mcbpete Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 I see it as your clip view being like a sketch pad, trying different combinations of sounds to see what works together making a rough version of the track. Then you can drag those clips to the arrangement view to make the final track Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryancolecreate Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 I think Numerology really get the "clip view" vs "arrange" perfect. There are presets "clips" which can be played in any order, triggered from a controller etc. and then there is the arrange timeline, which lets you sequence out those clips in time. You can even record a performance of clips to the timeline in realtime. :) Once you have a sequence in the timeline you can switch it on and off to have it take effect or not. This is awesome as you can build up tracks w/ presets, and then lay out the rough skeleton in one go by improvisation. Go back and clean it up, then bounce out stems to mix down in Reaper or what ever DAW you use. PERFECT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audioblysk Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 lol dry beans your manic reaction is amusing. also what's this about arrangement view in ableton being crap? are you mad?? I personally have a hard time transitioning to arrangement mode on live for more complicated things. It's probably more of an effort thing, but it's a pain in the ass to do some things in arrangement mode and sometimes my copy of live 9.1 crashes while trying to make automations during playback in arrangement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Reggae Lee Bowyer Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I've been using bitwig for the last few days and I think I'm going to switch to this. Ableton always gives me moments of hang time and crashes quite easily. Bitwig has been a lot more solid in that regard and it's damn fast at just about everything. It doesn't seem to need any time to load or save anything. It's very noticeable.To compare it with ableton I took a 30 track ableton project with a lot of processing and some heavyweight plugins. I saved all the midi files, plugin presets etc and took notes on all pan positions, levels and the rest so that I could recreate the same project exactly in bitwig. That took a lot of time but mostly on the ableton end. The bitwig interface is so nice to work with. Once you've spent some time to get to grips with all of the view options and shortcuts, it's a pleasure. I found very noticeable performance differences between the project in ableton and bitwig. It takes me about 35 seconds to launch ableton and have that project loaded and ready to press play. In bitwig it takes me 7 seconds. That's from nothing to launching the daw and hearing the song. Mixdowns are faster, loading samples and vsts are faster and everything is just instant for me on bitwig. That makes a big difference for me. It makes me feel as though the daw is working with me. Ableton often feels as though it fights me. I should also mention that my cpu runs a few degrees cooler with the the same project in bitwig. I don't know why. Most importantly though, I can hear a noticeable difference. There just seems to be more clarity in bitwig. It's not coloring the sound but it's clearer. Ableton sounds a little mushy in comparison. Again I don't know why. After a few days working in bitwig I opened up ableton again and just thought urgh no and closed it again after a very short time. It felt laggy and the interface just wasn't as friendly. The inspector panel on bitwig is really nice. I find myself using it a lot and it quickly became a natural part of my workflow. The modulation system is very nice too. Personally I'm a little fed up of this recent obsession with modulation. It often feels overused and like everyone is trying to make me dizzy for no good reason other than to be a little tricky dicky. When you watch the lottery and you see all the balls in the big dome flying around at random, that's how a lot of mixes I hear appear to me. However, good, appropriate use of modulation is a beautiful thing and bitwig handles it really fucking well. It's easy and fun to play with. There are some key features missing though. Most of them don't really affect my style of composing but no multi channel vst support and lack of midi routing options are upsetting. Really that is a big let down but this is version 1 and they should be applauded for how much they have nailed down right off the bat. I think bitwig is what ableton 9 should have been but I guess it's easier to implement some nice ideas when it doesn't involve rewriting huge chunks of your code from the ground up. This is where I see bitwig eventually taking over. It's going to take them a few updates and maybe a couple of versions down the line but it's set up nicely to expand upon. I remember reading some stuff a while back from the ableton team regarding frequent feature requests and how they were almost impossible at this stage because it would require such massive rewrites of everything. Kinda like they dug themselves a bit of a hole in the early versions. I imagine most long established software has these kinds of limitations. I hope the bitwig team have been smart and forward thinking in writing this software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryancolecreate Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 ya bitwig definitely has the advantage of being able to build on Ableton's mistakes. lol dry beans your manic reaction is amusing. Sorry. :D My designers OCD forbids me from overlooking bad design decisions. In comparison with the rest of the digital world UX design in music and audio apps is SHIT. I don't know why. I think that the people running these projects have just siloed themselves up against all the developments and knowledge gained in UI and UX design in the last 5 years. They are very much behind in that regard from web and mobile app development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbpete Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Just seen the official launch video (as in this one) - Kinda wish I hadn't - That note/paramater editor just looks incredible, spent so much on Ableton over the last year so switching absolutely isn't an option. Hopefully this gives the Ableton guys a much needed kick up the backside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o00o Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I still prefer Logic X. There is nothing in Bitwig Studio that makes me want to switch. Going to give it some more tries but I am pretty sure there will be no difference next time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbpete Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I think I've got enough note entry systems in Ableton to tide me over for a little while though - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o00o Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 wow I wanna listen to that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spunktronics Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 no multi channel vst support I'm out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Toffer Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I think I've got enough note entry systems in Ableton to tide me over for a little while though - Whats that tracker interface callled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbpete Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 reViSiT ( http://revisit.info/ ) - it's a little fiddly to get it to output midi and to sync with the playback, but hell it's free! (there is a paid version that has multiple channel output and lots of other features and is currently only 25 quid !) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plastic Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 reViSiT ( http://revisit.info/ ) - it's a little fiddly to get it to output midi and to sync with the playback, but hell it's free! (there is a paid version that has multiple channel output and lots of other features and is currently only 25 quid !) How do you like MaxScore? I tried the demo once, not very in depth, and it seemed kinda hard to use/cpu intensive as hell. I really want a scoring option for Live, but that thing just doesn't look too fun right off the bat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbpete Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Not used it too much yet but not noticed much in the way of CPU spiking (it's a little bit buggy in note entry though - maybe I'm just not using it right). I've only really used it to spit out midi data to create Ableton clips using conventional notation methods (though in the example above I converted a clip into a score - hence the complete mess of notes on the score !) Seems to get updated moderately regularly though and the support from the authors is first rate (had a query on workflow and they came straight back to be with step by step advice) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryancolecreate Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 You making black midi again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest skibby Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 i got bitwig to make noise, and the plugins included sound great. they do have some sort of magic or wrongness to them, but in a good way. hell, maybe they're just great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fiznuthian Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Not sure if people have forgotten about Bitwig already, but hot damn this DAW has a lot going for it and it's only just now releasing beta 1.1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest skibby Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 whats up with Bitwig lately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fiznuthian Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 whats up with Bitwig lately? They've added more modulation devices that you can use in chains.. They're cleaning up the UI a bit already, although it looks quite nice. They have expanded the midi routing options as requested by a lot of users.. I've been toying with a cracked copy of bitwig 1.0.15 for weeks now and all I can say is this DAW is fucking amazing already and unbelievably solid for a version 1 beta. Some stuff I love about it: Being able to use devices in the DAW to modulate damn near ANY parameter in device chains.. which leads me to 2: The visual feedback from animated modulations is amazing. I love playing my instruments and watching the parameters slide, rotate, fade, etc.. It's beautiful and something I think should be in every DAW. Highly configurable views.. Being able to see both the clip view and arrangement view at the same time is awesome. Watching the clips animate as your arrangement plays is also really useful. Simple hotkeys enable/disable the edit views (piano roll and automation lane), device chain, and mixer. You can disable all the views and turn bitwig into one giant mixer on the screen too. They pretty much covered it all. Layered editing. Because bitwig can accept both audio and midi into the same track (turns it into a "hybrid" track) you can create photoshop-esque layers that turn on and out. When editing them they actually layer visually on top of eachother. This is cool for taking a drum loop or melody with audio transients and programming notes over them. This make sense? As far as I know no other DAW allows this kind of editing.. It's fast.. On my gaming rig Bitwig 1.0 runs much, much faster than Ableton and it's audio engine somehow has very little latency out of the box. I don't even have to use ASIO4ALL anymore to reduce audio latency for playing notes on my keyboard. Inspector panel. It shows up on the left when you click things like notes and clips and gives you a centralized place to edit parameters. It also has a "histogram" that show a graphical spread of parameter values which you can add variation to using mean, chaos (randomize?), and spread. It's like a more advanced humanize function I guess but works great for adding variation to note parameters. Inspector panel is very useful. Automation works great. You can freedraw automation with pen tool or drag curves or whatever. Pretty typical but it works perfect. Stacking automation lanes is cool too. The devs are supposedly adding some features to this to make things easier with VSTs. Oh, and micro-pitch editing! I don't know how to describe this so here (@ approx 2:52): http://youtu.be/hBU_IDrSgEE?t=2m52s Bitwig's instruments are nice! I will admit they are not as mature as the instruments in Logic or Live yet, but the polysynth and FM4 are neat little machines. The drum synths have great sounds. Bitwig has containers like Live too, but they added a bunch of tools for routing effects, morphing, multiband FX, etc.. Consider this is still version 1 i'm pretty amazed at how much stuff they have created to play with. Overall Bitwig seems like it's going to be a very amazing DAW in the near future. IMO it's already fantastic and has a lot of unique things going for it. I'm saving some cash to buy it soon so I can ride the update train through beta, but for now i'm just toying with version 1 still. There's lots to explore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logakght Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 4. Layered editing. Because bitwig can accept both audio and midi into the same track (turns it into a "hybrid" track) you can create photoshop-esque layers that turn on and out. When editing them they actually layer visually on top of eachother. This is cool for taking a drum loop or melody with audio transients and programming notes over them. This make sense? As far as I know no other DAW allows this kind of editing.. sounds neat. But, like we all know, Ableton is the main competitor here... Why should I start using Bitwig instead of Live? (Imagine you're a Bitwig marketer ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fiznuthian Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 4. Layered editing. Because bitwig can accept both audio and midi into the same track (turns it into a "hybrid" track) you can create photoshop-esque layers that turn on and out. When editing them they actually layer visually on top of eachother. This is cool for taking a drum loop or melody with audio transients and programming notes over them. This make sense? As far as I know no other DAW allows this kind of editing.. sounds neat. But, like we all know, Ableton is the main competitor here... Why should I start using Bitwig instead of Live? (Imagine you're a Bitwig marketer ;) Hmm. :) For me, I just find Bitwig more interesting and playful. The more I think about it, the more I think despite clips and arrangement, not too much else is all that similar. Bitwig offers a lot of routing and modulation options in a very intuitive, often visual way. Building device chains feels more like a playground to me because of how Bitwig nests devices. It took me a bit, but i've come to really like their idea for how to input midi notes and the ways you can manipulate them. Bitwig as a program feels a lot more modular in display than Live, allowing a lot of customization. It has a large collection of very, very nice devices already and they are only going to create and refine more of them. There's a lot more things unique to Bitwig already and the development appears rapid. The devs are paying close attention to community requests for features and fixes. Always a good sign. :) Overall despite first glance, it's still a much different DAW than Live I think. I hope it thrives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fiznuthian Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 crazy [youtubehd]MCkAkqdBXe4[/youtubehd] i'm buying it tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbpete Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 That's real nice - I'm sure there's a Max4Live equivalent somewhere, but to do it natively and so easily is definitely a cracking feature. If I hadn't bought Ableton back when I did I really would've been tempted by this ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entropi Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Bitwig Studio would need Ableton Live's easy and flexible midi mapping before I bother to look at it... I've seen that there's "scripts" for controllers, but then it's just like reason - to freely map what ever you want is one of Live's greatest strengths, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fiznuthian Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Yeah, i'm really excited about it. I was reading today that Bitwig has been developed as one big modular framework with a back end and front end. What you see now is just the front-end and it's resulting devices, effects, etc.. The devs are working on plans to unleash the back end modular system and let people go wild with it Reaktor style. They also are working on a way to collaborate with two running copies of Bitwig over a network connection in sync. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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