Using P2P, TORRENTS, FTPs for sharing music. Is it 'wrong'? - what say you?

[pcock]

It's getting hot in here.

 

I took off all my clothes.

 

Really though, I just spent $70 I didn't actually have to import and obtain Yagya's newest album on triple-colored-vinyl. TAKE THAT, PIRACY!

that is a truly delightful album though.

[Guest HokusPoker]

Eugene, saying that these people have more money than you have and because of that you don't want to pay them anything, is just insane. I don't even want to give reasons.

 

Also listen to Drukqs and imagine RDJ not spending days and weeks on not only coming up with a complex composition and great melodies, but also with playing with settings, instruments, samples etc. You cannot have that complexity and unique sound by simply using default settings in Fruity Loops. And in order to get your idea across exactly the way it is in your head, what you WANT it to be rather than what you're able to achieve with your instruments/software, you need to see through the settings and just know that in order to achieve that certain texture you're looking for you need to turn that knob by 10 degrees. You cannot do that unless you've spent years burying your head in software and hardware. It's like a musician thinking of a melody and playing it rather than thinking of his fingers and what to do with them.

There's this quote by somebody: “Art is 1% inspiration and 99% transpiration”. I don't fully agree with it, sometimes the opposite ratio is fine too, but creating art is work to a huge extent.

And I don't think you'll hear the following excuse often when asking a band why album X turned out badly: “Well, the record company gave us too much time”.

Time does not equal quality, but there's a considerable correlation I'm 100% sure.

[eugene]

Eugene, saying that these people have more money than you have and because of that you don't want to pay them anything, is just insane. I don't even want to give reasons.

 

Also listen to Drukqs and imagine RDJ not spending days and weeks on not only coming up with a complex composition and great melodies, but also with playing with settings, instruments, samples etc. You cannot have that complexity and unique sound by simply using default settings in Fruity Loops. And in order to get your idea across exactly the way it is in your head, what you WANT it to be rather than what you're able to achieve with your instruments/software, you need to see through the settings and just know that in order to achieve that certain texture you're looking for you need to turn that knob by 10 degrees. You cannot do that unless you've spent years burying your head in software and hardware. It's like a musician thinking of a melody and playing it rather than thinking of his fingers and what to do with them.

There's this quote by somebody: “Art is 1% inspiration and 99% transpiration”. I don't fully agree with it, sometimes the opposite ratio is fine too, but creating art is work to a huge extent.

And I don't think you'll hear the following excuse often when asking a band why album X turned out badly: “Well, the record company gave us too much time”.

Time does not equal quality, but there's a considerable correlation I'm 100% sure.

no it actually does make sense in not wanting give pretty rich people more money if you're kinda poor yourself, so you might as well do give those reasons if you want to have some sort of a dialogue.

 

it's probably the 5th time im trying to get this point across but here goes: is it possible that aphex would make a genius album of piano pieces like avril 14th? yes, quite possible, and it wouldn't require that time consuming tinkering. so what we have is that aphex had some ideas that according to you took some time to realize, but that's just what happened, it doesn't mean it's a law of nature of some sort. we don't know what kind of music he would come up with if he didn't have the time to do drukqs, it could be 50 times better than druqks of 50 times worse, and there's absolutely no way you can predict it. relying on past examples doesn't resolve this philosophical point. and of course that quote is complete bullshit because you can easily find genius stuff that's technically very simple and was made in short periods of time. if you don't realize that then we really have nothing to talk about.

[luke viia]

it just fucking kills me every time, this audacity to actually pretend to know something and demand some changes about things you have close to zero understanding.

 

i'm above else only in a sense that i realize my limitations and try not to talk stupid shit about things i'm not educated on.

 

[Alcofribas]

 

it just fucking kills me every time, this audacity to actually pretend to know something and demand some changes about things you have close to zero understanding.

 

i'm above else only in a sense that i realize my limitations and try not to talk stupid shit about things i'm not educated on.

 

that's poetry brother.

 

I'm glad we have humble people who are so thoroughly educated on music, capitalism, philosophy of work, etc that act as watmm's intellectual vanguard on such topics. I'm going to print this topic and study it.

 

such deep

 

music no work

 

transcendental

 

bro-to-bro

 

none reading comprehension

 

wow

[eugene]

awww, so smart, so snarky, so luke

 

 

wait, but it's actually fucking stupid beacuse i don't even refer (or pretend) to any kind of specified, deep knowledge in the whole thread but rely on some simple commonsensical facts for the sake of pretty harmless discussion about ideals for music releasing.

[luke viia]

just holding you to your own standards, dickbutt.

[eugene]

just holding you to your own standards, dickbutt.

yes, i totally need to enroll into 10 year music industry study program to learn that time doesn't necessarily lead to music quality.

are you just desperate to stick it me somehow that you cling to some half baked attempts to pinpoint some contradictions in my arguments in various thread (of which there are obviously none) ?

[luke viia]

No, I just discovered a while ago that while it's useless to have a serious discussion with you, it is very much worthwhile to aggravate you with your own words. So easy, too.

[eugene]

what makes you think that it aggravates me exactly ? you post some stupid shit, i point out that it's stupid and then you proceed to say "haha ! look how i made eugene angry you guys !" it seems to me that you simply display your own lack of sense of humor and banality with those posts.

[luke viia]

My apologies. I'll exclude you from your own ridiculous standards in the future. Now let's get back to that uninformed stupid shit you were saying about how anyone can become a musician at any time and they're all richer than you anyway.

[DerWaschbar]

lol what even is this thread?

[DerWaschbar]

I don't really listen to music much these days, but if I find something I will enjoy as much or more than 6 beers I buy it because the cost is basically the same.

[eugene]

 

 

My apologies. I'll exclude you from your own ridiculous standards in the future. Now let's get back to that uninformed stupid shit you were saying about how anyone can become a musician at any time and they're all richer than you anyway.

so you just repeat that same stupid point about my supposed standards that have absolutely no relevance to this particular topic just in case it might stick the second time ? the first point is obviously true as anyone can make sounds to the enjoyment of others (professionally or unprofessionally is totally not the point), the second is true in my case and the musicians i listen to, not towards all musicians.

 

do you feel like you're gaining some ground in this exchange and saying something smart ? i really think that you should stop, for your own sake, i'm not objective but you know..

[luke viia]

know what about what ?

[Guest HokusPoker]

 

Eugene, saying that these people have more money than you have and because of that you don't want to pay them anything, is just insane. I don't even want to give reasons.

 

Also listen to Drukqs and imagine RDJ not spending days and weeks on not only coming up with a complex composition and great melodies, but also with playing with settings, instruments, samples etc. You cannot have that complexity and unique sound by simply using default settings in Fruity Loops. And in order to get your idea across exactly the way it is in your head, what you WANT it to be rather than what you're able to achieve with your instruments/software, you need to see through the settings and just know that in order to achieve that certain texture you're looking for you need to turn that knob by 10 degrees. You cannot do that unless you've spent years burying your head in software and hardware. It's like a musician thinking of a melody and playing it rather than thinking of his fingers and what to do with them.

There's this quote by somebody: “Art is 1% inspiration and 99% transpiration”. I don't fully agree with it, sometimes the opposite ratio is fine too, but creating art is work to a huge extent.

And I don't think you'll hear the following excuse often when asking a band why album X turned out badly: “Well, the record company gave us too much time”.

Time does not equal quality, but there's a considerable correlation I'm 100% sure.

no it actually does make sense in not wanting give pretty rich people more money if you're kinda poor yourself, so you might as well do give those reasons if you want to have some sort of a dialogue.

 

it's probably the 5th time im trying to get this point across but here goes: is it possible that aphex would make a genius album of piano pieces like avril 14th? yes, quite possible, and it wouldn't require that time consuming tinkering. so what we have is that aphex had some ideas that according to you took some time to realize, but that's just what happened, it doesn't mean it's a law of nature of some sort. we don't know what kind of music he would come up with if he didn't have the time to do drukqs, it could be 50 times better than druqks of 50 times worse, and there's absolutely no way you can predict it. relying on past examples doesn't resolve this philosophical point. and of course that quote is complete bullshit because you can easily find genius stuff that's technically very simple and was made in short periods of time. if you don't realize that then we really have nothing to talk about.

Thank you for repeating part of what I said and claiming I didn't, and thank you for not replying to the rest.

If you ask 100 musicians if they would like to work 10 hours or 10 weeks on their next album, don't tell me 90 of them will go for 10 hours.

Anything's possible, Aphex Twin might be able to write a piece like Avril 14th within an hour, but there's NO WAY he puts together Ziggomatic 17 in an hour.

 

I don't want to have conditions where a musician might produce something good in 1 out of 10 cases, but where he/she produces something good in 7/10 cases.

We're talking about probabilities here, not about possible<->impossible.

 

It's not about time only, it's about mental energy because making music does need concentration which you might not have if you have to worry about finding or keeping your everyday job you hate.

[eugene]

yeah alright i didn't read your post too carefully, but your main point is still that time does correlate with quality after all. what simply contradicts that notion of yours is the existence of people who'll prefer avril to ziggomatic, that is unless you want to argue that there's some objective measure for quality. those people would love aphex to not obsess over his beats and just write some more avrils, just because afx strength is in electronix to you doesn't really matter. so in this instance time doesn't correlate with quality (if we ignore all other factors for the sake of the example).

 

i guess you're too focused on idmsters and the like, there's a ton of improvised music out there that disregards this kind of obsessive production ethos by definition.

[Guest HokusPoker]

Well, by that logic, nothing correlates with nothing, because there's no scale to be used for anything.

You can do that, but then there really is nothing to talk about, we'll never agree on anything.

(I'm pretty sure Avril 14th took many days as well, but that's not the point)

 

I still think that besides personal preference, there's a way of feeling what the quality, you can call it entropy, of a piece of music is.

There's a lot of music that I like, but where I know exactly that it is not the highest quality in terms of inventiveness. Not every Goa track is the reinvention of the wheel, still I could kiss the producers for some of the same tracks. There are cases where it's the other way round: I know it's good music, but it's not my taste.

 

Another way of measuring this might be to ask musicians if they're happy with their album, if they think they got the most out of themselves, if they were able to record what they wanted their music to sound like, or even more. I think the satisfaction will correlate with if they think they got enough time for it (again: I'm not saying that an album that was one year in the making will be twice as good if they get another year). Yes, it's debatable how much enough time is, but it's more likely you reach your personal 'enough time' if you've got plenty of it.

[eugene]

the scale is your taste, or some kind communal taste like here on watmm, it varies a lot but there are still some anchors to hold on to, like if ae went dubstep no one would accept it here, except alco maybe.

 

re your second point, it's an easy and predictable counter for me, but still: your feeling is subjective, you have some idea of quality and you try to apply it to different kinds of musics. i think it wont be difficult to accept that others will have other ideas about quality.

 

re third point, i'd say if it reaches the point where there's a complete album, it will be something a musician is satisfied with by definition. another thing is that musician's measure of album quality could be very different from the fans'. but yeah, no one would say no to more time to do the thing you love, but i kinda lost the thread of though as to what it might mean in our discussion, lol.

[Alcofribas]

the scale is your taste, or some kind communal taste like here on watmm, it varies a lot but there are still some anchors to hold on to, like if ae went dubstep no one would accept it here, except alco maybe.

 

finally eugene says something sensible.

[DerWaschbar]

How much would you guys pay to listen to yourselves talk?

[Zephyr_Nova]

Worst thread 2014.

[Alcofribas]

imo ambient type tracks are done pretty quick and tracks with complex beats take longer. but sometimes the reverse is true. mental.

[Guest totemcrackerjack]

How much would you guys pay to listen to yourselves talk?

At least $70. Cause I'm worth it.