Neo-folk music / Death In June etc

[Lane Visitor]

Hey guys, 

 

So I wondered if anyone was into this band...? I'm really split, cuz I understand that they have far right leanings and flirt with SS themes and have been pretty outspoken politically in the past from what I've read. But I can't help but really dig the style of their music--there's something about the tones and atmospheres and general mood/vibe that's so relaxing with the whole ancient folklore, mystical british isles / norse sounding thing. Moral quandary hah.

 

I've searched for other neofolk artists that may sound similar so I don't have to listen to lyrics that may be cryptic messages for some kind of aryan battlecries lol, so far only found several artists that were kinda decent...

 

Anyone recommend good neofolk?

[th555]

Not sure what exactly you're looking for, had never listened to Death in June before (but it sounds wicked so far). Here's some things I thought of anyway.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5seL43zYzM

 

 

 

For more stuff in the vein of Fairport Convention/Trees the key phrase is Canterbury scene.

[purlieu]

If you want the 'same strum pattern on every song + baritone dramatic vocals' approach that Douglas Pearce uses in DiJ, then Sol Invictus and Fire + Ice are probably worth a listen. Sol Invictus is generally a tad more on the melancholic end, and Fire + Ice is super melodramatic. Tony Wakeford was a member of the National Front, but later went on to describe it as the worst decision of his life, so ymmv in terms of Sol Invictus racism. Ian Read is a good singer but has quite a few dodgy connections so Fire + Ice is in more worrisome ground possibly. As for Douglas, fuck knows. DiJ started as a heavily left-leaning post-punk band, and supposedly his continually dressing up as a Nazi is due to a fascination rather than actually being one (he's gay which puts him squarely in the Nazi persecution camp), but he's always been incredibly vague about the whole thing and certainly manages to trade off the controversy, which is shitty enough in its own right. That whole scene I avoid because I do find the slightly martial, nationalistic aesthetic generally off putting.

 

Current 93 are a different beast, and the interest there depends entirely on whether you can enjoy (or even stand) David Tibet's vocals or not. He's possibly the most polarising vocalist I've ever known of. Thunder Perfect Mind, Of Ruine or Some Blazing Starre and All the Pretty Little Horses are the essentials there, although there are plenty of other albums that branch out into different areas which are equally worth listening to. The late '80s stuff is patchy, but Earth Covers Earth, Swastikas for Noddy* and Horsey all contain some really good material. One of the key elements to the success of the '90s stuff is Michael Cashmore being the main musical composer at this point. His two albums as Nature & Organisation (recently repackaged as a lovely 2CD set) are incredibly beautiful, and feature various guest vocalists. Since he left C93 I don't think they've been quite as strong, but some recent albums like Baalstorm, Sing Omega and the jazzy I Am the Last of All the Field That Fell are pretty good.

 

Sorrow, the group of ex-Strawberry Switchblade singer and occasional C93 member Rose McDowall, is worth checking out. Some really haunting stuff and no need to worry about scary racists there.

 

 

 

 

*Tibet definitely isn't a Nazi, despite his associations with some hideous racists like Boyd Rice. He turned his back on that whole scene in the '90s and in his esoteric Christian way has more than once described Hitler as the Antichrist. The 'Swastikas' title comes from a hallicunation he had whilst on acid.

[Nebraska]

*Tibet definitely isn't a Nazi, despite his associations with some hideous racists like Boyd Rice

 

i don't think boyd rice was/is racist. he seemed more into the history of the nazi's for the power and spectacle aspect of it (he even compared the nazi rally's to being more similar to michael jackson concerts where fans would be besides themselves pledging to do anything for michael which is something i think he admired)

 

he also loved to troll racists; for anyone that knows boyd, he's the biggest troll there ever was

[joshuatxuk]

Hey guys, 

 

So I wondered if anyone was into this band...? I'm really split, cuz I understand that they have far right leanings and flirt with SS themes and have been pretty outspoken politically in the past from what I've read. But I can't help but really dig the style of their music--there's something about the tones and atmospheres and general mood/vibe that's so relaxing with the whole ancient folklore, mystical british isles / norse sounding thing. Moral quandary hah.

 

I've searched for other neofolk artists that may sound similar so I don't have to listen to lyrics that may be cryptic messages for some kind of aryan battlecries lol, so far only found several artists that were kinda decent...

 

Anyone recommend good neofolk?

 

I don't think Death In June is fascist / far right / racist / etc. Very grey area as they explore a lot of old recurring symbols used by Nazis and fascists but I haven't really seen a smoking gun that he harbors true racist or fascist views. He's openly gay, played in Israel, etc. Some of their fans are probably of sketchy backgrounds though, but that's a problem with a lot of bands in neofolk, black metal, and Oi. It's a small community but it exists, and it's a very quiet and subtle existence that hides under the radar. For example my friend played a show during SXSW with a bunch of other bands he'd never met. Pretty diverse and random bands musically. One was a Oi / Rockabilly band called Ironhead Division. I figured they were Motorhead fans and/or bikers, etc. but I noticed one guy had a Iron Cross tattoo and another had a Death In June shirt that was an American flag with a Totenkopf symbol instead of stars. I dig some digging and it turns out they have put some 12" and 7" releases out on a label that puts out Rock Against Communism punk/oi! music, which is essentially a far right scene that harbors neo-nazi/white supremacists. So in private I wouldn't have been shocked if some were racists or anti-Semites in that band.

 

That said I think Death In June straddle the line a lot more than say, some black metal and Oi! bands in the NSBM and RAC scenes. He's definitely not as morally iffy as say Burzum, who is an outspoken white supremacist and convicted murderer, yet that project has a lot more mainstream recognition than Death In June. I don't think it's wrong to listen to it but drawn the line as you need to personally when it comes to buying and supporting it.

 

I listen to a lot of extreme music. You have to take it at face value. Some is shock value, some is truly sincere in exploring dark and taboo stuff without engaging in it, and yes some, some actually is made by and for immoral people. In the Case of Death In June I don't think he's racist or fascist in a dangerous way, I think it's esoteric European subject matter fetished and explored musically but I wouldn't be naive about what his music might mean to others.

[scumtron]

Wovenhand. Especially hus s/t debut and Blush Music. The debut is pretty "straightforward" alt country/avant-folk while the latter is a rework to fit a dance performance and has a more drone/gothic sound.

 

Standout tracks from other albums:

Winter Shaker, Swedish Purse, Whistling Girl and Deerskin Doll from Mosaic

Not one Stone, Iron Feather and Kicking Bird from Ten Stones

A Holy Measure, Terre Haute from The Threshingfloor

[Dan C]

Death In June isn't far right.

Listen to Of the Wand & the Moon.

[purlieu]

I dunno about Boyd Rice. It could all be a massive troll I suppose. But paragraphs like this really don't encourage me to believe that

 

 

Rice's Social Darwinist outlook eventually led to him founding the Social Darwinist think tank called The Abraxas Foundation, along with co-founder Nikolas Schreck, named after the ancient Gnostic god Abraxas. The organization promotes authoritarianism, totalitarianism, misanthropism, and elitism, is antidemocratic, and has some philosophical overlap with the Church of Satan. During an interview with Christian talk show host Bob Larson, Rice described the basic philosophy of the foundation as being "The strong rule the weak, and the clever rule the strong".

[Dan C]

Listen to Rome too.

[Lane Visitor]

Wow thank you guys for the insight and recommendations...

 

If you want the 'same strum pattern on every song + baritone dramatic vocals' approach that Douglas Pearce uses in DiJ, then Sol Invictus and Fire + Ice are probably worth a listen. Sol Invictus is generally a tad more on the melancholic end, and Fire + Ice is super melodramatic. Tony Wakeford was a member of the National Front, but later went on to describe it as the worst decision of his life, so ymmv in terms of Sol Invictus racism. Ian Read is a good singer but has quite a few dodgy connections so Fire + Ice is in more worrisome ground possibly. As for Douglas, fuck knows. DiJ started as a heavily left-leaning post-punk band, and supposedly his continually dressing up as a Nazi is due to a fascination rather than actually being one (he's gay which puts him squarely in the Nazi persecution camp), but he's always been incredibly vague about the whole thing and certainly manages to trade off the controversy, which is shitty enough in its own right. That whole scene I avoid because I do find the slightly martial, nationalistic aesthetic generally off putting.

 

Current 93 are a different beast, and the interest there depends entirely on whether you can enjoy (or even stand) David Tibet's vocals or not. He's possibly the most polarising vocalist I've ever known of. Thunder Perfect Mind, Of Ruine or Some Blazing Starre and All the Pretty Little Horses are the essentials there, although there are plenty of other albums that branch out into different areas which are equally worth listening to. The late '80s stuff is patchy, but Earth Covers Earth, Swastikas for Noddy* and Horsey all contain some really good material. One of the key elements to the success of the '90s stuff is Michael Cashmore being the main musical composer at this point. His two albums as Nature & Organisation (recently repackaged as a lovely 2CD set) are incredibly beautiful, and feature various guest vocalists. Since he left C93 I don't think they've been quite as strong, but some recent albums like Baalstorm, Sing Omega and the jazzy I Am the Last of All the Field That Fell are pretty good.

 

Sorrow, the group of ex-Strawberry Switchblade singer and occasional C93 member Rose McDowall, is worth checking out. Some really haunting stuff and no need to worry about scary racists there.

 

 

 

 

*Tibet definitely isn't a Nazi, despite his associations with some hideous racists like Boyd Rice. He turned his back on that whole scene in the '90s and in his esoteric Christian way has more than once described Hitler as the Antichrist. The 'Swastikas' title comes from a hallicunation he had whilst on acid.

 

Haha dude, incredible knowledge and background you have dropped here. I really appreciate that. It's fascinating to learn about the history and inner workings of this obscure scene. It's weird, this is a style of music that I think I crave only once in a blue moon. I listened again last night to a Death In June tracks, and almost forgot how incredibly bleak, grey and depressing the music itself was, tied with of course the aesthetics of the art and the whole package. I was talking to my fiancee last night about this style over dinner and played her some of the music and she agreed it was depressing but interesting. Before playing it for her, I described the vibe of Douglas Pierce as like this ghost of some long lost dead soldier from Britain circa-1800s, singing downtrodden gloomy nihilistic anthems of despair and lost battles performing his songs in a pub in front of several old men. What I found while re-visiting was that DiJ is so incredibly grey, foggy, bleak, and almost generic, that it just might make for one of the most depressing music listens. It sounds like I'm listening to a monotonous ghost of a ghost of a ghost in a bygone era who had questionable politics singing about mostly death and the drudgery of life. On my pursuit last week to discover the absolute most lowest pit of despair encapsulated in an album within the depressive atmospheric / doom / black metal genre, some of Death In June (depending on my circumstances and mood) for some reason is about 10x more depressing and hopeless sounding to me than Pallbearer, Trist, The Angelic Process and those other artists combined. Although on an occasional Saturday morning while still waking up, playing a Death in June album almost inaudible can be rather... meditative and relaxing for some odd reason haha

 

 

Hey guys, 

 

So I wondered if anyone was into this band...? I'm really split, cuz I understand that they have far right leanings and flirt with SS themes and have been pretty outspoken politically in the past from what I've read. But I can't help but really dig the style of their music--there's something about the tones and atmospheres and general mood/vibe that's so relaxing with the whole ancient folklore, mystical british isles / norse sounding thing. Moral quandary hah.

 

I've searched for other neofolk artists that may sound similar so I don't have to listen to lyrics that may be cryptic messages for some kind of aryan battlecries lol, so far only found several artists that were kinda decent...

 

Anyone recommend good neofolk?

 

I don't think Death In June is fascist / far right / racist / etc. Very grey area as they explore a lot of old recurring symbols used by Nazis and fascists but I haven't really seen a smoking gun that he harbors true racist or fascist views. He's openly gay, played in Israel, etc. Some of their fans are probably of sketchy backgrounds though, but that's a problem with a lot of bands in neofolk, black metal, and Oi. It's a small community but it exists, and it's a very quiet and subtle existence that hides under the radar. For example my friend played a show during SXSW with a bunch of other bands he'd never met. Pretty diverse and random bands musically. One was a Oi / Rockabilly band called Ironhead Division. I figured they were Motorhead fans and/or bikers, etc. but I noticed one guy had a Iron Cross tattoo and another had a Death In June shirt that was an American flag with a Totenkopf symbol instead of stars. I dig some digging and it turns out they have put some 12" and 7" releases out on a label that puts out Rock Against Communism punk/oi! music, which is essentially a far right scene that harbors neo-nazi/white supremacists. So in private I wouldn't have been shocked if some were racists or anti-Semites in that band.

 

That said I think Death In June straddle the line a lot more than say, some black metal and Oi! bands in the NSBM and RAC scenes. He's definitely not as morally iffy as say Burzum, who is an outspoken white supremacist and convicted murderer, yet that project has a lot more mainstream recognition than Death In June. I don't think it's wrong to listen to it but drawn the line as you need to personally when it comes to buying and supporting it.

 

I listen to a lot of extreme music. You have to take it at face value. Some is shock value, some is truly sincere in exploring dark and taboo stuff without engaging in it, and yes some, some actually is made by and for immoral people. In the Case of Death In June I don't think he's racist or fascist in a dangerous way, I think it's esoteric European subject matter fetished and explored musically but I wouldn't be naive about what his music might mean to others.

 

 

 

Absolutely- well said. It's interesting how we may or may not be able to appreciate art even when or if the creator has influences/beliefs that we don't agree with or even vehemently stand against, and other times we are able to if the artist is simply exploring atmospheres and concepts on an artistic level. It goes for all forms of art. When it comes to the former however, I have a hard time not watching Roman Polanski films because I love the work that he has put out and some of those are some of my favorite films. However, it irks me and gets to me that I'm appreciating the work of a person who has done the things he has. As for exploration of subject matter and shock, bands like Whitehouse or Venetian Snares come to mind, and I sometimes find their work fascinating but can usually only take that real dark disturbing stuff in small doses. Burzum, on the other hand, doesn't usually bother me--probably cuz they're more atmospheric and emotion--based (oddly enough considering his terrible politics, but I think it's cuz I sort of pass him off as a non-real person, more of an evil villain figure--as the whole black metal scene kind of makes the artists out to be). It's all ironic since Whitehouse and Venetian Snares stand against the subject matter they often base their work on (presumably), while Burzum is a straight national socialist from what I understand. It's funny how context and circumstance of personas can change my comfort level there, despite the creator's character.  

[cwmbrancity]

Mixed bag, not a fan of Death in June as a musical entity & the regalia might be as much a sexual kink of DP's as anything else, all the blutty leather. He can sing, is that enough? Just thought the whole fascist party trick to be pointless & not half as intellectually challenging as intended.

 

Dont think NON made any good music.

 

With Current 93 the better gear imho is either the early material or has the Andrew Liles/Steven Stapleton imprint on it & then its not really the folky output so much as segments of instrumental work w/out singing (sorry Mr Tibet). A wide array of styles though, which are a testament to his real talents as a conductor + under-rated graphic artist. The C93 sleeve designs are magnificent. The Andrew Liles remix long player "Like Swallowing Eclipses" has some sublime moments:

 

https://www.discogs.com/Current-93-Dreamt-By-Andrew-Liles-Like-Swallowing-Eclipses/release/2333713

 

 

 

 

 

If it means owt i've listened to the original opening 32 bars of Maldoror Est Mort's looped for hours, but would usually prefer the virtuosity, flares, humour and dare i say it warped grooves of The Incredible String Band over wailing apocryphal noddy referencing boredom pretty much every time.

[Nebraska]

 

I dunno about Boyd Rice. It could all be a massive troll I suppose. But paragraphs like this really don't encourage me to believe that

 

 

Rice's Social Darwinist outlook eventually led to him founding the Social Darwinist think tank called The Abraxas Foundation, along with co-founder Nikolas Schreck, named after the ancient Gnostic god Abraxas. The organization promotes authoritarianism, totalitarianism, misanthropism, and elitism, is antidemocratic, and has some philosophical overlap with the Church of Satan. During an interview with Christian talk show host Bob Larson, Rice described the basic philosophy of the foundation as being "The strong rule the weak, and the clever rule the strong".

 

 

yes. schreck and rice summarized the abraxas foundation as "a fascist, occult, think tank"- but this only applied to muzik. schreck trolled wally george whilst rice worked small tv shows as well former first lady betty ford. does that sound like someone that takes politics seriously?

 

even if they were serious, they were seriously contradicting themselves. schreck at the time was dating a native american woman while boyd rice was seriously exploring s&m (both of these would've been considered generate behavior by the ss)

 

imo- the over the topness and semi-juvenile presentation always struck me as theater: kinda like tiny tim 

 

btw: i've always found it kinda funny that the old radio werewolf headquarters office is today a ups store 

 

[modey]

I'm pretty conflicted by this whole scene tbh.. I'm involved with a band/collective with a good friend of mine called Bordel Militaire, which combines that neofolk sound with lounge/exotica.. but I'm wary of the neo-nazi connections and kinda want to anonymise my contributions to the band, or go under an alias or something. The music is great, but I think even though I *know for sure* that nobody in the band is actually neo-nazi, some of the imagery comes close (like the logo being two martini glasses crossed over with a wreath around it.. and printed on an armband..).

 

actually Boyd Rice provided some (definitely not neo-nazi related) spoken word for one track:

 

 

[Nebraska]

modey: i really love that second track 'so fear the white blinding light'. i'm a big fan of tiki and exotica culture. imo, that song sounds great, but i don't know if the imagery fits it. in the words of gustav wagner "we just didn't think about it". exotica and tiki music is too nostalgic and thus, provokes thinking back. i wonder if world war 2 vet would dispute this.

 

btw: boyd rice used to own a tiki bar, unoriginally called tiki boyd's. 

 

[Lane Visitor]

This is all so fascinating. In the back burner of my projects and aliases that I'm planning to release is a mostly completed 4 track solo EP (which was written a long time ago and touched up and going to be re-produced and recorded now), but anyway, it's essentially indie pop with elements of exotica, old timey folk/blues aspects, and a hauntology/folk horror/murder ballad kind of thing (actually i think its those styles primarily--with indie pop touches). As far as inspiration, a cross between Nick Cave, Roy Orbison, Vincent Gallo, and Jim Jones-type cult era music. I'm considering exploring a pagan/wiccan/black metal/neofolk aesthetic to tie it all together in terms of concept / cover art. but there's a definitely cult / folklore thing going on with the content of the lyrics/vibe--and some of it is quite haunting though it retains its quirkiness and charm. Would love to keep you guys on posted on the release when it comes out. May be a little while til i have a chance to have it take priority. I've always been into this sort of thing, and have recently been tapping more into my darker sides of music and really want to take that somewhere.

 

Sorry i just realized i totally just wrote an album review of my own project which i havent even fully recorded let alone released lol

[Nebraska]

^^^ i like your idea. i've also always loved hula-rock music from the 50s as i think it goes so perfectly with the tiki aesthetic. something like hawaiian boogie, honolulu rock-a roll-a or the swinging lula rock-a-hula. not sure if this is completely fits with your description of "old timey folk/blues aspects"

[modey]

modey: i really love that second track 'so fear the white blinding light'. i'm a big fan of tiki and exotica culture. imo, that song sounds great, but i don't know if the imagery fits it. in the words of gustav wagner "we just didn't think about it". exotica and tiki music is too nostalgic and thus, provokes thinking back. i wonder if world war 2 vet would dispute this.

 

yeah, the video was made by a fan. I generally find the war imagery/fetishisation of this genre a bit distasteful, with the exception of maybe some of the clothing just because it looks sharp as fuck (as long as it's not an actual ss uniform or whatever).

This is all so fascinating. In the back burner of my projects and aliases that I'm planning to release is a mostly completed 4 track solo EP (which was written a long time ago and touched up and going to be re-produced and recorded now), but anyway, it's essentially indie pop with elements of exotica, old timey folk/blues aspects, and a hauntology/folk horror/murder ballad kind of thing (actually i think its those styles primarily--with indie pop touches). As far as inspiration, a cross between Nick Cave, Roy Orbison, Vincent Gallo, and Jim Jones-type cult era music. I'm considering exploring a pagan/wiccan/black metal/neofolk aesthetic to tie it all together in terms of concept / cover art. but there's a definitely cult / folklore thing going on with the content of the lyrics/vibe--and some of it is quite haunting though it retains its quirkiness and charm. Would love to keep you guys on posted on the release when it comes out. May be a little while til i have a chance to have it take priority. I've always been into this sort of thing, and have recently been tapping more into my darker sides of music and really want to take that somewhere.

 

Sorry i just realized i totally just wrote an album review of my own project which i havent even fully recorded let alone released lol

sounds cool! let me know when you've got something ready for release (or even a demo) and I'll send it to my bandmate, if you're interested in doing a split sometime.. even for my other project Italianz, which is more along the lines of synthpunk but still has some of that exotica element

[Nebraska]

btw speaking of nikolas shereck

 

https://youtu.be/f5dXZsbtBmk98

[caze]

 

 

this is really great, everything else people are talking about in this thread sounds incredibly tiresome to me though, I tried listening to Current 93 once but the vocals immediately made me switch it off, which was a shame as the music sounded okay.

[cwmbrancity]

as a tangent i owe the bloke massively for the Rinpoche/Chöd semi-anthropological/semi-ritual sound works, curating like that is always inspiring cos you learn so much with it

 

this piece highlights some of Tibet's influences

 

http://www.thewire.co.uk/in-writing/interviews/invisible-jukebox_current-93

[Lane Visitor]

When the drop in hardcore big room eastern euro EDM becomes so blatant and absurd, it's almost martial industrial lol

 

[Lane Visitor]

^^^ i like your idea. i've also always loved hula-rock music from the 50s as i think it goes so perfectly with the tiki aesthetic. something like hawaiian boogie, honolulu rock-a roll-a or the swinging lula rock-a-hula. not sure if this is completely fits with your description of "old timey folk/blues aspects"

 

Thanks Nebraska.. yes most definitely. I dig that space age bachelor pad tiki type stuff too. There's something so fun and otherworldly about it all. It's great how it all comes around full circle. Those classic elements you talked about actually, I discovered a station a long time ago called Secret Agent FM i think, on iTunes radio, one of those Live365 stations. But anyway, yeah it was a mashup of all of that stuff, with Portishead and related stuff thrown in. Even some Russian psych garage type sounds, and of course Dick Dale surf fun. Exotica at its finest. On a far off note, when I discovered Hed Kandi's Welcome to the Acid Lounge, it was all over. 

 

 

modey: i really love that second track 'so fear the white blinding light'. i'm a big fan of tiki and exotica culture. imo, that song sounds great, but i don't know if the imagery fits it. in the words of gustav wagner "we just didn't think about it". exotica and tiki music is too nostalgic and thus, provokes thinking back. i wonder if world war 2 vet would dispute this.

 

yeah, the video was made by a fan. I generally find the war imagery/fetishisation of this genre a bit distasteful, with the exception of maybe some of the clothing just because it looks sharp as fuck (as long as it's not an actual ss uniform or whatever).

This is all so fascinating. In the back burner of my projects and aliases that I'm planning to release is a mostly completed 4 track solo EP (which was written a long time ago and touched up and going to be re-produced and recorded now), but anyway, it's essentially indie pop with elements of exotica, old timey folk/blues aspects, and a hauntology/folk horror/murder ballad kind of thing (actually i think its those styles primarily--with indie pop touches). As far as inspiration, a cross between Nick Cave, Roy Orbison, Vincent Gallo, and Jim Jones-type cult era music. I'm considering exploring a pagan/wiccan/black metal/neofolk aesthetic to tie it all together in terms of concept / cover art. but there's a definitely cult / folklore thing going on with the content of the lyrics/vibe--and some of it is quite haunting though it retains its quirkiness and charm. Would love to keep you guys on posted on the release when it comes out. May be a little while til i have a chance to have it take priority. I've always been into this sort of thing, and have recently been tapping more into my darker sides of music and really want to take that somewhere.

 

Sorry i just realized i totally just wrote an album review of my own project which i havent even fully recorded let alone released lol

sounds cool! let me know when you've got something ready for release (or even a demo) and I'll send it to my bandmate, if you're interested in doing a split sometime.. even for my other project Italianz, which is more along the lines of synthpunk but still has some of that exotica element

 

 

Thanks modey! That's awesome, and I would definitely love to share the project with you once it's put together and recorded/mixed or even in demo form. Always up for a potential split or friendly label release. :) and yes love me some synthpunk. Italianz is a cool name. Checked out the cover art and stuff on discogs- looks interesting!