Ableton Live 11

[TheBro]

1 minute ago, thawkins said:

If you are on Windows, then the built in Windows Defender is pretty good as well, you generally do not need an additional antivirus. Besides, if you keep your laptop off the internet while producing, you should be quite safe.

Interesting. I'm just surprised that the performance is so terrible. I'm going to try the internal soundcard to see what the performance is like. Thanks.

[thawkins]

If you have not already, you should look into getting ASIO4ALL drivers. I don't use Windows, but I have heard this is a requirement for doing anything audio related.

It might also be the one VST that is messed up, maybe some of them also require a beefy graphics card for rendering the visual side of the VST (which IMO is ridiculous but that is the world we live in).

[TheBro]

1 hour ago, thawkins said:

If you have not already, you should look into getting ASIO4ALL drivers. I don't use Windows, but I have heard this is a requirement for doing anything audio related.

It might also be the one VST that is messed up, maybe some of them also require a beefy graphics card for rendering the visual side of the VST (which IMO is ridiculous but that is the world we live in).

Thanks yeah I download Asio4all. Using the internal soundcard. Performance is still not a lot better. Just testing what I can and can't do with it really now.

[mcbpete]

I'd say you'd definitely get the best performance using your existing Saffire 6 and the ASIO driver type, than with the internal card routed through ASIO4ALL

What is the VST - does it require external samples, is the drum rack particularly large - are the samples on the same drive or an external one ?

On the top right of the Ableton status panel is it showing CPU spikes or Disk dropouts (or both)

[sheatheman]

Im just not super impressed with this one. Sorry guys. Regret upgrading. 

[TheBro]

On 3/8/2021 at 3:04 PM, mcbpete said:

I'd say you'd definitely get the best performance using your existing Saffire 6 and the ASIO driver type, than with the internal card routed through ASIO4ALL

What is the VST - does it require external samples, is the drum rack particularly large - are the samples on the same drive or an external one ?

On the top right of the Ableton status panel is it showing CPU spikes or Disk dropouts (or both)

I'm using the internal sound card now and apart from it sounded a bit flat performance seems okay. I probably invest in a new soundcard at some point in the future. At the moment just loving the ability to crank out some brand new tunes lol.

[Danny O Flannagin]

Trying to use the mouse less with Ableton and wanted to see if the Push could entirely remove the need to use the mouse. 

Can any push users let me know how it is and if this is achievable? 

[mcbpete]

I think you could probably have a workflow where you could be 100% mouseless, but I still find things quicker using a combination of the two. For live performances, and for jamming you can absolutely do everything just on the Push (and I have many times) - but for the initial layout, setting up/mapping of VSTs, and for tweaking the arrangement view I think you still need yer mouse.

[Silent Member]

It looks a bit less cumbersome with the push 2, but having a mouse around for certain stuff will save you a bit of time and fiddling. Maybe if I forced myself to do it push only I would get the proper muscle memory and speed going, yah. Short answer: I don't know.

[Nil]

A combo of Push 2, a mouse and computer KB can be superfast and fun once you’ve identified when to use what (which is entirely subjective).

You can do most of the writing (the sequencers are great), performance (recording clip / scene triggering etc...) and tweaking (even mixing) with Push, especially if you rely on your Collection to streamline workflow and make adding tracks / devices faster.

All fine tuning works better with the mouse most of times IMO. I also use tons of KB shortcuts and mouse/KB combo.

Edited March 29, 2021 by Nil

[user]

I tried going mouse/KBless a couple of times in the past but decades of mouse use aren't unlearned in a couple of weeks so I now have 2 mice. Also agree/think that for some tasks the mouse is just quicker and even more ergonomical. I'm very happy with my current setup which consists of a push 2, small wireless KB in front of that, a trackpad on the left and a trackball on the right (kinda surprised I don't see more people with a dual mice setup tbh, it's so fast/handy for zooming, scrolling and dragging) and a small faderfox controller combined with Midistroke (converts midi messages to keyboard commands) and SelectedTrackControl (highly customizable control script, use it mostly for navigation and controlling volume, pan and send levels on whatever track is selected.).  

[auxien]

7 hours ago, Danny O Flannagin said:

Trying to use the mouse less with Ableton and wanted to see if the Push could entirely remove the need to use the mouse. 

Can any push users let me know how it is and if this is achievable? 

'entirely' removing the mouse is essentially impossible, even with a complex setup like user is detailing. but, as everyone above is getting at, Push (i've still got 1, tho i'm sure 2 is better) is very good at vastly reducing the need to mouse around..in some ways. only adding to mention in case it's not clear from what they're saying that specifically Push will be very helpful in Session view, but do rather little when in Arrangement view. depending on your workflow, i hope that helps clarify a little further.

once you get comfortable with Push and have a good default set with things how you want, it can start to feel like a different beast in front of you, even tho Ableton itself is exactly the same of course. when writing/recording, i found myself often not needing to use the mouse or even the computer screen at times...for relatively basic setups with a good default set, Push can begin to feel a bit like the only thing you need to jam/write/record.

[Nil]

Push's learning curve is gentle and quick I'll add.

@user : would you share a pic of your setup please ? Thx !

[YEK]

 

 

[sheatheman]

I always use my push for muting and unmuting, arming and disarming, launching, stopping, recording, play/stop, recording/sequencing drums, quantizing and duplicating.

i sometimes use it for playing melodic stuff, tweaking parameters, and doing rolls.

i never use it for adding effects. I used to and I certainly could still, but I use mouse and keyboard plus my ms2000 as a controller.

i am glad I have one but I don’t think I will ever upgrade and don’t think it’s worth $800 at all. I got it when I knew a lot less about ableton.

when you’re a power user, keyboard is where it’s at.

 

[user]

4 hours ago, Nil said:

Push's learning curve is gentle and quick I'll add.

@user : would you share a pic of your setup please ? Thx !

Of course!

The small controller to the left of the trackpad is the faderfox. 

The 5 encoders control volume/pan (keeping the encoder pressed while turning sends a different cc) and sends a/b/c for each track, and the fifth center one does scrubbing and zooming. The buttons associated with the encoders reset track level to -12 or pan to center. The four pots at the top control send track levels and the buttons select the send track. The rest of the buttons do solo/mute/arm/monitor select for whatever track is selected, shift either flips the mute state or kills all solo's. Then there's some more global stuff like show/hide vst plugin window, switching device/note view, selecting devices and turning them off/on, navigating tracks, unfolding tracks, setting markers and navigating through them. There's some redundancy obviously with the push but I find the place they put track navigation for example not so convenient (would swap positions between the octave/page pad and navigation pad if it were up to me).  

I realize you just asked for a picture but I felt the need to explain a bit.         

[sheatheman]

in the words of Chet Hanks, "reespect mon!"

[auxien]

2 hours ago, user said:

the fifth center one does scrubbing and zooming.

whoa, like on MIDI/audio clips? didn't know you could control that via CCs.

 

2 hours ago, user said:

shift either flips the mute state or kills all solo's.

nice! i bet that's handy

2 hours ago, user said:

switching device/note view, selecting devices and turning them off/on, navigating tracks, unfolding tracks, setting markers and navigating through them

shit, learning a lot. didn't realize you could CC control those either.

 for the Evolver btw

not using the other Faderfox on the right? or is that even more next-level and we couldn't handle it 

[thawkins]

15 hours ago, user said:

Of course!

The small controller to the left of the trackpad is the faderfox. 

The 5 encoders control volume/pan (keeping the encoder pressed while turning sends a different cc) and sends a/b/c for each track, and the fifth center one does scrubbing and zooming. The buttons associated with the encoders reset track level to -12 or pan to center. The four pots at the top control send track levels and the buttons select the send track. The rest of the buttons do solo/mute/arm/monitor select for whatever track is selected, shift either flips the mute state or kills all solo's. Then there's some more global stuff like show/hide vst plugin window, switching device/note view, selecting devices and turning them off/on, navigating tracks, unfolding tracks, setting markers and navigating through them. There's some redundancy obviously with the push but I find the place they put track navigation for example not so convenient (would swap positions between the octave/page pad and navigation pad if it were up to me).  

I realize you just asked for a picture but I felt the need to explain a bit.         

Did you just photoshop all that gear on this picture because it looks like it's suspended mid air? Nice lighting matching skills if you shopped this.

 

On a more serious note - what color scheme is this for Live?

 

On a really serious note regarding Push usage. I have a Push 1 so this may not apply anymore. In general, I can play a set jamming something from "scratch" without the mouse easily. Following caveats apply:

• I have a lot of stuff and effects already set up in my template project.
• Forget muting individual notes in a MIDI clip using the Push. The "user interface" is horrible. Maybe Push 2 fixes this?
• No transport control - i.e. I start recording and play something and I stop. I don't know how I could jump back to the start of the set or at any point of time inside and overdub or add layers. 
• Navigating into rack sub racks or plugin pages is a pain, so everything needs to be prepared to have important parameters exposed on the top level of the track's racks.
• There is no way (without custom mapping alot of things or using a second controller) to do things on two tracks at once. For example it would be cool to fade bass frequencies out on one track and fade them in on another. No way to do this without getting another controller, setting up some EQ plugin on each track and then map it to the controller. This is probably my personal problem and I do need to get a dedicated thing for this.
• Most M4L devices map very badly to Push. There is some thing called UberMap that helps you with this but it's also a pain to use and requires a lot of time to override the autogenerated mappings. And in some cases, you need to go in the M4L device to mess with what is exposed to Live as a mappable parameter and well honestly at this point I 

All the above applies in a live performing/jamming context - I almost never use Push in the mixing phase, partially because I never have enough time for mixing and setting up a reasonably good sounding template project has led me to believe that my stuff sounds good already and no need to tweak it further. 

Edited March 30, 2021 by thawkins

[user]

19 hours ago, auxien said:

whoa, like on MIDI/audio clips? didn't know you could control that via CCs.

 

nice! i bet that's handy

shit, learning a lot. didn't realize you could CC control those either.

 for the Evolver btw

not using the other Faderfox on the right? or is that even more next-level and we couldn't handle it 

In this case scrubbing only works in arrangement view. It is possible also to midi assign the playhead in a midi clip but afaik only on a per track or clip basis. There’s a yt video with Matthew Dear where he talks about doing this on a clip that’s going through a spectral delay and I’ve stolen his technique to get textures. 

The other faderfox is currently dedicated to controlling the machinedrum’s mutes and track levels or ad hoc midi cc in Ableton. 

How are you getting along with the evolver? I’ve had mine for about 3-4 years and still have times where I struggle and other times I’m amazed by it. The most rewarding sessions seem to be the ones where I take some time to setup something structural and then fly freely from there until it’s one big mess. 

6 hours ago, thawkins said:

Did you just photoshop all that gear on this picture because it looks like it's suspended mid air? Nice lighting matching skills if you shopped this.

 

On a more serious note - what color scheme is this for Live?

Thriftshop stands are a blessing. And the evolver is on a laptop stand that’s turned around and then set to basically vertical, use 2 clamps to keep the stand from falling forward. 
 

It’s the dark theme with, I think, colour intensity set quite low and brightness somewhere in the middle. 
 

Agree with most of your notes on push, the m4l assignment is a bit of a hassle but not too bad with the push.banks or whatever it’s called object. I think note muting and getting into nested devices/tracks has greatly improved on push 2. 

[thawkins]

11 hours ago, user said:

 

Thriftshop stands are a blessing. And the evolver is on a laptop stand that’s turned around and then set to basically vertical, use 2 clamps to keep the stand from falling forward. 
 

It’s the dark theme with, I think, colour intensity set quite low and brightness somewhere in the middle. 
 

Agree with most of your notes on push, the m4l assignment is a bit of a hassle but not too bad with the push.banks or whatever it’s called object. I think note muting and getting into nested devices/tracks has greatly improved on push 2. 

I have a cat now so setting up precarious stands for expensive gear might in fact be the stupidest idea in the world, clamps or not.

Thanks for the UI tip, I messed around a bit and got some cool colors, let me see how long until I want to change everything up again.

[user]

2 hours ago, thawkins said:

I have a cat now so setting up precarious stands for expensive gear might in fact be the stupidest idea in the world, clamps or not.

Thanks for the UI tip, I messed around a bit and got some cool colors, let me see how long until I want to change everything up again.

I really want a cat but I’m allergic, would even be willing to give up my beautiful stands for it, but alas. Gotta say though, things are very sturdy, use a little bit of that antislip matting that I think is intended for putting on a car dashboard and I’ve various apparatuses set at various impossible angles and always try to push them over from various angles but they’re not going anywhere. More worried about the metal in the laptop stand giving out at some point. 
 

The only downside for my current setting is that it makes darker text on some m4l devices difficult to read, sometimes have to go in and change the text colour. 
 

Links to STC (control surface script for Ableton) 

http://stc.wiffbi.com/
 

Don’t be intimidated by what initially might look complex, changing the assignments is a matter of editing one file with a text editor and entering the right cc numbers. A breeze with midi monitor and sublime text editor. It’s free btw. 
 

And midi stroke:

http://charlie-roberts.com/midiStroke/
 

Also very easy to use and can be used to midi control any program you’d like basically. If you wanna make excel sheets from maschine you technically could do it. Also free. 

[auxien]

15 hours ago, user said:

In this case scrubbing only works in arrangement view. It is possible also to midi assign the playhead in a midi clip but afaik only on a per track or clip basis. There’s a yt video with Matthew Dear where he talks about doing this on a clip that’s going through a spectral delay and I’ve stolen his technique to get textures. 

The other faderfox is currently dedicated to controlling the machinedrum’s mutes and track levels or ad hoc midi cc in Ableton. 

How are you getting along with the evolver? I’ve had mine for about 3-4 years and still have times where I struggle and other times I’m amazed by it. The most rewarding sessions seem to be the ones where I take some time to setup something structural and then fly freely from there until it’s one big mess. 

oh nice, so the scrubbing is adding some control to arrangement, that's great. will have to hunt that video up when i start deciding on some other things, looking at adding in some functionality to my set up. 

Evolver has always been pretty similar to that for me...moments of 'wow' with plenty of 'dear god, that's shit' mixed in-between... it's definitely good at that wide range of structural vs open like you're talking...that wildness ('fly away until it's a big mess' is right!) built into it is what makes it so great imo. haven't been using it a hell of a lot over the last year or so, certainly not in many interesting ways. but, it's always got a place, especially for an inspiration when i'm stuck on a track. it's most recently finding a spot as an effects (mostly destructive) processor  

[user]

36 minutes ago, auxien said:

oh nice, so the scrubbing is adding some control to arrangement, that's great. will have to hunt that video up when i start deciding on some other things, looking at adding in some functionality to my set up. 

Evolver has always been pretty similar to that for me...moments of 'wow' with plenty of 'dear god, that's shit' mixed in-between... it's definitely good at that wide range of structural vs open like you're talking...that wildness ('fly away until it's a big mess' is right!) built into it is what makes it so great imo. haven't been using it a hell of a lot over the last year or so, certainly not in many interesting ways. but, it's always got a place, especially for an inspiration when i'm stuck on a track. it's most recently finding a spot as an effects (mostly destructive) processor  

Yeah, and the unfold track also works in arrangement view, also supposed to be able to show/hide automation lanes I think but seems to not be working currently. With midi stroke you could technically also add stuff like consolidate and split clip etc but for now that would add too much complexity for me. 
 

Yeah, it’s a real beast of it’s own, but that seems to be the general consensus anyway. I noticed that lately I’ve enjoyed using the internet evolvers own interface more than controlling it from the sound tower editor the person I bought it from added in the sale. 
I’ve been meaning to use it as a processing box for ages but still haven’t gotten round to it. Same for using the ins to trigger the sequencer or envelopes. Gotta get on this soon. 
 

This is the video:

These types of “masterclasses” can be quite cringey but this interviewer always comes across as a genuine dude and Mathew Dear is really upstanding as well I think. 

Edited March 31, 2021 by user

[neurone]

you will laught at me, but I'm still using abelton V.5 and still does not feel like I need any upgrade since then.

...well I only use midi clips to feed a full hardware setup, mixed on analogue mixer, actually. so it does the job, obvioulsy.

 

Edited March 31, 2021 by neurone