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Drukqs Gear and Samples


Guest skibby

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but also, pro tools has the audio suite stuff which was an offline processor that worked in a kind of similar manor. i'd really like to see something like this for ableton drum racks as well. I often load up huge chains on different drum rack pads and then have to go manually bounce them down and bring them back onto the pad, replacing the original and then keep backups of the original stuff on top of that. would be great to just freeze a pad. 

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I'll post this here too for the relevancy to the thread, Quote from daddy1 on the drukqs bleep store page:

 

fanks!

 

The reason this vid exists is because when my good friend Leila wanted to remix it, she asked if she could just have the melody without the drums, to make it easier to work out, so I thought be a nice little treat to make her a movie of it.

About PlayerPro though,Id like to write a chunk about that program.

 

Its very simple compared to modern things like Renoise BUT it had some advantages over it

Here’s the main things I loved about Playerpro. You could drag instruments from the list on the right, directly into the arrangement window, this alone makes writing things SO much faster than say Renoise and SO much more fun and less ballache.

I know you can play them in from the keyboard but you need both.

Next is if you right click a note in the arrangement window, you get a list of possible column functions/FX AND notes with octaves, This is a really fast and intuitive way to program and most importantly edit things you played in.

Ive tried in vain to make Renoise coders listen, help!

 

You could print plugin effects directly & destructively onto the sample, hence fr eeing up CPU but you could hear the effect first before you printed it.

I've really pecked several people to do this and it did get finally done in Renoise but its still not as accurate as PP, gain is not handled correctly last time i checked, Renoise has that great highlight part of the arrangement thing but the gain doesn’t get worked out properly when you have a bunch of fx, be top if this is fixed now?

The other reason this feature is so good and powerful is because most people these days setup EQs on each channel etc and they just sit there wasting CPU and most importantly the urge to carry on tweaking it always remains.

You would be amazed how it can train your brain to get it right the first time when you are forced to make a decision about EQ and then can’t change it, a bit like with a digital camera, you just take loads of shit pictures of the same thing instead of one thats right, I’m generalising.

But every sampler VST i’ve seen does this as well, its the wrong way to do it, all your plugins should be available in the sample editor to apply to samples, not on the mixer, well you need both.

I think its because in the beginning of audio on DAWS, coders were fixated about replicating real mixing desks and recording bands but this didn’t take into account the new way people were going to start using DAW's

But even if you can’t take that discipline you could just have an undo history on the sample..so you wouldn’t have to re EQ the EQ if it were wrong..you could also have an amazing cpu guzzling EQ on every sound.

It just doesn’t make any sense to have a live EQ on static samples..yet every DAW does this, unless I missed one? Ive checked all of them and they all do that..frustrating when everyone goes down the same wrong road.

Also helped code some really different sounding granular and FFT plugs for it which was the icing on the cake…

But it was really limited so would prefer those functions in Renoise rather than resurrecting good old PP.

 

Very cool, hope to see him join the alpha tester ranks soon ;-) ,

 

On the Renoise suggestions; I thought dragging into the pattern editor of instruments was already possible, but it isn't. Probably makes more sense to have with a long instrument list to the side like player pro has, instead of the default lill box in Renoise 3.1, space which is divided by the disk op by default? (you'd still be mouse scrolling the box looking for an instrument before being able to drag it in).

Some of the options which he is looking for through right clicking of a note in a sense are already there, but accessed through the 'fx' arrow down toggle in the pattern editor. This gives an overview of all sample commands that can be applied, there are multiple ways of changing the octave..still worth to look into, I bet this could be easily scripted added into the right mouse click window.

 

Some of the criticism make sense like better native freezing (what he calls printing the effects destructively I guess). Currently you can render vst's into a sample using the fx button in the sample editor, or render a selection in the pattern editor to sample, but this doesn't automatically (optionally) insert the rendered bits back into the pattern editor, muting the track-fx for the time of the newly rendered sound.

 

Based on my suggestions Afta from the Renoise forum created a tool which sorta automates the process described above through lua scripting, but slices the sample also; http://forum.renoise.com/index.php/topic/43907-new-tool-30-render-and-slice/

Only thing missing is replacing the old with the new and taking into account muting the fx on the particular track. Would be great if team Renoise picks this up after finishing their new product.

 

Not sure what he means exactly with the gain thing? I know you can set headroom in songs/song option tab in Renoise 3.1, which affects rendering if I remember correctly. So set to 0 db if you don't want to have -6 db after every render?

For the eq'ing he could use the 'fx' button in the sample editor, rendering in any eq settings into a sample (destructively). I do this all the time for example subtracting low rumble frequencies from sounds that don't need them.

 

In any way, great that this puts Renoise in the light  :cool: .

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In a moment of selfish fanboyism I asked him if he used renoise still or released any tracks with it. He didn't answer that but mentioned that he still likes trackers and uses them all the time.

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Would be great if team Renoise picks this up after finishing their new product.

What's going on with team Renoise and what's the new product? I got curious a month or so ago; saw there hadn't been any new releases in quite a while and couldn't find anything in the way of updates.
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i cant stop watching that vordhosbn pp vid. it's so surreal and humbling at the same time seeing that monster tune playing on a lil tracker

Yeah it's v special. Personally touching, but not like that jk it's totally like that <3

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Would be great if team Renoise picks this up after finishing their new product.

What's going on with team Renoise and what's the new product? I got curious a month or so ago; saw there hadn't been any new releases in quite a while and couldn't find anything in the way of updates.

There have been a couple of threads on this in the general discussions part of the renoise forum with taktik (main dev) saying they're still working on/off on renoise, but the main focus atm is a new product. A product of which nothing has been disclosed yet.

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Would be great if team Renoise picks this up after finishing their new product.

What's going on with team Renoise and what's the new product? I got curious a month or so ago; saw there hadn't been any new releases in quite a while and couldn't find anything in the way of updates.
There have been a couple of threads on this in the general discussions part of the renoise forum with taktik (main dev) saying they're still working on/off on renoise, but the main focus atm is a new product. A product of which nothing has been disclosed yet.
Interesting. Will have to check that out when it's ready, thanks.
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would love ot hear more tracker music from Rich.. the tracker heavy RDJ LP And Druqks tracks are so classic and unique in his discography.  Would really love to hear more.  One of my favourite basslines of all time comes in around 45 seconds of Peek 824545201.  

I spent so long trying to re-create it with hardware.. I think its that desire to learn how something is made and then to learn how it was done and be able to re-create it, or a variation of it, is one of the main driving forces behind me making music.  Anyways, after months and months i figured i could get modulation like that with renoise with a lot of time and experimenting.  In the sequencer you get the ability to be able to enter custom values for the filter cutoff (or any parameter) per step and have it instantly jump to that setting giving a similar sound to the modulation in those basslines coming in and out.  But getting a call and response going on like rdj did in peek is a whole other pain and skill.    
I am really hoping he puts up some tracker/laptop era tracks to the store soon, was sad there didn't seem to be any in the sc dump  

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would love ot hear more tracker music from Rich.. the tracker heavy RDJ LP And Druqks tracks are so classic and unique in his discography.  Would really love to hear more.  One of my favourite basslines of all time comes in around 45 seconds of Peek 824545201.  

I spent so long trying to re-create it with hardware.. I think its that desire to learn how something is made and then to learn how it was done and be able to re-create it, or a variation of it, is one of the main driving forces behind me making music.  Anyways, after months and months i figured i could get modulation like that with renoise with a lot of time and experimenting.  In the sequencer you get the ability to be able to enter custom values for the filter cutoff (or any parameter) per step and have it instantly jump to that setting giving a similar sound to the modulation in those basslines coming in and out.  But getting a call and response going on like rdj did in peek is a whole other pain and skill.    

I am really hoping he puts up some tracker/laptop era tracks to the store soon, was sad there didn't seem to be any in the sc dump  

I started a thread over on the gear discussion page ages ago about this exact sound. Was trying to figure it out myself, theres a similar sound in parts of 'Inkey' too. 

Care to divulge a bit more about your technique? I use renoise also and figured it obviously has a lot to do with automation of the cutoff and resonance but have always felt like somethings missing. 

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would love ot hear more tracker music from Rich.. the tracker heavy RDJ LP And Druqks tracks are so classic and unique in his discography.  Would really love to hear more.  One of my favourite basslines of all time comes in around 45 seconds of Peek 824545201.  

I spent so long trying to re-create it with hardware.. I think its that desire to learn how something is made and then to learn how it was done and be able to re-create it, or a variation of it, is one of the main driving forces behind me making music.  Anyways, after months and months i figured i could get modulation like that with renoise with a lot of time and experimenting.  In the sequencer you get the ability to be able to enter custom values for the filter cutoff (or any parameter) per step and have it instantly jump to that setting giving a similar sound to the modulation in those basslines coming in and out.  But getting a call and response going on like rdj did in peek is a whole other pain and skill.    

I am really hoping he puts up some tracker/laptop era tracks to the store soon, was sad there didn't seem to be any in the sc dump  

I started a thread over on the gear discussion page ages ago about this exact sound. Was trying to figure it out myself, theres a similar sound in parts of 'Inkey' too. 

Care to divulge a bit more about your technique? I use renoise also and figured it obviously has a lot to do with automation of the cutoff and resonance but have always felt like somethings missing. 

 

I'd say it's something like the old tracker method of recording a filter sweep as one sample and playing with the sample offset command; this was the best way of creating interesting tonal variation back in the days when trackers were entirely sample-based with no synths. Using the Sxx command in Renoise is the way to go:

C-5 02 .. .. S10

F-5 02 .. .. S50

D-4 02 .. .. S20

C-4 02 .. .. SF0

 

etc etc

 

It was also common to have different instruments using similar samples and switch between them, which was good for per-note variation using single cycle waves.

 

Of course with Renoise now a lot of this stuff can be done using the graph style automation lanes and VSTi settings, but there's a certain magic/precision to using samples and commands. I still render all of the lead sounds in my prog tracks to samples and use the Renoise commands to add expression.

 

you think RDJ album was a tracker?

I think so too, it's so precise that I reckon it would have taken years to sequence any other way, then again it is RDJ so who knows what tricks he had up his sleeve in those days.. plus he says that everything was done in software for that album, was there anything else in 1995/1996 that could use samples in such a way apart from trackers? I started using trackers in 1997 and didn't know of anything else capable of working with samples so quickly other than sequencing external samplers.. then again I was 13 and didn't really know much about making electronic music :P

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you think RDJ album was a tracker?

I always thought it sounded a lot like tracker music, except for the fact it had effects. At the time, I dismissed the notion, as I figured it unlikely he'd even have heard of trackers. But now it's come out that some of Drukqs was tracked, I think it's likely the Richard D. James album was too. Maybe he rendered the separate multitracks and applied effects in post. Or maybe the samples already had them (which is how I did it, back in the day).

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I always imagined it was some kind of piano roll sequencer. Mainly because that's the only way I've ever come close to that kind of drum programming. Trackers are much more mechanical to me and I have a hard time achieving the same kinds of sounds.

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He said that at the time of release that RDJ album was done "native", so a tracker seems totally possible...(then again, Aphex is quite good at saying all kinds of stuff so...hm)

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I always imagined it was some kind of piano roll sequencer. Mainly because that's the only way I've ever come close to that kind of drum programming. Trackers are much more mechanical to me and I have a hard time achieving the same kinds of sounds.

 

 

I thought the Richard D. James Album did sound mechanical, that's why I thought it sounded like it was made on a tracker!  It's so harsh and brittle sounding; quantised; fastidious and intricate; and sample based.  These are qualities that trackers lend themselves well to.

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