Beginner Minimalistic setup

[Allize]

Hi guys, I'm thinking of buying some gear. I'm inexperienced in these things. I'm used to read conversations and threads about gear but that's mostly because the toys kinda fascinate me. I don't have alot of money either so i'm pointing to cheaper stuff.

 

I've been thinking on buying 2 machines from the volca series (havent decided wich, there's the beats, the sampler, the bass, and the keys one) or an akai rythm wolf + 2 machines from the volca series. In total that must account for 500$. What do you think?

[QQQ]

Do you want to go hardware only? I'm just starting out first time myself and started by buying a monotron to mess around with, then got the volca keys, the volca bass followed shortly after and a cheap drum machine from eBay (zoom 234). Also a mixer to hook it all up (Mackie proFX). Its enough to jam around on but if you want to go software too all you would need is a DAW and some keys and that gives way more freedom and options to start with.

 

Unless you already make music and just want to get some hardware? I haven't heard great things about the rhythm wolf.

[Allize]

Not full hardware, I'd use a DAW. But yes I think I'd prefer to learn my ways through hardware and analogue. I also thought about the monotron but it looked too limited.

Do you recommend your setup? How much did you spend in total?

[Lucas]

I think you could easily have post that into EKT for more exposure (maybe a mod can fix that).

 

I first thought you were actually willing to start with music making and acquire a couple of simple machines to get a basic workflow. The fact you already use a DAW quite changes the possible answers. But you should probably think about what kind of instrument you would like to have especially, or which one you miss with software. Then you might want to consider buying something second hand, which could lead you to more powerful gear for the same amount of money.

 

I don't own any of the Volcas but I tried the Bass a little bit. I found it really nice to use and was thinking about buying one but I already have a Monotribe (midified) and I thought it was not so a good idea to buy a similar synth, which is also quite basic. The comments on WATMM about some parts of the Volcas not working after a couple of months also lead me to that decision.

 

(shit I accidentally posted the thread so I can just edit now, part 2 of that reply in a second post)

[QQQ]

The volcas can be picked up for less than £100 each now minus maybe the new sampler, the mixer was £179 (its also USB so I use it as an interface as well). The zoom was about £30, another £30 for the monotron. Overall I've spent around £500-£600 including a USB keyboard (another £100ish), £20 on a DAW (logic) and I have just ordered a tascam dr05 2nd hand from eBay for sample collecting and recording which was another £50... But I have a bad habit of wanting to collect and expand fast so you don't need to spend even close to that much, and everything I have can be gotten much cheaper (the mixer and KB at least).

 

I have just had a jam on the hardware I have (volcas and the drum machine). You can definitely make music with less than that but it depends on what you want to make and how limited the sound might be. The volcas are fairly limited but it really depends on how much you dig the sound. I plan to add more stuff as time goes on but if you want to stick to a basic set up for a while there are smarter places to put your money for a more expansive sound pallet.

 

If there's a specific genre/sound you hope to get into then there may be hardware/instruments more suited to it but otherwise I think the best thing to do would be to get some bits that you think you'll enjoy using and inspire you.

 

Edit: if you want a more expansive sound without buying too many pieces the korg electribe family might be good to look into. They have just released a new one for around £300 - £350 I think or you can get a 2nd hand older model (which look beautiful) 2nd hand without much problem.

[Lucas]

anyway you might not need an onboard sequencer if you want to sequence with your DAW.

 

hard to give you precise advice without more details on what you're after in terms of sound and general capabilities. but 500$ is a nice budget for a first hardware purchase, especially if you buy second hand. And if you don't have any experience with hardware I suppose you will be discovering something very exciting soon!

[Danny O Flannagin]

I've always felt that my hardware setup is based on my sampler, roland sp 303. I strongly recommend starting with a sampler because samplers are the most versatile piece of gear where as drum machines and synths are limited in what they can output. With a budget of 500 bucks, you could easily get an MPC. Or you could get a setup like mine: SP 303 ($200), Microkorg($200), and Tascam DR 05 field recorder($75)

 

Although gear is fun, I'm not that serious in that area. I make what i consider my best music from Ableton and you could definitely buy Ableton standard with 500 dollars.

 

 

The volcas can be picked up for less than £100 each now minus maybe the new sampler, the mixer was £179 (its also USB so I use it as an interface as well). The zoom was about £30, another £30 for the monotron. Overall I've spent around £500-£600 including a USB keyboard (another £100ish), £20 on a DAW (logic) and I have just ordered a tascam dr05 2nd hand from eBay for sample collecting and recording which was another £50... But I have a bad habit of wanting to collect and expand fast so you don't need to spend even close to that much, and everything I have can be gotten much cheaper (the mixer and KB at least).

Again, strongly recommend this field recorder, amazing quality for its price

[Allize]

Thanks for the advice guys.
The electribe looks like a good deal but it's ugly as hell.

 

anyway you might not need an onboard sequencer if you want to sequence with your DAW.

 

hard to give you precise advice without more details on what you're after in terms of sound and general capabilities. but 500$ is a nice budget for a first hardware purchase, especially if you buy second hand. And if you don't have any experience with hardware I suppose you will be discovering something very exciting soon!

 

I'm looking for experimentation. Working on a daw doesn't inspire me much. I think that having hands on versatile equipement may change and improve my output.

[Lucas]

the only thing about buying something "versatile" like an Electribe (I mean a machine capable of doing beats and simple melody lines) is that it could overlap with what your DAW does. Given the price you want to invest, you won't be able to get something too powerful and the machine you will end up to buy might seem limited in comparison with your DAW. What I mean is, if you intend to sequence with your DAW, I'd recommend to get one or a couple of unit with nice controls. The Volcas are probably a good idea, just don't expect something with a too good build quality.

 

My first hardware gear was an Electribe SX1. It felt like a whole new world opening to me when I started with it but given its limitation and the music I was doing at that time, I couldn't think about stopping using Renoise and Reaper with all the vsts. I quickly figured out that it would be hard to combine it fully with my DAW so I ended up using it for jaming and sometimes getting basic ideas for tracks, and I also used the two synth tracks in the context of my Reaper/Renoise tracks (sending MIDI from Reaper). but I never stopped using this Electribe and since a couple of months it's my main beat machine as I have enough gear to take a break from the computer. It works great in that context despite its limitations.

 

so it all depends on the context you will use the gear but in your case I think it would be better to go for sound moules dedicated to particular tasks (mono/bass synth, poly synth, beat machine, effect pedals...).

[tokn]

electribes are fun machines and not ugly at all

 

anyway, short answer: get the keys AND the beats OR the sampler OR another little sampler/drummachine. dont get the akai thing it gets terrible reviews about everywhere.

[Nil]

If you plan to use a DAW, you can also go for a less restricted piece of gear ? For exemple, a Korg MS20 mini is $600, Arturia MiniBrute is $500, MicroBrute $300... and these are the prices when bought brand new. You might find those synths more rewarding than any of the Volcas. You might find a nice sampler for cheap too if you don't want to use the DAW for that purpose.

 

You can also go fully hybrid, and pick a nice mono-synth 2nd-hand, and buy a (2nd hand) licence for U-He Diva (fantastic bang for the bucks, and arguably the best sounding software synth you'll find), and have all your synth needs cover.

 

I'm currently completing an "ITB" LP done basically with the marvelous "Five12 Numerology + Launchpad" combo, a Keith McMillen QuNexus (fantastic little MIDI keyboard), U-He Diva and Valhalla reverbs (they sound amazing). Quite a limited yet inspiring set-up. Affordable as well.

 

I bought an Analog 4 six months ago, which is gathering dust until my LP is done (or else I'll never finish it), and plan to get a Rytm as well, to use both those Elektron units together, and to easily integrate them with DAW if needed. I'd love to write tunes solely with the A4 and Rytm... and an instance or two of Diva if I want to. To me, it's important to keep it all simple yet versatile and inspiring.

 

There are many options really. Less is more : you'd certainly be more creative with a couple of carefully chosen pieces of gear, be they hardware, software, digital or analog... than with more gear bought because of its affordability rather than its sound and/or workflow.

 

Even If you're a beginner, don't hesitate to spend your budget in one piece of gear you like the sound of, instead of several less capable/less inspiring ones. I bet you'll spend more time jamming it and get more rewarding results, sooner.

 

I hope it helps.

[pizza]

I'd start with just a DAW, learn some basic synthesis from VSTs, basic mixing stuff etc. then buy some synths or whatever you feel like you miss from using only a DAW.

[Lucas]

I'd start with just a DAW, learn some basic synthesis from VSTs, basic mixing stuff etc. then buy some synths or whatever you feel like you miss from using only a DAW.

 

I did it this way around but since I make more stuff with hardware I feel like it's not the more logical way to go. Hardware bring you a lot more limitation than a DAW (which is, basically, a mixer with an "infinite" number of tracks, effects, instruments, etc..), and being stuck in those boundaries makes your creative energy find more focus. This kind of environment strongly favourites the learning and I think it's better to go through this and then to progressively evolve towards a more opened environment (a DAW, Aphex studios, etc..).

 

I remember my first year of studies in video editing, we were all complaining that the teachers only allowed us to edit with old tape editing decks (at the time when they were about to disappear completely from the profession). The year after that we started with software, and with some distance this way of learning makes perfect sense. thank you teachers (those two were real assholes though)

[Squee]

But making your stuff sound great is all about knowing your DAW and being able to use its features.

[Lucas]

I'm not sure I get what you mean there, I suppose it depends on how you define "sound great". If you talk about the mixing it's true that you can use tons of good and free plugins in a DAW and you can definitely use those to make your mix sound great. You need a certain amount of money to access similar tools with hardware (a good mixer and some mixing FXs) but there's more to it. On a hardware setup you're limited to the control you've got and thus have to think twice about the use of each of these controls. This pushes you to care more about the influence on the general context of the mix each time you use something and tends to make you mix more "efficient", which eventually gives a stronger impression of cohesion on the final result. Also, that kind of setup involves your body more and I'm convinced it has an influence on inspiration.

 

musically I come straight from the computer world but I'm amazed to realize the sound quality I can afford with this Soundcraft GB2R-16 I bought less than a year ago. I really didn't expect I would simply plug all my hardware in it and record its stereo output, using Reaper just for doing a quick mastering.

 

and if by "sound great" you mean having a broader sound palette and an access to a more detailed sound (in the direction of sound design maybe?), I guess I could argue the same idea.

 

anyway I just wanted to say I think it's more logical to learn with hardware and to use computers more extensively once you've learned how to do stuff with this "condemned to efficiency" approach. otherwise you might sink into the world of the always-opened possibilities and lose some inspiration into it. maybe that's just my experience though.

[Squee]

I mean mix-wise. But again, this is all a matter of taste.

I would recommend anyone to just go for it and then find out for themselves what they need and don't need as they go along. That way you don't end up with a whole bunch of crap which will only end up confusing you. Focus on one thing at a time, get good at that one thing, move on to the next thing, then back again with your new gained knowledge about that other thing and so on.

Your equipment is only as good as you are and practice makes perfect.

[Nil]

I pretty much agree with Pizza and Squee.

 

A DAW-centric studio can be as simple or complex as you want it to be. I went through the hoops of trying all VST(I)s... and my plugin-folder now consists of 1 Eq, 1 Compressor, 3 Verbs and 2 delays that don't overlap each others, a couple of synths and drum machines/samplers and that's it.

 

IMHO, what imports the most is having tools you love and (get to) know like the back of your hand, to keep being inspired / having fun when making music. Some software can sound as good as nice hardware.

 

If i was on a budget and already own a computer, I'd :

- buy both a QuNexus and QuNeo and a copy of Ableton Live 9

- download Tokyo Dawn Labs free yet utterly amazing SlickEQ and Kotelnikov for all mixing duty. Fantastic sound quality and workflow, not a tons of useless options. Much better than DAW's stock plugins and than many expensive plugins (really !).

- buy Valhalla Vintage Verb (sounds lush, braindance heaven) and a copy of U-He Diva (sorry for the propaganda, but it worths it)

et voilà.

 

You can find some great deals second-hand if you dig in WATMM / Gearslutz / KVR's marketplaces.

[Allize]

 

I'd start with just a DAW, learn some basic synthesis from VSTs, basic mixing stuff etc. then buy some synths or whatever you feel like you miss from using only a DAW.

 

I did it this way around but since I make more stuff with hardware I feel like it's not the more logical way to go. Hardware bring you a lot more limitation than a DAW (which is, basically, a mixer with an "infinite" number of tracks, effects, instruments, etc..), and being stuck in those boundaries makes your creative energy find more focus. This kind of environment strongly favourites the learning and I think it's better to go through this and then to progressively evolve towards a more opened environment (a DAW, Aphex studios, etc..).

 

I remember my first year of studies in video editing, we were all complaining that the teachers only allowed us to edit with old tape editing decks (at the time when they were about to disappear completely from the profession). The year after that we started with software, and with some distance this way of learning makes perfect sense. thank you teachers (those two were real assholes though)

 

 

That was my thinking... As a beginner, using a daw has just too much possibilites. Learning the basics hands on, step by step, getting around the limitations and knowing the equipement inch by inch seemed to be the way. I use ableton btw, and I have tons of plug ins on it but I struggle to do/finish anything.

 

 

[Allize]

Also, as far as I know analog sounds better...

[Nil]

It depends A LOT :)

[Lucas]

I mean mix-wise. But again, this is all a matter of taste.

I would recommend anyone to just go for it and then find out for themselves what they need and don't need as they go along. That way you don't end up with a whole bunch of crap which will only end up confusing you. Focus on one thing at a time, get good at that one thing, move on to the next thing, then back again with your new gained knowledge about that other thing and so on.

Your equipment is only as good as you are and practice makes perfect.

 

i think you nailed it, not much more to say.

 

According to your posts Alizee, I think you will like to do some knob twiddling, you just have to decide if you buy one machine or several. like it's been already pointed out, buying one machine with your budget (especially if you go for second hand) would allow you to have a pretty consistent first synth, but going for a couple of a little bit more limited/cheap machines might be nice as well for more versatility and "first taste". just do it like you feel, I don't think you'll regret it anyway. better if you can go to a store and try stuff, it definitely helps to get rid of some possibilities because some synths you'll have been recommended will give you a better impression than others.

 

you can also check reviews on internet. I particularly like the Sonic Lab ones (they do quite a lot of vids for entry budget synths).

 

good luck and don't hesitate to post again for more questions.

[Squee]

It depends A LOT :)

 

This.

Also, most people can't tell the difference. I remember when I started making music, which sounded like shit btw, someone online said to me, "It's obvious that you use analogue equipment".

Wut?

[QQQ]

Did you end up getting anything?