TRiP Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Yo - so every time myself and fellow band mate play a gig we flirt closer and closer with disaster We currently use Ableton 9 + APC 40 to control and sequence all our hardware The problem is Ableton runs rather bugg'ly on both our laptops, and if ever a 'restart' is needed (which is generally the case) it takes so long for the laptop to fully load back that it can eat away massive chunks of important set-up time...or worse, mid-set! So i'm just wondering if anyone can suggest a similar clip/scene jamm'able MIDI sequencer interface that could replace Ableton? We sequence at least 5 to 6 bits of gear at once so Beatstep Pro is out of the question i'm guessing. I have the Zaquencer, but it's not ideal.I don't suppose the Push or the Launchpad Pro supports stand alone imported ableton sessions, without the need of a laptop?...if not, how does that product not exist already?! Would MPC's or Maschines be what i'd be looking for...or any other suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th555 Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Five12 Numerology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRiP Posted October 12, 2015 Author Share Posted October 12, 2015 Five12 Numerology. I would love to explore Numerology, but I don't think it's a realistic alternative, my fellow band mate has a mac mini, but he uses it exclusively for his own studio audio work...so unlikely we could gig it around can you use an APC 40 with it? or similar clip/scene launchable interface? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ded4m Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 The real question would be : do you want to get rid of laptops on stage ? If not, usine II hollyhock could be a really game changing solution as you could make your own application to suit only what you need and nothing else ! ( plus u can make yout own vst out of your setup ) Maschine is really stable and solid config for live use. It was gathering dust in my studio and since live jams are comming it automatically got out of the closet. I'm not using it as master though since I always find the midi out routing configuration to be either buggy or somewhat counterintutive. There have been two updates since, I hope it's better now... Bitwig could be an alternative to ableton with its similar clip laucher mode and it's probably the faster loading project DAW ever seen ! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th555 Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Five12 Numerology. I would love to explore Numerology, but I don't think it's a realistic alternative, my fellow band mate has a mac mini, but he uses it exclusively for his own studio audio work...so unlikely we could gig it around can you use an APC 40 with it? or similar clip/scene launchable interface? Still meaning to try it out some day, didn't even realize it was mac only. Should work well with Launchpad, that's all I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TubularCorporation Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Seconding Usine Hollyhock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xox Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Trip, are you talking about restarting of your laptop or just ableton? Cause i upgraded my 2011 mbp's hdd to an ssd (samsung 850 evo) and now the laptop restarts in 10-12 sec and ableton restarts in 6-7 sec (...all cca). Before, with hdd inside, it was hell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digman Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Trip, are you talking about restarting of your laptop or just ableton? Cause i upgraded my 2011 mbp's hdd to an ssd (samsung 850 evo) and now the laptop restarts in 10-12 sec and ableton restarts in 6-7 sec (...all cca). Before, with hdd inside, it was hell! +1 to this, my early 2011 macbook pro got a new SSD and it runs like a new computer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Member Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I concur, ableton on a lappy with an ssd is day and night stability wise, at least for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRiP Posted October 12, 2015 Author Share Posted October 12, 2015 The real question would be : do you want to get rid of laptops on stage ? Maschine is really stable and solid config for live use. It was gathering dust in my studio and since live jams are comming it automatically got out of the closet. Ideally yes! :) removing the laptop from the stage would be great - does Maschine work in a similar jammable clip/scene launching way as Ableton does? Trip, are you talking about restarting of your laptop or just ableton? Cause i upgraded my 2011 mbp's hdd to an ssd (samsung 850 evo) and now the laptop restarts in 10-12 sec and ableton restarts in 6-7 sec (...all cca). Before, with hdd inside, it was hell! +1 to this, my early 2011 macbook pro got a new SSD and it runs like a new computer Innnteresting... how much did the whole endeavour cost you? Could be a realistic solution...but still would love to remove the laptop from the whole live equation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xox Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 The real question would be : do you want to get rid of laptops on stage ? Maschine is really stable and solid config for live use. It was gathering dust in my studio and since live jams are comming it automatically got out of the closet. Ideally yes! :) removing the laptop from the stage would be great - does Maschine work in a similar jammable clip/scene launching way as Ableton does? Trip, are you talking about restarting of your laptop or just ableton? Cause i upgraded my 2011 mbp's hdd to an ssd (samsung 850 evo) and now the laptop restarts in 10-12 sec and ableton restarts in 6-7 sec (...all cca). Before, with hdd inside, it was hell! +1 to this, my early 2011 macbook pro got a new SSD and it runs like a new computer Innnteresting... how much did the whole endeavour cost you? Could be a realistic solution...but still would love to remove the laptop from the whole live equation i bought it in a computer store in croatia for about 120 euros but you can find it for less fo sure in ireland or on the net http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-2-5-Inch-Internal-MZ-75E250B-AM/dp/B00OAJ412U ...i didn't want to wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ded4m Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Ideally yes! :) removing the laptop from the stage would be great - does Maschine work in a similar jammable clip/scene launching way as Ableton does? Maschine won't let you go without a computer unfortunately...You can use it as a standalone controller with templates for almost every imaginable daw out there but templates require a computer to edit/load etc...What makes Maschine interesting is the interaction and flexibility between the controller and software, it is never as good as Maschine hardware + software... Maschine do not work with clip launcher, it works within a pattern/group environement. U have different scene u can visualize in a timeline and you can jump to the one u want. Each scene contains setup for groups ( u are not limited in group numbers ) and each group contains 16 tracks. Each track can contain vst, sample,kits etc... Each track can call 16 different patterns which can be of any lenght. But, in each scene, the duration will be equal to the longest pattern used. Other groups will be looped with the active pattern to fit the duration of scene. You really have to think about it as a MPC style workflow and it excels in it. As a DAW it will be frustration above all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRiP Posted October 12, 2015 Author Share Posted October 12, 2015 i bought it in a computer store in croatia for about 120 euros but you can find it for less fo sure in ireland or on the net http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-2-5-Inch-Internal-MZ-75E250B-AM/dp/B00OAJ412U ...i didn't want to wait. Sweet, will keep this in mind....might even consider getting a small SSD lappy top that purely runs Ableton Ideally yes! :) removing the laptop from the stage would be great - does Maschine work in a similar jammable clip/scene launching way as Ableton does? Maschine won't let you go without a computer unfortunately...You can use it as a standalone controller with templates for almost every imaginable daw out there but templates require a computer to edit/load etc...What makes Maschine interesting is the interaction and flexibility between the controller and software, it is never as good as Maschine hardware + software... Maschine do not work with clip launcher, it works within a pattern/group environement. U have different scene u can visualize in a timeline and you can jump to the one u want. Each scene contains setup for groups ( u are not limited in group numbers ) and each group contains 16 tracks. Each track can contain vst, sample,kits etc... Each track can call 16 different patterns which can be of any lenght. But, in each scene, the duration will be equal to the longest pattern used. Other groups will be looped with the active pattern to fit the duration of scene. You really have to think about it as a MPC style workflow and it excels in it. As a DAW it will be frustration above all... that's a shame! Do you recon MPC's would work in a standalone fashion for what i'm after?...or do they not have a very 'jammable' interface, and are better suited to composing songs in a linear fashion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ded4m Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 With a bit of learning curve, Usine could be what your are looking for. I'm trying to make my head around it atm and I find it quite rewarding and powerful. I really don't know about the mpc since I never owned one, but it's jammed on with great success for ages ! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audioblysk Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Bitwig + SSD +Failbleton killer - well sorta, they're both great in different ways. I personally have been re-learning my DAW workflow with Cubase and Bitwig. I go to Live 9 when I want to jam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryancolecreate Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 mpc1000 with the lowest paid jjos has a feature called "next sequence" which lets you assign patterns to the pads, and to trigger them like clips. You can even have them launch mid-pattern while still keeping the beat, so you can do fills and stuff. The main difference is that an MPC pattern contains all tracks. So you have to change all the tracks together. That said, Numerology is unknowably fun to jam with, and if you really get into building stacks you can do some really cool stuff, far beyond what ableton is capable of. For instance having notes for a synth coming from one stack with it's own clips, gate from another, and a control change sequence from another, and change them all independently. You can build an entire, very diverse track from like 3 clips in each stack that way. It goes way beyond simple clip launching ala Ableton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ded4m Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Numerology...Why should I ever want a Mac...This ! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryancolecreate Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 If you're not running loads of AUs then you dont even need a powerful machine. I have an iBook g4 that I still jam with!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbpete Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I'd say concentrate on slimlining the Ableton setup and Windows install more than finding a live alternative. The above ssd suggestion is definitely a goodie, if you can't afford that (like I couldn't) another option is to get a hybrid ssd drive. Slightly more expensive than regular spinning disks but a definite improvement in loading times. In my eyes as Live is used almost universally as a live tool (like almost every live set has Live behind it!) I definitely look at it as the current de-facto tool. Ps cheeky question but is your copy of live a legit one? Had various versions of Live 7 & 8 that were dodgy and it was a nightmare with stability and would get worse over time. When I finally bought it things were so different - I'd only ever get crashes with trying out shonky decade old vsts, but apart from that: solid as a rock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ded4m Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 I own ableton and the only things that make it crash from time to time are Kontakt and Max4live...For the rest, as you said rock solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRiP Posted October 14, 2015 Author Share Posted October 14, 2015 Mmm...this is all really good food for thought. Why might I ask are people suggesting Bitwig as a better alternative? Is it more stable? I should note that i'll never be composing or creating songs with it, purely just using it in live situations. I'd say concentrate on slimlining the Ableton setup and Windows install more than finding a live alternative. The above ssd suggestion is definitely a goodie, if you can't afford that (like I couldn't) another option is to get a hybrid ssd drive. Slightly more expensive than regular spinning disks but a definite improvement in loading times.In my eyes as Live is used almost universally as a live tool (like almost every live set has Live behind it!) I definitely look at it as the current de-facto tool.Ps cheeky question but is your copy of live a legit one? Had various versions of Live 7 & 8 that were dodgy and it was a nightmare with stability and would get worse over time. When I finally bought it things were so different - I'd only ever get crashes with trying out shonky decade old vsts, but apart from that: solid as a rock! Words of wisdom. I think you're right, no sense in trying to hide or change another programs to fit the mold of Ableton - it does exactly what we need, so we should just make better efforts to make it more 'comfortable' - any extra money which we'd throw at a new set-up could probably go towards greasing ableton up nice and smooth ...and in terms of the cheeky question - no comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ded4m Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Why might I ask are people suggesting Bitwig as a better alternative? Probably because Bitwig is made by "dissident ableton team" which took into consideration what ableton users were asking for. They made a pretty similar software and included straight in, features that only exist in max4live devices. It is said that under the hood, Bitwig is a full modular software and that all modules have been developped using the hidden modular core which should be released within V2.0 Bitwig releses very regular updates and as a challenger seems to listen to his userbase more. Ableton is still a more "mature" piece of software though...( Bitwig only had tracks grouping recently for example...) What makes it a choice worth condidering today and not on an hypothetic futur modulare relese imo would be : - Price - Native modulations (No need for max) - Auto bridge of plugins - Threads handling for vst ( Vst are handled in their own thread and when they crash, they crash alone ! ) - I don't have Push but I heard numerous users complaining that they had more functions within Bitwig than live !!!! You probably already know the qualities of ableton, I won't get there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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