support JJOS? An MPC1000 with JJOS becomes pretty much an MPC2500 (with less MIDI ports, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koolkeyZ865 Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 The Monomachine can be used as a pretty great sequencer + FX unit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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