Will he ever do anything in the style of On again?

[purlieu]

I get where he's coming from in a way. I do think there's as much good music around as ever, but there is more shit these days because everyone thinks they're a producer.

This has nothing to do with simplicity or complexity though.

[killabyte11]

 

 I don't have the time to go into just how wrong and off point you are

how aboot posting one of your tunes to show how wrong and off point everyone is

 

 

HAH why would I purposely subject myself to the myriad of trolls that frequent this board? 

[Klopjob]

HAH why would I purposely subject myself to the myriad of trolls that frequent this board? 

[zazen]

I dont agree with some of the things killabyte11 is saying but asking him to 'post his tunes' is not relevant to the discussion we are having - which is about how to place/judge On within RDJs body of work. Looks like you guys have some beef from some other thread or something.

 

So lets talk about On.

 

Mr killabyte11 you took issue with someone calling On 'amateur' and to a degree I appreciate how outraged you are about that. Amateur is not a word that often gets applied to RDJ tracks.

 

But I think if you listen to On and say Cuckoo and a lot of the pre-93 tracks that came before, they are quite repetitive.

Say for example when I listen to Metapharstic I love the first 30 seconds or so because it is so atmospheric but then practically nothing else happens for the rest of the 4min33 seconds. It just repeats.

 

Now its fine to say things like 'well I like repetitive tracks' and 'RDJ was into exploring repetition at that time' but to me if you look at the stuff he did later, say Drukqs and Analord, there is less repetition and more progress/changes happening within each track.

 

(And of course we take it as a given that repetition of some sort is vital for music really)

 

Its absolutely fine to say you prefer the early stuff but my point is that, to me, its pretty clear that Aphex became a more skilled musician over the years. At first he was really good with gear and production and inventiveness but not so good at introducing variation within a track. Later stuff he has all the earlier skills but is also better at variation, progression, whatever you want to call it.

 

Its from that sort of viewpoint from which one might refer to 'On' as amateur.

 

So killabyte11 obviously I'm not going to tell you which tracks you should like or which are 'better' but will you concede that its possible to have a good understanding of music and RDJs back catalogue and arrive at the opinion that the early stuff is less skillful?

 

That is - I don't take issue with you opinions about the music but I do take issue with you calling us MTV noobs for having different opinions from you.

[Key]

I'd say the repetitive nature of the pre-93 stuff is partly down to Rich's more limited skillset, partly down to the limitations of the technology he had available at the time, (memory on hardware sequencers, mixing down live to tape) Also he came from a background of listening to techno which also utilized the same technologies and had a more kind of long-form repetitive structure to it.

 

To me it's not objectively worse or more amateurish- just has a different nature, perhaps less time was spent on its creation but it has no less value because of it.

[killabyte11]

Hey fact magazine puts - On at #2 of their top 100 IDM tracks of all time so F.U all LOL.

http://www.factmag.com/2014/09/22/the-100-greatest-idm-tracks-100-51/100/

 

It's clear that so many people on this board do not understand dance music, repetition etc...aka the culture in which Aphex Twin comes from. As evidence from the above comments - which puts the repetitive nature of his early tracks down to a limited skill set?! HAHA dude you could try your whole life with unlimited equipment and you wouldn't be able to create a single one of those tracks.

 

To me complexity has very little place what so ever in music. Metapharstic is one of my favorite Aphex Twin tracks...as is the "elephant track"...as is 73 yips, On, Xepha, everything on ICBYD. Basically I love everything up to 1995. In 1996 I picked up the RDJ album the day it came out and have to say I was a bit disappointed. I tried for weeks to like it and there are a few I like on it but it never had the impact of the early records for me and really nothing he's put out since then has come close to that earlier period.

 

The music of Aphex Twin comes from an extremely deep sub culture of underground dance music in which music has more of a function than sitting in your bedroom and chin stroking to it....to the novelty of it changing every second. Notice that 90% of what RDJ posts on soundcloud for his favorite obscure tracks are, as you would say "repetitive". Repetition focuses the mind into a trance like state where one can dream - or on a dancefloor - dance. Music that is constantly changing offers no room for the imagination of the listener to enter as it forces you to pay strict attention to it's every moment. To me that kind of music is all about the artist showing off - "look what I can do" but it makes for very un-enjoyable listening. I can say the same about Autechre...the more complex/progressive their music got, the more I left it behind.

 

Say what you want but the majority of the most infectious, compelling, influential music of modern time is repetitive.

 

Seriously...educate yourselves on the history of this music. Maybe take some psychedelic drugs or smoke a spliff. I don't what else to tell you.

[hello spiral]

[killabyte11]

- Also...Hate to come off so caustic but I just can't have people referring to classic Twin as amateur on my watch. The person who started this thread has good taste and wanted to know if he'd ever do another tune in this vein...and people try to diss.

 

Also - to understand repetition, look at minimalism in art, design, architecture, sculpture and so on. It is like a well oiled and finely crafted machine firing on all cylinders.

 

Also - try listening to this music in motion...Get some headphones and go for a long walk or my personal fav - bike ride. I think it could help some get a different perspective.

[perunamuusi]

complaining about repetition in techno

 

only on watmm

[hello spiral]

lol

[purlieu]

As the person who first used the word in this thread, I just want to define amateur again:

 

I suppose I was thinking more of the literal definition of amateur - sounds like a (super fucking talented) guy playing around in his room rather than a professional musician with years of experience behind him and ££££££££s of gear in his studio.

 

 

The use of amateur as a criticism is one I absolutely hate, in this context at least. I used it as a compliment, if anything. Almost all of my favourite dance music sounds amateur. It's music that comes from people as an outlet, and as a reflection of them, their personality, and their social life, at that moment. It exists outside of any kind of industry and isn't at all self-conscious. 

 

I like later Aphex a lot, but nothing has quite captured the magic of the stuff released up to '94/'95. 

[Key]

Hey fact magazine puts - On at #2 of their top 100 IDM tracks of all time so F.U all LOL.

http://www.factmag.com/2014/09/22/the-100-greatest-idm-tracks-100-51/100/

 

It's clear that so many people on this board do not understand dance music, repetition etc...aka the culture in which Aphex Twin comes from. As evidence from the above comments - which puts the repetitive nature of his early tracks down to a limited skill set?! HAHA dude you could try your whole life with unlimited equipment and you wouldn't be able to create a single one of those tracks.

 

To me complexity has very little place what so ever in music. Metapharstic is one of my favorite Aphex Twin tracks...as is the "elephant track"...as is 73 yips, On, Xepha, everything on ICBYD. Basically I love everything up to 1995. In 1996 I picked up the RDJ album the day it came out and have to say I was a bit disappointed. I tried for weeks to like it and there are a few I like on it but it never had the impact of the early records for me and really nothing he's put out since then has come close to that earlier period.

 

The music of Aphex Twin comes from an extremely deep sub culture of underground dance music in which music has more of a function than sitting in your bedroom and chin stroking to it....to the novelty of it changing every second. Notice that 90% of what RDJ posts on soundcloud for his favorite obscure tracks are, as you would say "repetitive". Repetition focuses the mind into a trance like state where one can dream - or on a dancefloor - dance. Music that is constantly changing offers no room for the imagination of the listener to enter as it forces you to pay strict attention to it's every moment. To me that kind of music is all about the artist showing off - "look what I can do" but it makes for very un-enjoyable listening. I can say the same about Autechre...the more complex/progressive their music got, the more I left it behind.

 

Say what you want but the majority of the most infectious, compelling, influential music of modern time is repetitive.

 

Seriously...educate yourselves on the history of this music. Maybe take some psychedelic drugs or smoke a spliff. I don't what else to tell you.

 

 

Ok so you seemed to willfully misinterpret my entire post as a jumping off point to show off how much more you appreciate techno that I ever will. I will elaborate.

 

By more limited skillset, I mean he couldn't do any of the hyper complex break edits/fx he could once computers came into the equation, so as a result you tend to get more tracks where the drum loop is the same thing over & over. He didn't pore over a piano roll for weeks to write a melody like he would on Drukqs. This is fine.

I know some people, (usually n00bs who got into Aphex Twin via saladfingers or Kanye West) don't have much stomach for the Caustic Window or more repetitive stuff, I am not one of them. I have a sizable stack of gabba records over there on the floor, My favorite band is the Fall for fuck sake.

 

While undoubtedly a talented guy from the get-go, Ritchie has definitely developed his rhythmic and melodic sensibilities in the intervening years. It's a real shame you can't look past your prejudice against non-repetitive, non-simple music to sit and appreciate some real gems such as 'Mt St Michel & St Michaels Mount' 'Xmas EveT10, or 'Fenix Funk 5'. I think if you smoked a spliff, put on some headphones and grooved a couple of them out, maybe you'd understand the true genius of Aphex Twin.

[hello spiral]

Forget it guys, he's already proved he gets it better than us poor plebs ever will.

[triachus]

complaining about repetition in techno

 

only on watmm

One of my earliest memorable watmm memories was when someone posted a joke about techno, and someone took offense to that and demanded an apology. Because "you also don't go to country music forums to make fun of country music"

 

Or something like that.

[hoggy]

is aphex's stuff complex or just detailed/varied?

 

you can get lost in details - I need detail to get really lost, but then I find detail in the texture of the repetitive stuff too

[beerwolf]

good read

 

killabyte11 brings up some good points, but must just be cool and realise that there are obviously a few different clans of Aphex fans, a tribe of geeklords with their bedrooms filled to the brim  with machines who want the more progressive stuff and those who like to get some different fix and like fueling their imagination by cycling or walking with his sounds (including me) where either simple repetative or techy progressive is fine, and I'm sure some other clans who have their own thing going on.

 

I think there is definitely something to do with a crowd who came into IDM with perhaps a metal background and those who come from just a pure electronic background. I always think that the metal-head background would never say that On is 'amatuer'. I've had a few 7% ciders. I know what I mean. Even if you don't. Lol.

[Adieu]

On is pretty shit compared to all his other music. The u-ziq remix of on is better than the original anyhow. 

 

[perunamuusi]

On is pretty shit compared to all his other music. The u-ziq remix of on is better than the original anyhow.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOxo4B3we8I

 

I like that remix but personally I think it's the 8th best track on the two EPs.

[Adieu]

 

On is pretty shit compared to all his other music. The u-ziq remix of on is better than the original anyhow.

 

 

I like that remix but personally I think it's the 8th best track on the two EPs.

 

 

Man, the remix album had actually slipped by me. I realized after you said that. Went and listened to the other remixes.

 

I'm not that into 73-yips and the reload remix is a bit like a final fantasy opening sequence or something, but d-scape and 28 mix are really nice.

[ZoeB]

 I'm not that into 73-yips and the reload remix is a bit like a final fantasy opening sequence or something, but d-scape and 28 mix are really nice.

 

I assume On (28 Mix) is the 28th track from Selected Ambient Works Volume II, suggesting there were at least two other outtakes (along with [stone in Focus] in between [Window Sill] and [Hexagon], of course).

[Key]

Rich uploaded a few tracks on soundcloud that were specifically labeled as unfinished SAWII tracks (Road Shimmer, Stabbing Interview and Chopped F). and a few that sound like they could be from the same recording sessions (Red Calx, th1, bicycle wheel.) Interesting if any of these were earmarked as outtakes, or if they are something else. Or Rich just messed up counting the total amount of tracks (pretty likely). Also such a tease to give us just two of the real track titles on soundcloud and no more.

[Bechuga]

Listened to this again today, quite good.

[killabyte11]

OK I only sign in every few weeks or so or when I'm in the mood to be aggravated.  There seems to be a clear disconnect among many people who post here in the understanding of the musical landscape from which early period Aphex Twin springs forth, that is -late 80's through 90's underground electronic dance music/ rave culture.  This is made apparent by statements proposing that the reason he made repetitive music at that time was because that's all he was capable of or that's all the machines were capable of.  Let me dispel that notion

-1. He's not John Coltrane, playing the music by hand.  It's all sequenced music of which the technology was present at any time during his career to make music as complex as his heart desired.  2. super complex idm (a term Richard himself disdained) is not going to rock a dance floor of thousands of kids at an illegal field rave in 92' the way something like say Digeridoo would/did.

Unless people were there to experience it first hand, it's really impossible to convey the massive impact that this early renaissance period had. It's nothing in the slightest related to the commercialized, generic concert like experience of modern day "edm" festivals and such drivel. It was nothing short of an absolute spiritual revolution of youth culture on par with the late 60's hippy movement.  The best you can do to get a little perspective on the subject is perhaps read a book or watch a couple documentaries on the subject such as I've posted earlier in this thread.
From someone who has well over 10 years production experience - IMO it's much more challenging to create a simple / minimal piece of music that's memorable/telling than it is to make overly complex pieces of experimental music.  In the world of electronic music production its all too easy, being that the artist has virtually unlimited tracks to work with in a given song/piece of music.  There's a reason that early period Aphex Twin has never stopped being relevant or played by the the world's most respected underground producers, DJ's and musicians to this day.  Take for instance the latest Fact mix from synth maestro,frequent Nine Inch Nails and Don Buchla collaborator Alessandro Cortini which features 'Polynomial C'

Or Berlin's industrial techno artist Ancient Methods dropping 'Garden of Linmiri' in his boiler room set

Or legendary Spanish producer/DJ Oscar Mulero dropping 'Elephant' in this set.

I could post another handful more examples just from the top of me head but I think you get the point.

Also to the guy who said Metapharstic was repetitive....that just popped on my player today and I have to say I don't find it all that incredibly repetitive, plenty of changes through out.  Then again I'm into gems like these....

Happy Halloween kids.
 
 

[hello spiral]

r u Benn Jordan?

[Entorwellian]

Welcome back, Benn :D