180bpm + acid basslines

[sun drugs]

alright so i recently have gotten back into trackers and im loving renoise. Its a nice change from the mpc and rack sampler + synths.

 

been making some 190bpm jungley stuff, plenty of chops and whatnot but what im struggling with is making some of those basslines you hear all over many rephlex/warp artists tracks

 

similar to the fast acidy bass in

squarepusher - tequila fish

 

 

or the ultimate acid non acid bassline imo

 

 

how do you guys do it. maybe using samples in renoise aint the way to go.

i dont wanna use soft synths cause i got some great hardware and i just dont like the sound of soft synths but i really struggle to get anything half decent from renoise. maybe im just lazy and this shit takes time and plenty of experiments but yeah.

any advice, how you do guys do it. share some love and knowledge

 

 

this is kinda where im at after a few days on renoise, im using 808s for basslines but wanna take it to next level but struggling on where to start

https://soundcloud.com/danjwhite/dun-give-a-fuck

 

[mcbpete]

Does Renoise have a native cutoff & resonator effect ? If so I think that's the key to getting the squidgyness from your bass samples

[sun drugs]

yeah it does, you can set a different value for the filters per step in the sequencer nice and easy, just takes some time to get it right.

 

id be amazed if afx didnt use a tracker for some of his work. it really is great fun but im thinking im gonna have to resort to doing beats in renoise and stick to doing everything else in mpc then mashing together in logic. annoying work around but these basslines are proving to be the hardest sound to re-create

 

edit- i guess what i mean is the sound design is no issue, its the programming

[mcbpete]

On Renoise is there a realtime record option? (I know Buzz tracker has it) Maybe tweak those things whilst the track is playing and it can fill in the automation programming for you (and then you can manually tweak the steps by hand if necessary)

[Guest]

Nice jungle track Dan!

 

Isn't Squarepusher doing realtime bass-guitar playing, running through some kind of hardware filter, ring- modulator effects? Good luck getting your basschops up to par :-) .

 

I don't see a problem with vsti's, you can stack effects, render parts to wav & use the plugin grabber to bounce these to sample and do more exotic processing give them a nastier sound if that is a problem? What route you take, vsti, samples or hardware, like mcbpete is saying, your source sounds and filter effects need to be good to get that squelch. I like a 808 boom for emphasis, but isn't a good source sound to run through a filter with high res settings..

 

Renoise native filter is workable, but not that good imo.. apparently they are now updating the filters for a next update. What filters are you using? Maybe find a quality one..

 

Check out the automasher tool;

 

http://www.renoise.com/tools/automasher

 

&

 

automatron;

 

http://www.renoise.com/tools/automatron

 

to generate complex envelope shapes for the automation editor. In automasher you can set it so the generated shapes are automatically scaled to fit distances in between note-events. You can set min max values, have them randomly variate between set distance or move from start to goal values. Very useful getting squelch for cut-off parameters in a filter.

[psn]

Are you wondering how to write good bass lines? If so, that's just something that needs to be practiced for a long time. Whatever VST, DAW or filter automation you use is irrelevant, as it is a purely compositional challenge.

 

If you're wondering how to get squelchy acid bass sounds, please carry on.

[Lucas]

Are you wondering how to write good bass lines? If so, that's just something that needs to be practiced for a long time. Whatever VST, DAW or filter automation you use is irrelevant, as it is a purely compositional challenge.

 

If you're wondering how to get squelchy acid bass sounds, please carry on.

 

I agree with that. I personally came up with the conclusion that Renoise is not the best tool for achieving such bass lines. My point is that real-time manipulation of cutoff, resonance, env. mod or other parameters is essential if you want to reach the level of expressiveness those premium basslines have. And I never got satisfied with the way Renoise handles automation recording, I'd better look for a software providing more tools for that (for example different automation recording modes likes "write" / "latch" / "touch" ; Reaper does that for example). Mouse can be really useful though if you want to achieve extreme-quick automations at some specific places.

 

Of course composition plays a big part in this challenge, you want your bass to be really dynamic and MIDI tweaks on velocity, note length (amazing how you can get some groove out a very simple bass with tweaking the notes to different length), octaves are the things you might go for. Playing with legato mode and adjusting glide can also help.

 

Also I'd suggest to seek for a particular emphasis between drums and bass. It has to interact, be sometimes contrapuntal, sometimes hit hard well together. Those crazy tracks have such a charm because they flow so well and imo you can just reach that by tweaking a lot by hand. I don't believe in plugins that do the (bad) job for you, producing random glitches or such, at least not for those kind of tasks. Randomness in more decent amounts and at some specific places can of course help though.

 

Well that's my two cents, nothing more that a personal point of view.

 

PS : I love Renoise and program almost all of my beats with it!

[Nil]

Can't you sequence your synths with Renoise and use both together ? I wouldn't use samples for an acid'ish bassline.

[Friendly Foil]

"The sound of soft synths..."

[mcbpete]

Aye (didn't want to say anything!), get Diva and your mind (and CPU) will be asplown.

[Nil]

I was talking hardware synth (wasn't clear, my bad) : sending MIDI sequences with Renoise, recording synth output back in Renoise. I guess it's doable (I've never used trackers).

And yeah, Diva is fucking amazing. In a mix, it's impossible to tell if it's a softsynth or not. Record at 24bit, use Divine mode et voilà. And then if it sounds bad, don't blame the tool :)

[sun drugs]

Are you wondering how to write good bass lines? If so, that's just something that needs to be practiced for a long time. Whatever VST, DAW or filter automation you use is irrelevant, as it is a purely compositional challenge.

 

If you're wondering how to get squelchy acid bass sounds, please carry on.

 

yeah i guess this is what its coming down to, gonna just experiment like there is no tomorrow.

 

thanks for the messages though got some good points, all taken on board.

 

in regards to sound of soft synths, personally, ive never heard one that comes close to some of the gear i have. im sure there are good ones but im my experience, it just doesn't have the sound im after.

Besides some high end uad stuff ive never found a reverb that can match my midiverb and quadraverb and ive never found a soft synth with the character as a sequential circuits six-trax or mc202. it does come down to personal taste i know but soft synths just isnt an option for me when you got hardware to play with.

I didnt want it to be a conversation about hardware or software because it really isnt the point, each to their own, thats why music is so exiting.

Think i need to get creative on some live tweaks and resampling of sounds. something i havent really played around with in a few years.

 

i dont really have the right soundcard to be running gear through renoise either, i could run 2 instruments but honestly im pretty cool with the jjos sequencer on the mpc, plus the modulation matrix on the emu ultra is pretty dope for some crazy filter modulations, will just get to work on it ;) that automater looks pretty sweet though, will have a play. I think because of only just getting into renoise properly im yet to have spent the time learning its real pros and cons in finer details of sound design and sequencing synths. there really is nothing like it for chopping drums though, great fun.

In no way am i blaming the gear i guess, i got more then most, just looking for some direction to kick off in, unexplored territory for me.

 

ive kinda answered my own questions but good to hear others opinions on what makes these tracks basslines work so well.

 

any other input/conversation is appreciated

[Guest skibby]

put a signal follower or LFO on a low pass filter with super high resonance, maybe a clipper after that for safety.

 

also, one good tip is the following: all sound is analogue, and the ear to brain converter is probly digital.

[Nil]

You can also use Renoise like a sampler with additional MIDI outputs, and incorporate it to your current workflow and set-up.

 

About SW/HW : hybrid all the way ! No matter the technology, some synths/effects sound amazing, and some sound like shit. Hardware doesn't equal good, software doesn't equal bad. My $0.02.

[sun drugs]

i do agree, once i get a 8in soundcard and a mixer with the appropriate outs ill be in the multitrack game. it really is the only way to get proper tracks down but the limitations of having a stereo out on the mixer is great fun for some basic techno/house, lots of live tweaks and little errors that i kinda dig. All in the feels hey

[Nil]

How are you currently working with your hardware ?

[sun drugs]

mpc 1000 as main sequencer with jjos. emu ultra handles a lot of synth work with + resampling other bits. have a 16 channel mixing desk. also use a dx100, xoxbox, mfb522 and a few other things.

Record everything into logic through soundcard left and right ins or to cassette deck if im going for that sound, although recently i have played around with recording everything in separately to logic and trying to mix and add bits and pieces for a better overall track. With the addition of renoise i have seen i can export renoise tracks seperatly so i will be able to mixdown easily in logic with the hardware setup. i just gotta be high to have the patience with logic to be honest. otherwise ill just start something new and never return to the old track unless its a special one

[Nil]

Ok ! Then what about using Renoise as a kind of sophisticated drum machine, MIDI/MTC sync'ed to your MPC, plugged into your mixer as any of your other synths/samplers ? It could be the simplest/seamless way to add Renoise to your current set-up and workflow, don't you think ?

[sun drugs]

yeah i might have a go at setting it up today. thanks for the help :)

may report back with some results

[Nil]

You're welcome, I'm happy if I can help ! ;)

[delet...]

b happy to hear.