The Quinnspiracy Theory, Tropes vs. Women in Video Games & #gamergate

[Friendly Foil]

lol calling anyone who writes for Kotaku a "journalist".

[Braintree]

 

I can't continue to explain simple and obvious things to people who lack the ability to recognize them. sorry.

 

A not-quite-so-simple observation of mine is that those unwilling to entertain the ideas of others generally either lack maturity or intellect.

[mcbpete]

Moving the non-'what game are you playing' chatter into here.

[Adieu]

At first I thought they were all deleted and I was like WTF. But also, you missed a few regarding Anita's videos.

 

 

I can't continue to explain simple and obvious things to people who lack the ability to recognize them. sorry.

 

A not-quite-so-simple observation of mine is that those unwilling to entertain the ideas of others generally either lack maturity or intellect.

 

 

I can't tell if you are criticizing me or agreeing with me.

[autopilot]

Good idea to separate it, since it really isn't "What Games Are You Currently Playing".

 

A straight-faced addendum to my last post since that was done with a sarcastic tone:

 

IMO, the idea that advocates of "social justice" are committing such an offense that it warrants a pejorative term to describe them is extremely ignorant and regressive. MRAs, people who self describe as being "anti-SJW", or people who throw anyone trying to participate in the discussion under the "SJW" banner don't deserve equal air time for the sake of perceived impartiality any more than pro-racists deserve air time in news outlets discussing the Ferguson riots.

[autopilot]

lol calling anyone who writes for Kotaku a "journalist".

 

lol indeed.

 

This is why I try to make it a point to use the term "Games Press" for these sites that mostly just parrot PR announcements & give consumer reviews.

[Hoodie]

Good idea to separate it, since it really isn't "What Games Are You Currently Playing".

 

A straight-faced addendum to my last post since that was done with a sarcastic tone:

 

IMO, the idea that advocates of "social justice" are committing such an offense that it warrants a pejorative term to describe them is extremely ignorant and regressive. MRAs, people who self describe as being "anti-SJW", or people who throw anyone trying to participate in the discussion under the "SJW" banner don't deserve equal air time for the sake of perceived impartiality any more than pro-racists deserve air time in news outlets discussing the Ferguson riots.

 

social justice warriors are toxic to movements that are looking for equality in our world. they somehow think that equality among humans will be gained through dividing people up into tiny groups and figuring out which groups are more privileged.

 

i don't support social justice warriors because they are aggressive, mean, vitriolic and entitled. thankfully their movement will never gain steam outside of tumblr and youtube~

[Hoodie]

^^ Yes. The fact that the Kotaku editor even feels obligated to go this in-depth over such a non-issue speaks volumes in itself. This witch hunt over the developer of a mediocre text adventure flash game, coupled with the massive amounts of angry backlash at Sarkeesian in recent weeks for her actually quite enlightening Tropes-vs-Women video series really reflects poorly on the entirety of gaming culture at the moment.

 

sarkeesian's videos aren't enlightened, they're obvious. yes, we live in a world with gender roles, so why is it surprising that we see them in video games, especially when the games industry is so male dominated? why did people feel the need to pay $150,000 to this woman to figure that out for them? it kinda mystifies me, but then again, i'm not obsessed with gender roles. i feel like too many women in the social justice warrior arena define themselves primarily by their gender and it results in attacks on the female gender feeling like attacks on their identity as human beings. i don't even think about my gender unless i need to go shit at a restaurant.

 

and usually poor characterization in video games goes across the board, it doesn't just apply to females. for example, in watchdogs, the hacker babe who was based on the girl with the dragon tattoo was a really lame character and she displayed a couple of really horrendous tropes. but, so was the male main character and his inappropriate macho attitude. but mass effect, on the other hand, has great characterization for male and female characters because it had awesome writers on board. so, i think bad, lazy writing is to blame for these tropes and not harmful sexism in the games industry directed towards women.

[mcbpete]

What's a 'social justice warrior' (sounds like a low budget 90s cartoon), I've also seen 'doxxing' mentioned - I'm guessing it's different from the WATMM term 'docking'

 

Also an interesting read - http://elizabethsampat.com/the-truth-about-zoe-quinn/ (though obviously given the inherent nature of the topic discussed, paradoxically you have to also take the title of the piece with cynicism - but that's a good thing, not saying it's not true, but it's good that such a topic has brought the nature and bias of reporting ANY topic under scrutiny for those thinking everything reported is fact )

[autopilot]

Some reading material on the events of this week:

 

http://www.polygon.com/2014/8/28/6078391/video-games-awful-week

 

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/224400/Gamers_dont_have_to_be_your_audience_Gamers_are_over.php

 

http://www.theverge.com/2014/8/27/6075179/anita-sarkeesian-says-she-was-driven-out-of-house-by-threats

^^ the title of this one "Trolls drive Anita Sarkeesian out of her house to prove misogyny doesn't exist"

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/technology/digital-culture/dont-believe-the-conspiracy-gaming-has-bigger-problems-than-corruption/article20230850/#dashboard/follows/

 

http://www.vice.com/read/meet-the-female-gamer-mascot-created-by-anti-feminists-828?utm_source=vicetwitterus

^^ 4channers actually invented a fictional gamer girl that agrees with them

 

If anyone has links to any reputable news sources posting stories with evidence of Quinn doxxing people, feminists unfairly targeting male gamers/designers, or there being problems with sex scandals for review scores in games press, please link them! I'm open to reading the "other side of the story".

[Guest jasondonervan]

http://youtu.be/AGpJ39JBTLo

 

Trying to keep up with all of this is giving me a headache.

[KovalainenFanBoy]

That Vice article, as usual, is the worst of them all. What a complete load of bullshit

[mcbpete]

What is this 'doxxing' thing ?!

[Guest jasondonervan]

"Doxing (spelling variant Doxxing) is an abbreviation of document tracing, the Internet-based practice of researching and publishing personally identifiable information about an individual. The methods employed in pursuit of this information range from searching publicly available databases and social media websites like Facebook, to hacking, and social engineering. It is closely related to cyber-vigilantism, hacktivism, and cyber-bullying." (Wikipedia)

 

 

(I had to look it up the other day myself)

[mcbpete]

Aww bless em, they really don't want anyone to join their little boys club huh ?!

 

[autopilot]

The sad thing is that, there WAS plenty of room for rational debate of Sarkeesian's examples/conclusions. However, the anti-SJW crowd, through their extremely immature actions, has essentially squashed any possibility of debate because nobody with any amount of sensibility or intelligence would want to side with people behaving like those who made the above pic, or are making death threats, because someone dared to bring up how ridiculous steel-lingerie-armor for female avatars is.

[skotosa]

I'm perplexed because I stumbled on this guy and this video just 10 min ago and come to see there is a watmm post about it.

 

I feel like he may have a point. Its hard to draw the line between serious feminist claims and BS ones.

[Hoodie]

steel lingerie armor is pretty ridiculous, but so is magic, dragons, and a variety of other things found in video games.

 

sexy women in video games are not anti-feminist. women like being sexy too, no matter how much radfems like to deny that. remember, radfems are the people that invented "political lesbianism" and the idea that all sex is rape due to the social pressures put on women. you'll find these attitudes all over social justice websites. if you're curious, just browse through www.reddit.com/r/tumblrinaction and you'll quickly see why social justice warriors are toxic idiots.

 

by the by, i think there should be a wide variety of costume options for both male and female characters in games, though, so players can choose how they want to dress. i wouldn't mind kicking ass in a steel bikini though. being strong and sexy is awesome.

[Adieu]

I'm perplexed because I stumbled on this guy and this video just 10 min ago and come to see there is a watmm post about it.

 

I feel like he may have a point. Its hard to draw the line between serious feminist claims and BS ones.

 

He has some solid points, but obviously there is speculation on both sides. If you would like to get a better understanding of what is going on watch this credibility destroying video about Anita.

 

 

[Hugh Mughnus]

steel lingerie armor is pretty ridiculous, but so is magic, dragons, and a variety of other things found in video games.

 

sexy women in video games are not anti-feminist. women like being sexy too, no matter how much radfems like to deny that. remember, radfems are the people that invented "political lesbianism" and the idea that all sex is rape due to the social pressures put on women. you'll find these attitudes all over social justice websites. if you're curious, just browse through www.reddit.com/r/tumblrinaction and you'll quickly see why social justice warriors are toxic idiots.

 

by the by, i think there should be a wide variety of costume options for both male and female characters in games, though, so players can choose how they want to dress. i wouldn't mind kicking ass in a steel bikini though. being strong and sexy is awesome.

 

You seem like such a rational, balanced person. I really admire your posts and it's nice to encounter a female online with these views (moderate/sensible/realistic).

[skotosa]

 

I'm perplexed because I stumbled on this guy and this video just 10 min ago and come to see there is a watmm post about it.

 

I feel like he may have a point. Its hard to draw the line between serious feminist claims and BS ones.

 

He has some solid points, but obviously there is speculation on both sides. If you would like to get a better understanding of what is going on watch this credibility destroying video about Anita.

 

 

 

Also I'd like to note that I discovered his post while I had stumbled on psychic Cold Readings and how its done and I am now drawing a connection.

[autopilot]

watch this credibility destroying video about Anita.

 

 

 

 

This merely dissects a single example she gives. This is what I referring to in the above post when I said there's room for debate of her examples/conclusions. I would hardly call it "credibility destroying", though, when it only addresses 2 minutes out of 60 minutes of footage/examples, many of which are considerably more graphic & egregious.

 

steel lingerie armor is pretty ridiculous, but so is magic, dragons, and a variety of other things found in video games.

 

sexy women in video games are not anti-feminist. women like being sexy too, no matter how much radfems like to deny that. remember, radfems are the people that invented "political lesbianism" and the idea that all sex is rape due to the social pressures put on women. you'll find these attitudes all over social justice websites. if you're curious, just browse through www.reddit.com/r/tumblrinaction and you'll quickly see why social justice warriors are toxic idiots.

 

by the by, i think there should be a wide variety of costume options for both male and female characters in games, though, so players can choose how they want to dress. i wouldn't mind kicking ass in a steel bikini though. being strong and sexy is awesome.

 

Well yes, obviously it would be a moot point if there were also a steel-banana-hammock option for male avatars. The point is that the standard is that there's not, while the steel lingerie is the standard for the female toons, presumably to act as sexual eye candy for adolescent male players.

 

I don't need a subreddit to inform me that there are a plethora of austistic nutjobs all over the internet. This is not something exclusive to "SJW"s, it's just a singling out unstable individuals and using that to generalize anyone who uses social media as a platform to argue for social progressiveness. There have always been insufferable idiots on the internet, my point is that grouping anyone who's attempting to discuss these issues under the "SJW" banner is counterproductive & ignorant. This is exactly what these trolls are doing in an effort to protect the "integrity" of their violent power fantasies by & large created for adolescent males (or adult males with similar mindsets).

 

You seem like such a rational, balanced person. I really admire your posts and it's nice to encounter a female online with these views (moderate/sensible/realistic).

 

 

Is the implication here that most females online are not moderate/sensible/realistic or just that you don't interact with them regularly?

[skotosa]

What about the portrayal of men being violent killing machines with no sympathy for life? How come you don't hear us guys bitching about that?

[Guest isaki]

I heard she got cocked up the bum

[Hugh Mughnus]

 

 

You seem like such a rational, balanced person. I really admire your posts and it's nice to encounter a female online with these views (moderate/sensible/realistic).

 

 

Is the implication here that most females online are not moderate/sensible/realistic or just that you don't interact with them regularly?

 

 

Little bit of A, little bit of B...

 

No no I'm jk.

 

Nothing to read into on my post I just like the way she thinks is all. I've learned a lot from her posts.