Tubes

[TRiP]

Yo all,

Just wondering if anyone has any experience with Tube related gear?

Been looking in 'cheap' tube based distortion pedals/compressors too add some grit and punch to my gear

 

Was watching that 'I Dream in Wires' docu and thought the guy making the Tube-based Modular gear seemed pretty interesting (forget his name, but all the modules were yellow) [[not looking for modular products, but to note]]

 

So far been looking at the Blackstar HT DISTX as a pedal and the Behringer T1952 Tube Composer as a compressor/limiter type thing (although I havn't heard very good things about it) but open to suggestions!

 

Thoughts? Anyone rocking any nifty dirty pedals/untis to kick their gear up? Or are the tales of tubes nothing but a fallacy!?

[LimpyLoo]

avoid starved plate designs...it is rubbish (and not actually tube gear)

i would bet money that the Behringer is a starved plate design

 

maybe look at EHX's tube stuff

[Ingwe]

Most new cheap tube gear is a scam, the tube is just there for looks really - the audio may pass through it but it doesn't actually do anything.

the Metasonix stuff you described is real tube gear, i think they make pedals as well as eurorack.

 

real tube gear, vintage or modern, can be really nice but is generally not cheap. a guitar amp might be the cheapest way to get into tube-based distortion.

[TubularCorporation]

Not cheap, but a great source of tube distortion:

 

http://warmenfat.com/

[Guest Chesney]

I have a Stereo pre built from REDD EMI console parts. It's lovely to run drum tracks through for punch and gluing mixes. It does not work for stereo synths and stuff like that as you lose stereo and sparkle in places. So knowing where to use it is key to seeing whether Valve stuff is worth it or not.

I love it and sounds really broken with gain cranked in a really cool way.

[ganus]

I posted about it in another thread recently, what you probably want to do is buy a cheap tube distortion pedal like this http://www.amazon.com/BEHRINGER-VINTAGE-TUBE-MONSTER-VT999/dp/B000W00X1Y?tag=duckduckgo-fpas-20

 

And swap out the Chinese tubes for vintage tubes or other tubes of the same type. I have Rayethon and Baldwin organ tubes, which are warm sounding and take off some of the highs, a Toshiba tube which adds a clean, gradual distortion, and some shitty Hammond tubes that start sounding gritty as soon as there's even a little gain. Got em all on eBay.

 

It's not always a super noticeable effect vs other forms of distortion in tone and compression, like with really simple synth tones. It is very noticeable with a bass or guitars, or on vocals. synth drums are good too.

 

a lot of amps have 2 tubes as well, I hear guitar and bass amps can add something pretty special when used right.

 

That is interesting to hear that tubes are ornamental in some gear, have any more info? I am curious.

[LimpyLoo]

I posted about it in another thread recently, what you probably want to do is buy a cheap tube distortion pedal like this http://www.amazon.com/BEHRINGER-VINTAGE-TUBE-MONSTER-VT999/dp/B000W00X1Y?tag=duckduckgo-fpas-20

 

And swap out the Chinese tubes for vintage tubes or other tubes of the same type. I have Rayethon and Baldwin organ tubes, which are warm sounding and take off some of the highs, a Toshiba tube which adds a clean, gradual distortion, and some shitty Hammond tubes that start sounding gritty as soon as there's even a little gain. Got em all on eBay.

 

It's not always a super noticeable effect vs other forms of distortion in tone and compression, like with really simple synth tones. It is very noticeable with a bass or guitars, or on vocals. synth drums are good too.

 

a lot of amps have 2 tubes as well, I hear guitar and bass amps can add something pretty special when used right.

 

That is interesting to hear that tubes are ornamental in some gear, have any more info? I am curious.

 

as i said above, i would bet that Behringer stuff is starved plated

judging by the price, i would nearly stake my life on it

[TRiP]

I posted about it in another thread recently, what you probably want to do is buy a cheap tube distortion pedal like this http://www.amazon.com/BEHRINGER-VINTAGE-TUBE-MONSTER-VT999/dp/B000W00X1Y?tag=duckduckgo-fpas-20

 

And swap out the Chinese tubes for vintage tubes or other tubes of the same type. I have Rayethon and Baldwin organ tubes, which are warm sounding and take off some of the highs, a Toshiba tube which adds a clean, gradual distortion, and some shitty Hammond tubes that start sounding gritty as soon as there's even a little gain. Got em all on eBay.

 

It's not always a super noticeable effect vs other forms of distortion in tone and compression, like with really simple synth tones. It is very noticeable with a bass or guitars, or on vocals. synth drums are good too.

 

a lot of amps have 2 tubes as well, I hear guitar and bass amps can add something pretty special when used right.

 

That is interesting to hear that tubes are ornamental in some gear, have any more info? I am curious.

 

neat idea! How pricey were the extra tubes? Much hassle swapping them out?

[Ingwe]

I posted about it in another thread recently, what you probably want to do is buy a cheap tube distortion pedal like this http://www.amazon.com/BEHRINGER-VINTAGE-TUBE-MONSTER-VT999/dp/B000W00X1Y?tag=duckduckgo-fpas-20

 

And swap out the Chinese tubes for vintage tubes or other tubes of the same type. I have Rayethon and Baldwin organ tubes, which are warm sounding and take off some of the highs, a Toshiba tube which adds a clean, gradual distortion, and some shitty Hammond tubes that start sounding gritty as soon as there's even a little gain. Got em all on eBay.

 

It's not always a super noticeable effect vs other forms of distortion in tone and compression, like with really simple synth tones. It is very noticeable with a bass or guitars, or on vocals. synth drums are good too.

 

a lot of amps have 2 tubes as well, I hear guitar and bass amps can add something pretty special when used right.

 

That is interesting to hear that tubes are ornamental in some gear, have any more info? I am curious.

 

in a vintage or traditional tube design, the tubes are an integral part of the circuit. i.e. the tubes are literally amplifying the signal (or acting as makeup gain in a compressor). this requires a lot of voltage and fairly expensive circuitry to keep the tubes running properly.

in cheap starved-plate designs like the behringer, the pedal is actually a completely solid-state design, and the audio is just run through the tube as an effect. the tube is not integral to the design, if you bypassed it on the circuit board the pedal would still work.

the tubes in these designs are not properly powered, which causes them to distort the signal - but in a completely different way than a traditional tube amp or pedal would. (with a totally different sound).

[Haste]

The Blackstar pedals are 300v from memory. Plenty of voltage there.

[ganus]

 

 

 

I posted about it in another thread recently, what you probably want to do is buy a cheap tube distortion pedal like this http://www.amazon.com/BEHRINGER-VINTAGE-TUBE-MONSTER-VT999/dp/B000W00X1Y?tag=duckduckgo-fpas-20

 

And swap out the Chinese tubes for vintage tubes or other tubes of the same type. I have Rayethon and Baldwin organ tubes, which are warm sounding and take off some of the highs, a Toshiba tube which adds a clean, gradual distortion, and some shitty Hammond tubes that start sounding gritty as soon as there's even a little gain. Got em all on eBay.

 

It's not always a super noticeable effect vs other forms of distortion in tone and compression, like with really simple synth tones. It is very noticeable with a bass or guitars, or on vocals. synth drums are good too.

 

a lot of amps have 2 tubes as well, I hear guitar and bass amps can add something pretty special when used right.

 

That is interesting to hear that tubes are ornamental in some gear, have any more info? I am curious.

 

in a vintage or traditional tube design, the tubes are an integral part of the circuit. i.e. the tubes are literally amplifying the signal (or acting as makeup gain in a compressor). this requires a lot of voltage and fairly expensive circuitry to keep the tubes running properly.

in cheap starved-plate designs like the behringer, the pedal is actually a completely solid-state design, and the audio is just run through the tube as an effect. the tube is not integral to the design, if you bypassed it on the circuit board the pedal would still work.

the tubes in these designs are not properly powered, which causes them to distort the signal - but in a completely different way than a traditional tube amp or pedal would. (with a totally different sound).

Thanks, that's good to know. Do you know about older guitar/bass amps with subes, or any other electronics that might have this type of amplifier for a reasonable price?

 

One might be able to get the circuit from an organ, if it's older than the 1970 or whatevs

[Ingwe]

most amps made up until the late 70s/early 80s are tube, there are lots of proper tube amps made today still as well. you can find a smaller used combo type amp for a couple hundred.

yeah older organs had tube amps in them too, as did older stereo amplifiers. these might be on the subtle side unless you can find a way to overdrive them.

[ganus]

TRiP, in my experience it's $10 or so a piece for good, tested tubes, and more for the rare ones. Some random cheaper auctions on found tubes.

 

There are probably cheaper pedals than that Behringer, it was on sale when I bought it. The EQ is nice though. The tube swap is easy, just open the back and it's right there, not locked down or hidden.

[TubularCorporation]

I do think starved plate designs have their uses, but it's good to know what you're getting in to with them. They don't sound like "real" tube gear but they can have their own thing going on.

[lala]

 

One of my favourite modules

[LimpyLoo]

I do think starved plate designs have their uses, but it's good to know what you're getting in to with them. They don't sound like "real" tube gear but they can have their own thing going on.

 

There's nothing like the warmth of integrated circuits.

[ganus]

I just want to point out that hating on ICs is totally ridiculous

 

Anyone know what kind of algorithms vst simulations of tubes use? Obviously not boiling any electrons

[LimpyLoo]

I just want to point out that hating on ICs is totally ridiculous

 

Anyone know what kind of algorithms vst simulations of tubes use? Obviously not boiling any electrons

 

i love integrated circuits

i am not anti-digital whatsoever

and whenever i see a "i wanna get an analog poly...my budget is $400" thread

I get a darting pain in my neck

because there's so much great digital stuff you can get for crazy cheap

but people are hung-up on analog, even when it makes no sense

so they get something like an Alpha Juno

instead of a nice workhouse digital poly (e.g. MicroKorg, which I praise every chance I get)

just so they can say they have an analog poly or whatever

 

but having said all that

this is a tube thread, after all

and so if we're gonna recommend starved plate tube gear

we might as well just recommend good-sounding non-tube gear

because OP is just straight up gonna be disappointed with some $40 Behringer "tube" preamp or whatever

 

But anyway, I recommend OP looks into EHX's tube stuff

http://www.ehx.com/browse/tube-pedals

unfortunately, all the demos on YouTube are total shit

but the LPB-2ube line-level preamp is currently on the top of my 'to buy' list

 

and as much as I love tube gear, it's nice to get some perspective

this video is interesting, and the moral is not what you'd expect from the title:

[ganus]

Okay, we all want perfect gear. It's a 50 dollars for a good distortion effect with an EQ. Personally, I will never justify purchasing a $300 dollar pre-amp. I will scrounge it if I can get it

[ganus]

Here is an article about using starved plate for distortion: http://www.studiotrax.net/forums/showthread.php?39953-quot-Starved-Plate-quot-pre-s-not-a-negative-!

 

Makes sense to me from what I've heard of tube pre-amps. tldr: Starved plate works well when looking for a tube "effect", and like Limpy was elluding to, a tube pre-amp wouldn't have an obvious warming effect, would be a "cleaner" sound. Depends what you're looking for I guess

[TubularCorporation]