oyster Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 I've been reading through this It's weird there is so much content in this man's legacy of work that strikes me as profound and beneficial, yet there is so much evidence that this man was a fraudulent fuckface. Is all this just Self Help bullshit with a mystical wrapper? Probably, but it sure is entertaining and even inspiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Z_B_Z Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 ive always steered clear of castaneda because of all the controversy.. read something a while back that made some pretty damning accusations.. i dont know, id rather just read terrance mckenna or daniel pinchbeck. although these days pinchbeck seems to be becoming a parody of himself.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest happycase Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 I like his work. It's entertaining and mind-expanding in that it brings the imagination to life, thus bringing much of what we've taken for granted back to life. I never open a book to look for Truth. And I try not to concern myself with inconsistencies in an artist's work and his/her personality. Most recent example... I watched Panda Bear interviews and feel totally turned off by his character, but I don't judge his music or lyrics. In fact, even judging his character is uncalled for. All I can really say is that he's boring in interview. And that's too much. I can only really say that I felt bored while watching his interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oyster Posted July 26, 2010 Author Share Posted July 26, 2010 I like his work. It's entertaining and mind-expanding in that it brings the imagination to life, thus bringing much of what we've taken for granted back to life. This is probably the best way to go about it. When I first got into his work at a younger age it was exciting and rejuvenating, it was almost like the freak version of discovering God or finding good old Jesus, then I learned more about him and his work and was completely alienated and turned off for a long time. 'Don't take things too seriously' is one of the most important life lessons, I do declare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 Total and utter fraud. It's like Ice Cube writing "Straight Outta Compton" while attending college in Arizona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest happycase Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 Total and utter fraud. It's like Ice Cube writing "Straight Outta Compton" while attending college in Arizona. Fraud or not, I think his message is that the world that we live in, which is a world of descriptions thumped into our minds from birth, is not the real world. I don't think this makes him undefinable, because you first have to buy into his premise... but I think the ideas are really useful in seeing that we are narrow-minded. "Fraud" is just a description. It doesn't say as much as we think it does. I'm sure frauds have something important to contribute. And we're all frauds in some sense. We're just not good enough at it to make money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oyster Posted July 26, 2010 Author Share Posted July 26, 2010 Hell, the 'Trickster' archetype calls for being a fraud and rumor has it those beings have got a lot of contribute to the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest happycase Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 Hell, the 'Trickster' archetype calls for being a fraud and rumor has it those beings have got a lot of contribute to the world Could you say more about that? I'm interested in archetypes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Z_B_Z Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 Total and utter fraud. It's like Ice Cube writing "Straight Outta Compton" while attending college in Arizona. Fraud or not, I think his message is that the world that we live in, which is a world of descriptions thumped into our minds from birth, is not the real world. I don't think this makes him undefinable, because you first have to buy into his premise... but I think the ideas are really useful in seeing that we are narrow-minded. "Fraud" is just a description. It doesn't say as much as we think it does. I'm sure frauds have something important to contribute. And we're all frauds in some sense. We're just not good enough at it to make money. seems like youre rationalizing his lack of integrity but whatever.. in any case, the ideas he espouses are hardly unique and can be found in just about every mystical/psychedelic text ever written.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oyster Posted July 26, 2010 Author Share Posted July 26, 2010 Hell, the 'Trickster' archetype calls for being a fraud and rumor has it those beings have got a lot of contribute to the world Could you say more about that? I'm interested in archetypes. Here, read this. I've always seen a frightening amount of 'me' in the trickster archetype but I guess that's the idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest happycase Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 Hell, the 'Trickster' archetype calls for being a fraud and rumor has it those beings have got a lot of contribute to the world Could you say more about that? I'm interested in archetypes. Here, read this. I've always seen a frightening amount of 'me' in the trickster archetype but I guess that's the idea My understanding is that every archetype has a light side and a shadow side, healthy and unhealthy embodiment. I like that you said the trickster archetype is the container. It seems like I 'possess' certain archetypes, but its really the other way around(?). Although I don't really understand what that means. To me its like the idea of a meme or an idea having a life of its own. Like "Allah" as some sort of virus that makes fundamentalists crazy and passionate and vengeful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest happycase Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 It's fucked up that Saddam Hussein was hung. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 Total and utter fraud. It's like Ice Cube writing "Straight Outta Compton" while attending college in Arizona. Fraud or not, I think his message is that the world that we live in, which is a world of descriptions thumped into our minds from birth, is not the real world. I don't think this makes him undefinable, because you first have to buy into his premise... but I think the ideas are really useful in seeing that we are narrow-minded. "Fraud" is just a description. It doesn't say as much as we think it does. I'm sure frauds have something important to contribute. And we're all frauds in some sense. We're just not good enough at it to make money. he presented his book as a serious ethnography, when he knowingly made shit up or plagiarised it. My favorite bit in the criticisms is this In the The Power and the Allegory, De Mille compared The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui way of Knowledge with Castaneda's library stack requests at the University of California. The stack requests documented that he was sitting in the library when his journal said he was squatting in don Juan's hut. One of the most memorable discoveries that De Mille made in his examination of the stack requests was that when Castaneda said he was participating in the traditional peyote ceremony—the least fantastic episode of drug use—he was not only sitting in the library, but he was reading someone else's description of their experience of the peyote ceremony. Other criticisms of Castaneda's work include the total lack of Yaqui vocabulary or terms for any of his experiences if he had simply written his book as a bit of existential fiction, it would have been great (as well as thought-provoking). As it is, the fraudulent method in which he presented it leads me to doubt his motives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oyster Posted July 26, 2010 Author Share Posted July 26, 2010 if he had simply written his book as a bit of existential fiction, it would have been great (as well as thought-provoking). As it is, the fraudulent method in which he presented it leads me to doubt his motives. Your motive doubting is certainly fair enough, the man essentially had a cult going, and really played about the whole 'omnipotent guru' thing. it's still around, in fact, 'Cleargreen' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpenprol Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 It's fucked up that Saddam Hussein was hung. yeah, sucks when evil dictators are well endowed, too. Now Kim Jong Il, that's fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oyster Posted July 26, 2010 Author Share Posted July 26, 2010 Hendrix fucked the cast of his own gigantic penis, did you know that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 Yeah but Kim Jong Il is a fashion leader and golfer par excellence http://www.france24.com/en/20100407-nkorea-leader-sets-world-fashion-trend-pyongyang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpenprol Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 Yeah but Kim Jong Il is a fashion leader and golfer par excellence http://www.france24.com/en/20100407-nkorea-leader-sets-world-fashion-trend-pyongyang lol and the Japanese prime minister has to quit over a tacky shirt. Sometimes life just ain't fair... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oyster Posted July 26, 2010 Author Share Posted July 26, 2010 One day, Coyote was walking along. The sun was shining brightly, and Coyote felt very hot. "I would like a cloud," Coyote said. So a cloud came and made some shade for Coyote. Coyote was not satisfied. "I would like more clouds," he said. More clouds came along, and the sky began to look very stormy. But Coyote was still hot. "How about some rain," said Coyote. The clouds began to sprinkle rain on Coyote. "More rain," Coyote demanded. The rain became a downpour. "I would like a creek to put my feet in," said Coyote. So a creek sprang up beside him, and Coyote walked in it to cool off his feet. "It should be deeper," said Coyote. The creek became a huge, swirling river. Coyote was swept over and over by the water. Finally, nearly drowned, Coyote was thrown up on the bank far away. When he woke up, the buzzards were watching him, trying to decide if he was dead. "I'm not dead," Coyote told them, and they flew away. That is how the Columbia River began. Jeez what a fucking shit story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capsaicin Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 Castaneda has his moments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest happycase Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 The North Korean leader's modest-looking suits have gripped people's imagination and become a global vogue, Pyongyang's official website has said. The trademark suit sported by North Korean leader Kim Jong-Il, seen here in September 2009, is now in fashion worldwide thanks to his greatness, Pyongyang's official website says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest A/D Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 i think there's truth in castaneda's work the same way there's truth in a good novel. i enjoy the don juan character's thoughts on life; i don't mind how he came to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest skibby Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 it is remarkable to live a full life and only have a handful of enemies who badmouth you. oh and about demille, the guy who made a career out of trying to bring an author down:https://archive.org/stream/Castaneda-DebunkingDeMille/Castaneda-DebunkingDeMille_djvu.txt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 i like his books, but I only know he lied because he did, not because of any 'debunking' book. In Tales of Don Juan many of the 'effects' he describes from the drug experiences sound completely made up as well as several incorrect preparations of drugs that would have been technically inert (unless giving Carlos the benefit of the doubt, if don juan was a real person he could lied about what he was giving carlos). If i remember correctly Castaneda describes 'smoking psilocybin' several times with amazingly psychedelic results, which actually in real life produces zero effect. I don't even think smoking amanita muscaria mushrooms has any effect either. since his books are filled with very similar other questionable things, its hard for me to believe he was just misremembering or being mislead about what drugs he ingested. They are good books though, but I read them as just interesting fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peace 7 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Just take acid. Why experience regurgitations when you can experience It first hand? The answer is laziness. The solution, is dropping. And I mean dropping hard, like ceremoniously slowly setting a sheet of blotter on your tongue, closing your eyes, relaxing in your chair/bed of choice, and be brave by Letting Go, Forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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