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#1751 pattern recognition

pattern recognition

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:21 AM

i've just purchased eps 1991-2002 off itunes, mainly because of this thread.  you both seem like great dudes, and i love your reverence for all things depeche mode, particularly the alan wilder years.  they were pretty much my life mid to late '80s.

 

i figured i'd start at the beginning with ae.  with such a varied catalog, is this the recommended way to proceed into it?

 

what are your favorite DM remixes/12" singles, from that alan wilder period?

 

thanks for this, brilliant thread.

:beer:

 

also, it seems you were well into hip hop in the '80s, any thoughts on the native tongues collective?


Edited by pattern recognition, 05 November 2013 - 07:22 AM.


#1752 Jev

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:23 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sean, Rob,

 

when composing do you find it easier and more spot-on to do it live by pressing pads and keys and turning knobs or you prefer editing in DAW by mouse? I know you jam a lot but when you need to get some part of a track right after it was already put in sequence what would you do?

 

I mean, for example when I do some ambient pads composition I am often completely unable to do the tempo and dynamics to feel right. But when I play it live it turns out mostly in what I wanted it to be (which is not the case when trying to do those things with mouse). Also when dealing with the whole track structure (here is a "chorus/climax", here gradation here it stops and so on) I also find it much more intuitive and natural to do it live than sequencing it step by step. Editing is of course inevitable after that most of the time but you know what I mean.

 

yeah i think the screen gets in the way

the sequencers that we build ourselves don't have much visual feedback at all, fwiw

 

 

So you have made your sequencers and mapped it to midi controllers and control it hands on? I mean I don't mind screen that much, the mouse is the problem most of the time when composing.

 

I mind screen when mixing, so I turn it off often when making judgement but can't do completely without it - and closing my eyes does not work for me because I feel like I am concentrating too much and lot of other thoughts comes almost instantly :-)

 

 

well kind of yeah, our own seqs have varying degrees of control, and we sometimes use midi input to alter params (the seq is doing the actual pattern gen but might have some variables)

the mixing aspect is entirely controllable usually, altho it can be automated

 

only time i use a screen really is to check things like position or whether a param is on that i'm not on the right page for with my interface, or when i'm editing, which is later and obv requires a screen

 

 

I see. So you use something similar like Mackie Control Universal Pro for mixing? I am thinking about such interface for mixing but I can't really imagine controlling EQ and compression with it if resolution of knobs (or steps) isn't good and flexible enough. And neither I want to use hardware processors for this as I see them as a pain to use with 40 + tracks.

 

 

nah i'm using a kenton killamix mini atm

i only have 8 channels running usually

 

but i also have a bcr2000 here for bigger tasks

 

Hm, that leads me to a possibility I am not very economic with my projects' housekeeping (track count, number of FX etc.). So you are completely able to do EQ and compression stuff with killamix? Is it sending midi or something with better resolution? Or are you doing just rough adjustments to processors and then do more polishing with mouse?

 

I am sorry if I am asking something really boring and basic.

 

 

yeah the killamix is just for setting things quickly, we have finer control on screen  - and internally (there's a fair degree of self-management going on using conditionals)

 

 

Cool. I have my music style quite sorted after those few years in terms what I want to do and achieve but this technical/organization aspect of things is really work in progress for me as I did not put a lot of attention to it until I realized it really affects quality of my production.

 

Thanks, Sean.



#1753 Sean Ae

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:23 AM

 

 

Have you come across any praiseworthy modern 'academic' computer music? Any recommendations? 

not for ages

think the last thing i really liked that could really be described as academic was a horacio vaggionne thing in like 2003 but i can't even rem the name of it

was on GRM anyway

 

 

Ah ok...i can't find any myself either... i thought it was me. Thnx!

 

 

IMO the biggest mistake of the academic world in what they do is degrading music to the level of scientific thought (as 'knowledge' in the narrow sense - just what’s measurable is valid, being method or cognition).

I understand that they are pushing some ideas and methods but also refuse to understand how human beings and music work on non-intellectual levels. I don't think things gonna change any time soon regarding this.

 

 

yeah it's ironic that most of the best composers in that area were actually blagging it a fair bit (parmegiani comes to mind) and were really doing their own thing, but had to present it as though it were a lot more conceptually simple in order to get it listened to or funded

 

i mean these places are basically ruled by stuffy old men with huge egos, it's not so much about the academia itself more about the way people inhabit these kinds of institutions imo



#1754 jasondonervan

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:23 AM

 

Along with JJOS, did you trick out your MPC1000 with the improved pads modification? Seeing how the original pads are supposed to go dead pretty quickly, just wondering how much of a consideration accurate velocity interaction via the MPC hardware is to you.. if at all  :wink:

for the most part i would fit single replacements in, i have the very 1st model, not pad grid mod. but i like the full level to get timed events into the system so velocity isn't my main concern at those times.

 

 

Cheers. Glad to know I'm not the only one saddled with *that* colour scheme!



#1755 Sean Ae

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:25 AM

are you at all interested in sound installation work?

 

given your heavy max backgrounds, have you ever tried your hand at doing this sort of thing?

 

not really

i know that's how a lot of people use max but it's not why we got into it

max has a pretty diverse userbase, a lot of people with very specific requirements



#1756 phling

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:26 AM

 

 

 

 

What advice would you give a class of 5th graders in regards to pushing creativity in an ever-more regimented public school environment?

(This is a constant struggle of mine.)

 
ok so i'm from the uk and we don't have graders here, how old is that?
also i assume by public school you mean a school for the public (cos that's not what that means here)

 


About 11 or 12 years old. Public, as in freely available school for students of any socioeconomic status.

I'm sure you've grown up in some sort of oppressive system/era...how did you cope as an 11 year old?

 

 
tbh i kind of lost faith in school around that age, i rem my science teacher saying that atoms were the smallest thing and i was going what about protons neutrons and electrons and he said 'ah i don't need to teach you about them' and i said 'well i could do your job then'
that's the same age when i really got into music, it kind of filled the void for me having mates asking me for mixtapes so i just kind of went with that

 

 

 

"the Elektrons", do you still use them a lot? Sounds like they are used on Exai, but more heavily processed than on earlier material?

nah they've been in a box since the quaristice gigs

 

apologies if it seems OCD or pointless coming back to this, but most of my dev revolves around Elektron gear so it's simply a topic that interests me more than just tangentially...

in Fleure @ ca. 3:59 there is a single 'knock' sound which sounds pretty much like a snare sound in the Perlences, most notably in Perlence Subrange 3, which very much sounds like it's the TRX clap from the Machinedrum. this was actually discussed in the forum, kind of a single percussion hit reaching back to Quaristice:
 

yes i was referring to the trx-clap from the elektron machinedrum, which is the source of this sound. but maybe it can also be done using a tomato in a closet.


is this intentional? is it the TRX clap? is the hit in Fleure sampled from earlier material then, or a different sound source which just sounds like it by chance?

the clap:

 

no its not anything elektron, its a sound taken from a recording using JJOS on MPC1K to smash another custom sound around. then smashed around on an MPC1K using JJOS.

 

 
lol yeah it is u melon

 

 
lol  :emotawesomepm9:

 



lael
 



#1757 Rob Ae

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:28 AM

sorry for asking it again, but you are the 2 single person on earth i can ask this  :

we r are why, 33 or 45 ? 

 

do we tell him? her?



#1758 Sean Ae

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:30 AM

i've just purchased eps 1991-2002 off itunes, mainly because of this thread.  you both seem like great dudes, and i love your reverence for all things depeche mode, particularly the alan wilder years.  they were pretty much my life mid to late '80s.

 

i figured i'd start at the beginning with ae.  with such a varied catalog, is this the recommended way to proceed into it?

 

what are your favorite DM remixes/12" singles, from that alan wilder period?

 

thanks for this, brilliant thread.

:beer:

 

also, it seems you were well into hip hop in the '80s, any thoughts on the native tongues collective?

 

breathing in fumes

leave in silence longer

the end of the 12" of love in itself

see you extended mix

now this is fun extended mix

in your memory slick mix

every mix of fly on the windscreen

 

i mean shit, there are so many things

 

native tongues was slightly after my time in a way, there was a brief spell where i wasn't listening to much hip hop cos the emphasis and audience had moved to a place i didn't recognise

i got back into it when wu showed up


 

sorry for asking it again, but you are the 2 single person on earth i can ask this  :

we r are why, 33 or 45 ? 

 

do we tell him? her?

 

 

i think our original intention to not write it on the record should be honoured



#1759 soundwave

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:31 AM

I'm terrible for getting lost with spending too much time tweaking and not finishing anything.
How do you guys balance sound exploration with getting things finished or knowing when to move on if your overdoing things or being counter productive?

#1760 Sean Ae

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:34 AM

I'm terrible for getting lost with spending too much time tweaking and not finishing anything.
How do you guys balance sound exploration with getting things finished or knowing when to move on if your overdoing things or being counter productive?

 

i think partly cos we don't work in the same stages that a lot of other producers seem to

ie, writing, recording mixing

it's all jumbled up for us



#1761 mcbpete

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:38 AM

jeez, Joyrex! can someone point me to the 'kill spellchecker' switch we're autechre FFS, we don't spell anything like this.

If you click the 'light switch' button in the top left of the posting window (BBCode Mode if you hover over the icon), it switches to the old mode where you can properly see all the tags used - I don't think this mode cares about spelling.

#1762 Sean Ae

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:41 AM

To be fair.... I'd be dead happy if you just said Hello to me? I've got no smart or relevant questions or input.... 

 

hello



#1763 rd1994

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:45 AM

what way do you prefer your music to be heard (vinyl, CD or mp3?)
what made you decide to split Dial/CapIV into two tracks?

also is CapIV comparable to a version titling similar to draft 7.30?



#1764 mcbpete

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:45 AM

Did you ever go to Jive Turkey ?



#1765 Sean Ae

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:47 AM

I apologize for my English in advance.

Before I come to my question I have to explain some things that you know where I coming from, please bear with me...what I'm actually asking...

 

 

Avoiding fancy philosophical terms (just cause I’m ignorant actually), lets assume that Reality is something that really exists outside our minds and that is the reality that we discover and upgrade (for example, through science, art, dreams and daily contemplation), and that our personal truth is only our personal interpretation of the Reality. Therefore people would differentiate in levels of objectivity and genius in art is nothing but the highest level of objectivity in the interpretation of the reality with an ability to convert it in consumable form of art. What helps this artist to achieve that highest level is comprehension/ cognition/ of the reality as parts of things and ideas separate from himself in every sense, and as such they can be viewed objectively, and then he can cognize them freely by unconscious reasoning and conscious recognition as ‘true’ .... He feels/knows that there is something worthwhile and follows it to see where it will lead him. It is desire for knowledge and thirst for the truth that push him, and he would not have required motivation if he doesn’t believe that the reality is ‘pretty’ and interesting, like a fractal.

Furthermore he/they can name a project Autechre which is also seen as something separate from him/them or at least as an intersection halfway between Reality and his/their own personality/subjectivity. When the artist comes to this intersection he brings to the table things like: psychological openness to knowledge, intellectual ability, lateral horizon of ideas (the main requirement of creativity) , taste / aesthetic preferences, morality (yes, I do think so) , perseverance, diligence , precision, technical skills, time, money, etc…but gains more of the objectivity as an award so he can enjoy the reality even more. It’s a feedback loop actually IMO. That's why genius has the most benefit from his ingenuity... He knows it when he sees it. 

Today, all call for relativism and subjectivity like it’s the holly grail of in cognition. Less and less ppl believe in One Objective Reality. Everyone just wants to selfishly ‘‘Express themselves’’ but have not much to show ... if they have they wouldn’t want it. This is also a feedback loop. Someone upstairs have a great sense of humor I guess…

I know that not everybody has all the ability but I'm actually talking about morality in art. One can only resonate with what he is. 

The only artist i could compare you to is Beethoven, lots of reasons (the only artist i love more than you guys [sorry, sorry]). Non could beat him in morality.

Interestingly, Beethoven was the first romantic, one could ask how romanticism can be 'objective', especially him? It's not music that has to be objective at first IMO but the composer behind it and you'll see objectivity in the music eventually. Big subject, could wright for days. Sorry for this... i feel like a total dush ...

 

Question:

Do you think that tilting in favor of the objectivity in oppose to focusing on self- expression stripped of Reality is possible to be the norm again (as it was in time of classicism) and should it? 

I don't assume it should be black or white but still in general… what are your thoughts about it?

 

 

i don't think about it too much tbh

it seems like both of these states (objective/subjective) are impossible to achieve, and really we are all some combination of the two



#1766 jules

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:47 AM

a lot of the art in my office has a typography theme. would you say this wall fits right in?

 

20t1p41.jpg


Edited by jules, 05 November 2013 - 07:47 AM.


#1767 Sean Ae

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:48 AM

Did you ever go to Jive Turkey ?

 

nah we were in manchester then

and i was only 16 in 88 and looked even younger, i couldn't even get into a lot of places



#1768 rd1994

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:49 AM

hi there
multiple questions, again (I think some of them have been overlooked
1.have you heard of atmogen? It is for PC (I don't know if also for mac) its a bit like metasynth? ever heard/ worked with it?
2.(okay maybe its sort of two questions meshed into one) there is autechre tracktiles wiki that tries to figure out what lies behind the naming of autechre tracks? Are that father from the truth than they think and why don't you give us some insight into that
4.what way do you prefer your music to be heard (vinyl, CD or mp3?)
5.what made you decide to split Dial/CapIV into two tracks?

also is CapIV comparable to a version titling similar to draft 7.30?



#1769 Sean Ae

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:49 AM

a lot of the art in my office has a typography theme. would you say this wall fits right in?

 

20t1p41.jpg

 

oh that's nice



#1770 Sean Ae

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:52 AM

hi there
multiple questions, again (I think some of them have been overlooked
1.have you heard of atmogen? It is for PC (I don't know if also for mac) its a bit like metasynth? ever heard/ worked with it?
2.(okay maybe its sort of two questions meshed into one) there is autechre tracktiles wiki that tries to figure out what lies behind the naming of autechre tracks? Are that father from the truth than they think and why don't you give us some insight into that
4.what way do you prefer your music to be heard (vinyl, CD or mp3?)
5.what made you decide to split Dial/CapIV into two tracks?

also is CapIV comparable to a version titling similar to draft 7.30?

 

1. no

2. some of them are accurate, some are way off. no clues, sorry

3. oh there is no 3

4. wav, cd or vinyl

5. they were always two tracks, we didn't split anything

 

no, it means something specific (refers to a vocal sample in the track)



#1771 olo

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:57 AM

Man, you guys still kicking it on here eh. Truly good show.

Got some random questions for your discretion...

 

- Disco Volante or California?

- Breaking Bad: Last 10min of "Crawl Space" or "Ozymandias" for series best?

- Coke or Pepsi?

- Kool Moe Dee or Busy Bee?

- Spoonie Gee Love Rap best drum sample in Hip Hop history? I said it amen break.

Boxers, briefs, thong or commando?

- Decker - Replicant or human?

- Are we being trolled like a motherfucker with this thread?

- Money, can you guys bum me some? I had to ask. ;)

 

Thanks again guys.



#1772 Rob Ae

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:58 AM

Did you ever go to Jive Turkey ?

ah no we got there too late for that,

 

nice to see the faces though, winston, nightmares, very much a more easy going than manchester vibe. but pretty much same music scene for hip hop, soul and house. 



#1773 rd1994

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:58 AM

 

hi there
multiple questions, again (I think some of them have been overlooked
1.have you heard of atmogen? It is for PC (I don't know if also for mac) its a bit like metasynth? ever heard/ worked with it?
2.(okay maybe its sort of two questions meshed into one) there is autechre tracktiles wiki that tries to figure out what lies behind the naming of autechre tracks? Are that father from the truth than they think and why don't you give us some insight into that
4.what way do you prefer your music to be heard (vinyl, CD or mp3?)
5.what made you decide to split Dial/CapIV into two tracks?

also is CapIV comparable to a version titling similar to draft 7.30?

 

1. no

2. some of them are accurate, some are way off. no clues, sorry

3. oh there is no 3

4. wav, cd or vinyl

5. they were always two tracks, we didn't split anything

 

no, it means something specific (refers to a vocal sample in the track)

 

to 5 ..well I just thought that because 2 and three seem to go together its like 1 track split in two parts? or were they created seperately and they just seemed to fit?

btw I can really recommend atmogen ...again it works from the spectrogram side of the music...you can draw the sounds so to speak...if done right it sounds wicked and you get some VERY nice sounds (I use it quite often just for that)



#1774 jules

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:59 AM


 

a lot of the art in my office has a typography theme. would you say this wall fits right in?

 

20t1p41.jpg

 

oh that's nice

 

 

ha thanks. i have thought about getting another set so i could do the backsides of all them but the idea of lining 8 up exactly on the wall sets my ocd off.

 

i was thinking exai art was a typography exercise. amirite?



#1775 YELLOW

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:59 AM

What did you guys think of the new boards of canada promotion/record?



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