how long must we write this song

[Cryptowen]

I find myself at an odd crossroads artistically wherein I spend most of my time working towards being in a sort of creatively adventurous headspace, but upon reaching it I often try to vacate the premises as fastly as possible

 

for instance I may be sitting down to make some trax. Loops and beats all coming together well, nice sounds, a solid groove slash creepy atmosphere is gestating. And a little voice speaks up, "this is good! Save this! It's finished!"

 

And I protest "but voice, this is a loop - barely a sketch! It's good, yes, but this is merely the sonic fertilizer from which the musical garden may grow!"

 

and the voice dost respond - "who are ye to judge how your work 'should' sound? Why, you're merely the tool we work through - you have no say in this! Perhaps it is your destiny to make loops in 20 minutes and nothing more! And complexity, pah! No doubt some of your favourite music was cobbled together in a single session:

 

 

"you see? Anyone could have made this, technically"

 

 

"three notes! Three notes and he's the destroyer of worlds! For all you know he was thinking about hashbrowns when he made this"

 

 

"so much from so little! Each piece floating, weightless, thoughtless! Miles wide sonic expanses that may well have resulted from pure improvisation"

 

but then an older sounding voice enters the mix

"you truly posit that simplicity of music is the answer? Ha! You forget yourself, child of lusty ambition"

 

 

"Symphonic works may not be your primary goal, but listen to the pop tracks you gravitate towards! There's an interplay of themes, moving parts, layers of distinct textures that feel like the result of multiple focused sessions

 

"you see young pip, the simplicity that appeals to you is not in the sonic structure of the music itself, but in the single minded vision driving it. This applies to any artistic endeavour, from the grand orchestra to the wandering melodica improvisation. From the epic tome to the poem scrawled on a bathroom wall. From the famous learned philosopher to the drunken homeless on the corner

 

"there is a recurrent theme in the work that strikes you, be it simple or complex, of raw self expression. Call it the muse or call it the artist unchained, it makes no difference. There's a big party going on & you're outside the window looking in

 

"and it drives you crazy. That's the real issue here. Not 'should i spend more time working on my tracks?' Not 'will a new piece of gear improve my sound?' Not 'does this make sense to anyone else?'. Were you following the whatever it is, there would be no questions. It would tell you whatever it needs"

 

And I ponder for a minute. "well, what if these moments of self-confliction are all a part of the game as well? This posturing at maturity, I mean. This acting like I have some grand notion on the nature of loops vs songs vs mental masturbation. I conjured you ghosts up out of words and keyboard clacks and I guess it was really for my own enlightenment than anything else"

 

"and do you feel enlightened?"

 

"I dunno, maybe a little. For a second there I...you know, i almost cried at that aphex song just now. I usually don't"

 

"almost?"

 

"well yeah almost, i haven't actually cried in a long time. It's gotten to be a bit of a thing. And this self-enlightenment stuff, it usually mainly happens when I'm stoned. I'm not right now"

 

"tsk, you say that but you don't believe it. Go on, post this, let us speak through someone else. I bet you'll learn a thing or two!"

[hoggy]

watch the thoughts come and go, then do what you will anyway

[auxien]

Create for yourself, monsieur. Others may or may not respond, do whatever you enjoy. Others will converse with you, or they won't.

The amount of music being created and released (not to mention not released/lost) will give the future much to sift through, and be assured people will sift through it. People like to dig around in things like old art and music. Even if not many respond to your music now, maybe in 200 years some young punk will fall in love with it. Just create. Enjoy yourself. Express yourself. *cues Madonna song*

[hoggy]

btw rhubarb is way more than 3 notes and more varied than it may appear (like a lot of Aphex)

[hoggy]

here's an idea - make both a simple mix and a worked on mix - why not?

[Cryptowen]

it's hard to put a finger on what I'm feeling. It's not so much about engaging other people as engaging myself. Of being totally locked into the creative process, not just dipping my toe in halfway & producing something that sounds kinda good to my ears. It's complicated because my feelings to my own music and what tracks I feel were most successful frequently shifts

 

So that was the initial idea behind this thread - "maybe I should spend more time on tracks". But as I thought about it I realized it's not that simple. I like songs that sound like they were laboured over for weeks. I also like songs that sound like they were the product of many fast batches of experimentation. But there's a certain thereness that's prevalent in both that can't be ascribed to any simple fix.

 

Sometimes it feels like your mode of expression is the constant & the only variable is how connected you choose to feel to it

btw rhubarb is way more than 3 notes and more varied than it may appear (like a lot of Aphex)

yeah i know but i'm still pretty confident it was banged out quick

here's an idea - make both a simple mix and a worked on mix - why not?

I do, but sometimes I get obsessed with ideas of having a fixed, mechanistic process. Like "oh I should only ever use x number of instruments, spend y amount of time", but all my best tracks seem to result from a lack of planning. Sometimes it's complicated and sometimes it ain't.

[hoggy]

maybe banged out quick but how much preparation? how many attempts at improvising it? how much time spent understanding lots of different music and imagining ways of making it? how much thought put into translating emotions into music?

 

is the 'thereness', expressing some particular emotion, acutely? maybe making music is easy, but conveying emotions or creating some sense of a moment takes skill, introspection, imagination

[hoggy]

I think it's possible to over think these things, anyway, there are many different answers, most of which are 'try this' or 'try that' - when you try lots of different answers to the question, maybe you develop the ability to answer it in your own way

[YEK]

don't be afraid of your THOUGHTS

[purlieu]

Just to bring this back, I'd say from my experience, some of my best tracks were knocked together in an hour or so, some of them took a whole afternoon and then many, many revisits to tweak, change, detroy, reconstruct. Every song is different. Rhubarb took a lot less time than Girl/Boy Song. They are both incredible because of their respective starkness and complexity. Each piece has its own rules and its own internal logic, and should only ever comply to those.

I mean, Burial recorded Untrue in a fortnight or something. Not that everyone can do it, but anything goes.

[Guest Akiak]

nice! just to add my own experience, I'm finding that ideally tracks should be pretty much completed on the first session. In my case that's pretty hard because of various disturbances, people calling, knocking on the door, noise etc. so i have to give priority, and i tend to concentrate on making a full-fledged song, and leaving the mixing/perfecting for some other time if I can't do it.

If this doesnt happen, and you have this awesome loop which you've saved as is, then just don't touch it, leave it until someday you'll hear the song in your head again and you can work on it like it was day one. this may never happen, but getting into this 'purist' mindset is def a step in the right direction.

 

it's a weird game..

[Dpek]

btw cryptowen, I like your short tracks so to me you're doing something right! I guess everybody can be a technician producer nowadays and that's why it is so appealing to a musician (who knows he has something more than your average EDM joe) to try to do more with less. I don't think this is a bad habit but be prepared - when you stumble across a loop that really shines through you, then breathe and take a few more seconds (or hours) just to add some texture. yes, loop for rhubarb was banged out in like 7 minutes but richard then sat down and worked really delicately to make the arrangement perfect. I guess the problem isn't in the shortness of your sessions but in the first moment - the moment you start banging out a new tune - something must grab you and really express itself without filters. then you'll see you'll have time to perfect that melody cause it will speak to you. or something :D

[Cryptowen]

btw cryptowen, I like your short tracks so to me you're doing something right!

hey thx

I'm pretty into the quick production ethos, and the idea that when you're really connected to the production process the "flaws" become part of the sonic character. I don't quite remember the mindset I was in when I started this topic, but I think you touched on it

loop for rhubarb was banged out in like 7 minutes but richard then sat down and worked really delicately to make the arrangement perfect

Songs I really like tend to have this dedication to vision, where it sounds like the creator really stuck with it until every detail was just right, but at the same time didn't overwork anything (which imo manifests itself as that loss of forward momentum, and the feeling of the track being over-encumbered)

[Ragnar]

hey do yous people like these? I made them just playing around on the keyboard after I made a patch I liked

 

https://soundcloud.com/supergrandmatales324/moebius-pinecone

 

https://soundcloud.com/supergrandmatales324/two-triangles

 

 

but yeah these are the dry mixes and all, like you can play them in realtime and it sounds like that

 

but I tend to make mental shit nowadays because I find it challenging and simple songs/loops tend to depress me now. Although I'd love to take it to extremes and be one of those 2 second loop guys who composed for 90's Playstation/PC games aka LSD dream emulator and the like. 99% of my songs are based on loops in all honesty. Just when doing things like polymeter the brain doesn't perceive it as loops anymore?

[RFJ]

First post here guys...

 

This is something I've been struggling with in my own work as of late as well. I dream of having intricately composed ambient glitch type music. I see people all across the Internet in various places posting 5+ min tracks. But, as with the OP, recently I've been getting a solid 2.5 to 3 min and calling it.

 

I mean I could pull a copy / paste or duplicate job on what I've done and add some more efx / modulation / counter melody / what-have-you but the feeling of "this piece says what it needs to" usually wins out.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that's what you should ask yourself. Does this piece say what it needs to? Is the feeling I'm trying to get across to the listener accurately communicated? If the answers to those questions are yes then I'd say just call it done. I mean no need to loop it again just to add a few more fancy tricks right?

[Hautlle]

First post here guys...

 

This is something I've been struggling with in my own work as of late as well. I dream of having intricately composed ambient glitch type music. I see people all across the Internet in various places posting 5+ min tracks. But, as with the OP, recently I've been getting a solid 2.5 to 3 min and calling it.

 

I mean I could pull a copy / paste or duplicate job on what I've done and add some more efx / modulation / counter melody / what-have-you but the feeling of "this piece says what it needs to" usually wins out.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that's what you should ask yourself. Does this piece say what it needs to? Is the feeling I'm trying to get across to the listener accurately communicated? If the answers to those questions are yes then I'd say just call it done. I mean no need to loop it again just to add a few more fancy tricks right?

 

This is where I've been lately too I'd rather have a 2.5 minute track that I want to listen to over and over than a 5 min track that leaves me satisfied*

 

*this may or may not change depending on the date or time or at any given moment.