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How do Netlabels get known? How to build following?


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just fyi feeding corn to cats can cause obesity and other health problems

your cat is an obligate carnivore

pls respect its dietary needs

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A male cat with a diet with corn-based food could get a blockage that effectively crystallizes its dick and needs to be removed surgically.

 

Please feed your cats wet food.

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A male cat with a diet with corn-based food could get a blockage that effectively crystallizes its dick and needs to be removed surgically.

 

Please feed your cats wet food.

 

Sad but true. I had this happen to one of my cats recently, and it cost about $600 in vet bills, which I could have spent on duplicating cassettes or a publicist.

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this opal guy apparently aside, i don't think anyone's making anywhere near a living off of selling 100 cassette tapes...

 

Yeah most labels seem to break even or maintain enough profit to plug along, and they have day jobs or some other source of income. Some individuals run disto sites as well as labels, others put out more than 100 tapes (ctatsu and holodeck do like runs of 250 I think), others have decent digital sales, etc. I think it's the exception more than the norm to make a living off DIY labels.

 

 

out of interest what do you think is fair amount for the label to take with sales on these tape labels like 1080 or opal.

 

maybe label takes 100% of the tapes and 50/50 the digital? must be selling a lot to make a living off gigs + tapes

 

Every label I've worked with has just sent out artist copies - the artist will get between 10% and 50% of the copies (depending on the label) to give away, sell, whatever. Then the label will recoup the costs and fund future releases with sales of the copies they sell themselves.

 

I'm trying to get a formula down myself, something fair and mutually beneficial. The labels I see doing like decent looking $5 tapes for bands - I honestly don't think they make any money off those. Maybe the label breaks even. Now if it's a solo bedroom producer putting out a nice $7 tape online - there's some money be made for sure...has to be if the artist isn't going to sell the tapes IRL.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have some sick, actionable advice. Go watch a shitload of twitch.tv and pay attention to what's happening there. I watch a lot of twitch.tv. There are a couple reasons why it's super relevant.

 

Have you heard of twitch.tv? People stream video games on the Internet from their basements (lol jk) and some of them make decent livings and average thousands of concurrent viewers. There are all sorts: esports people, comedy people, more community-based streams, people that play really hard games and get mad, speedrunners, etc. I recommend paying close attention to more community/comedy oriented casters. "Casual casters." Example: MANvsGAME. Also, ezekiel_iii, who is MANvsGAME's real-life best friend from junior highschool. MAN promo'd him hard enough that he could also go full time.

 

Some guys, like MANvsGAME, have thousands of viewers, but others have like 2 viewers. It maybe took them months of streaming hours a day to get 5 viewers. They're good at streaming and are at least as good as someone with hundreds of viewers. The guys with thousands of viewers usually are noticeably better at what they do than those with hundreds. They almost always have really strong brands, too.

 

The guys with hundreds of viewers are usually well-connected. A visible member of communities of casters that are more successful than they are. They network well. They might even put on a really good show. They might have a decent brand, but not very good. Sometimes they don't at all though, and are just well-connected and pleasant and reliable. Consistency and long hours are vitally important.

 

That's my first point. Twitch is mature enough now that it's really hard to get going as a caster. There's a bubble that will maybe burst. Or maybe MANvsGAME is a forerunner that will eventually become as big as Beyonce. Who knows. Twitch seems like a primordial analogue for net music. There's probably a lot to learn. The bubble may not even burst for a long time.

 

Even better is my second point. Twitch recently put in place an auto-mute function for recordings where some algorithm detects copyrighted music (much like Youtube). This has made a lot of casters only play only video game music or music that was made by artists/netlabels that gave them permission. There are several musicians that are regulars in MAN's chatroom, for example, and at least one of them has even gotten partnered on Twitch for video game streaming, in addition to whatever exposure his music got. MAN has a boner for chiptune and video game music, so he's maybe not the mark you're looking for. He also has plenty of music and musician buddies already (he was even ahead of the curve with his music policy before Twitch did the muting thing).

 

But check out some of those people with hundreds of viewers. They probably don't have as many musician buddies, and maybe run out of music to play during their commercial breaks (where everyone blocks the ads and listens to the music). Lots of these guys are pros and will thank you for letting them use your music and will plug you. Hang out in their chat and be their buddy. Once you're buddies, drop something hot off the presses into their chat and see how it goes.

 

Of course not everyone will be into your kind of music. But a few of them surely have good taste, right?

 

Footnote: some casters even get ridiculous-wow-thats-pretty-much-a-years-salary type donations. Some casters probably fake getting big donations to try and start a donation war. Because donation wars happen. Surely someone has thought to game and exploit it by now. No one's gotten caught yet. Someone did get caught faking their wheelchair-boundness, though.

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I think a following with staying power who is willing to participate in what you do in order to help you grow is much more valuable and important than 1,000 people who will click the like button or click through the first track on a bandcamp page.

 

Best way to get that is to get involved with a group of like minded individuals. Take interest in what they do, participate in their stuff, and when the time comes, bring forth your idea to them.

 

By that time, provided you have something unique to offer, the community will be all too willing to participate and advocate for what you are doing. It takes a while getting this process done, but if done right, the benefits will be reaped 10 fold.

 

For this to have maximum effect it mustn't be driven by making a buck or market share. You have to be willing to keep at it even if a mass number isn't produced over night or through the course of a year.

 

Be sure you keep the listeners you get and the best way to do that is take interest in their project and genuinely appreciate theirs in yours when it comes.

 

The natural way is always best and there's nothing organic about spam.

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I just want to clarify really quickly that I don't care about what any of you or anyone on this planet thinks or has to say about my music. I think its kind of weird that people like to gang up on me but actually I think now it's because I act like a pretentious asshole so i want to apologize for that. There is a lot of really good advice, I guess I just assumed all along that it was just about the music, and there is this weird double standard... I have heard enough over the years to know that my music isn't the problem. Sure, that stuff is amateurish but nobody has ever said it was awful until this thread, just as a way to counteract my egotism. I have always heard good things and the downloads have reflected that over the years. But that's weird because I thought you guys were cool. But it makes you realize people care more about the stuff surrounding the music a lot of the times, than they do the actual music itself. It's always, in part, something else. It's my personality and the image and the whole package. Its something in my writing style, it makes people want to make fun of me, tear me down, and get that snide weird attitude with me for reasons that I honestly struggle to discern. Everything feels unpleasant. I don't get it. It must be my own mind turning against itself. But its me walking around like I am the best, and I am not. It's probably a dumb way to act. I think we all feel really sad sometimes, so we have to be sure we can cheer one another up instead of being unpleasant. I have found lately that most people are fairly unpleasant. I often have a nice conversation but on the flip of a switch, anything can get really underhanded and I often think that we, as people, were supposed to be nice. I watch TV and the characters are nice, people out shopping are nice to one another. We read magazines and everyone acts politely. But lately I have begun to notice that most of the time, people are actually rather unpleasant. Between the snide, irritable energies and exterior, and the sarcastic, derisive joking macho gangbanging, everyone often seems pretty whack to me. I am not any better, surely. Certainly, I started this thread and the first thing I said was that I am awesome, etc. So I guess in the end, I have nothing to bitch about.

 

Are we all just walking businesses ensuring the failure of one another?

 

Over the years, people hate my posts. But most of the time when I feel really horrible and stupid when people make fun of me, I go back and read them and realize that they were really good posts. So I guess its your problem if you want to direct negative energy at me.

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I think bcm is possibly one of the stupidest people I have ever encountered on the internet. Pretty much every thread I make he ends up somewhere making fun of me and trying to get people to see me as a joke so he can direct them to gang up on me. And he always succeeds, because people are just as stupid and weak as he is and he knows it. Thats oretty much the definition of cyber bullying if you look it up.

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Sounds like you're really taking seriously the legitimately helpful advice many forum users gave you in the thread you created.

Ya, because saying this is some of the "worst shit you have ever heard" (your words) is 'legitimate help' and not just some jealous loser on the internet trying to tear someone down so he can feel big about himself. Theres nothing constructive about that and honestly if you dont at least admit that this isn't the "worst" if not otherwise than you know, i doubt history will smile upon you bro

 

http://corncat.bandcamp.com/track/ghast4-unu

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vamos, i just want you to know that i could easily take your throne of the most hated person in this forum. if i wanted it, i could take steps. just know that not even that crown is safe. i will steal everything from you and burn with hatred as you fade into obscurity, which lasts forever.

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m8 does realise people have tastes independent to their own ears. If someone doesnt like your tunes so what, making the music you do your never gonna make millions man. otherwise stick to what you do, network, make friends, grow and maybe you'll grow a following.

or trash talk those who might make up a large portion of your possible followers on a forum...

 

might be a learning experience for us all

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well the world is as it is. it became this way through a long long process and is almost untouchable by a mere single man. even nations don't have a chance. only time has a chance.

 

why am I telling this? because being stubborn and righteous about what SHOULD matter in the music business is just as naive as protesting against wars. yes, it ain't right, but it is as it is. industry is a harsh place but it's also the only place which can expose your music to a large crowd. everything else is more or less mastrubatory really. so yes, you have to learn your marketing skills if you wanna succeed.

 

and there are always exceptions against the rule. but don't count on it, because these people are half genius and half stupid and most of all 100% lucky

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"Image" and representation of it, and the content that those images are supposed to portray, are totally separate things. There is this false idea in high-art or "integrity" based arts, that content will serve the purpose of the content, in and of itself. But emotion and deeper aspects of anything- heart and mind- do not exist in physicality. They cannot exist in physicality. But only partially realizing this, artists with inherent understanding of concepts who are able to execute aesthetics at a high ideal, often try to spread their works through a means that is low on physicality; low on being able to reach anyone but those who already understand at that high level. They fail at spreading anything to anyone new because of this flaw in thinking.

 

Major record labels abuse image and use it to sell bullshit, but this doesn't mean image is a horrible thing. It is required for spreading of all goods. Having quality takes many years to develop-- having a solid image takes many years to develop. Overall, it is this "hard work" ethic that is superficially desirable subconsciously. This is why the torrent of recent hyperrealist artists in the fine art world are booming, even though they might be saying absolutely nothing. But if you have something that you feel is worth spreading- something to help humanity- then it would ideally be packaged in an awesome image. Otherwise, this just proves that you have no connection with physicality- no connection with this projected illusion world- and therefore there is no reason for anyone else to jump on your bandwagon.

 

Plus, ideally, it is those who have all aspects of aesthetics covered that get far in the art game; networking is just part of the art of mini community building. And if you can't do that, then you are as good as a hermit.

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Sounds like you're really taking seriously the legitimately helpful advice many forum users gave you in the thread you created.

Ya, because saying this is some of the "worst shit you have ever heard" (your words) is 'legitimate help' and not just some jealous loser on the internet trying to tear someone down so he can feel big about himself. Theres nothing constructive about that and honestly if you dont at least admit that this isn't the "worst" if not otherwise than you know, i doubt history will smile upon you bro

 

http://corncat.bandcamp.com/track/ghast4-unu

 

 

Oh lol. I'll at least throw you a bone and admit that there was intention to knock your egotism down a peg, but your music is nowhere near as good as you think it is, and you won't accomplish shit until you realize that. I listened to that song you just linked start to finish and there's nothing in it that warrants your shitty attitude. It meanders, it has no sense of purpose, it has nothing to say other than "hey I figured out how to string some sounds together in a song-ish kind of order on my computer". When I said you should delete what you have up there and go back to the drawing board, it was genuine. You have a long road ahead of you and a lot of hard work before you'll create something worth people's time, but you'll only get there if you're willing to put in the hours in a DAW, network, and not insult your entire target demographic while simultaneously being baffled as to why they don't want to check out your shit.

 

And just to prove I'm not some rando 'jealous loser on the internet' and actually know what I'm talking about, here's a song I crafted that was released on CD last year:

 

https://zipsrecords.bandcamp.com/track/dilation

 

It has a sense of real 3-dimensional sonic space, a musical narrative, and all around shows serious attention to detail & craftsmanship within an established musical vernacular. It's saying something emotionally that's easily communicated to the listener, while still being sonically dense & rewarding repeat listens. This is something that can only be accomplished after years of hard work, and you'd betteer believe if I walked around going "this is the best shit ever made, I'm god's gift to music" the label owner likely wouldn't have given me the time of day or wanted to release the track on physical media.

 

tl;dr -- Sorry if I hurt your feelings but you're kind of a twat and your music isn't very good and I can say this objectively because I'm better than you.

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I think bcm is possibly one of the stupidest people I have ever encountered on the internet. Pretty much every thread I make he ends up somewhere making fun of me and trying to get people to see me as a joke so he can direct them to gang up on me. And he always succeeds, because people are just as stupid and weak as he is and he knows it. Thats oretty much the definition of cyber bullying if you look it up.

lay off the drugs man, I've been discussing eggs for most of this thread.

 

i don't think that counts as cyber bullying but i could be wrong.

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tl;dr -- Sorry if I hurt your feelings but you're kind of a twat and your music isn't very good and I can say this objectively because I'm better than you.

 

 

here's a song I crafted that was released on CD last year:

 

https://zipsrecords.bandcamp.com/track/dilation

 

It has a sense of real 3-dimensional sonic space, a musical narrative, and all around shows serious attention to detail & craftsmanship within an established musical vernacular. It's saying something emotionally that's easily communicated to the listener, while still being sonically dense & rewarding repeat listens. This is something that can only be accomplished after years of hard work, and you'd betteer believe if I walked around going "this is the best shit ever made, I'm god's gift to music" the label owner likely wouldn't have given me the time of day or wanted to release the track on physical media.

 

:cisfor:

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here's a song I crafted that was released on CD last year:

 

https://zipsrecords.bandcamp.com/track/dilation

 

It has a sense of real 3-dimensional sonic space, a musical narrative, and all around shows serious attention to detail & craftsmanship within an established musical vernacular. It's saying something emotionally that's easily communicated to the listener, while still being sonically dense & rewarding repeat listens. This is something that can only be accomplished after years of hard work, and you'd betteer believe if I walked around going "this is the best shit ever made, I'm god's gift to music" the label owner likely wouldn't have given me the time of day or wanted to release the track on physical media.

this reminds me of patrick batman describing his business card

 

nah man jk jk i like the track

 

But yeah don't get caught seeing netlabels as the be all end all. Life's a big game, music's a big game, releasing techno on the internet in 2014 is a big game. Don't get bent out of shape on one path cuz tomorrow morning you might wake up all like EFF IDM IMMA MAKE CIRCUS MUSIC & PLAY IT ON STREET CORNERS

 

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