First show after the plague is over

[Soloman Tump]

So I was thinking / daydreaming about going to my first gig when they open up again properly....

I could see myself standing front row in a dark nightclub, sweating and swaying to some phat techno beats from a DJ, and i'm crying tears of joy because the bass is so good and I haven't felt this free for what seems like ever.  I'm hugging my mate next to me, I've got a cold beer in hand and the strobe kicks in and I grin ear to ear and lose the plot.

In reality, it probably won't be anything like that, but I hope to get to some small DIY shows in the spring.  There are a few decent venues in Oxford that I hope can open up with some live music.  Even if seated / distanced.  I really don't know how they are going to roll out nightclub openings again.  After mass vaccinations are in place I guess.

Whatever happens, I cannot wait.  Live music is a part of what keeps my brain ticking and not experiencing it with other people has really got me down this year.

[drillkicker]

I'm very worried about the entire global population rushing to get a vaccine that's just hit the market.  It seems like a disaster waiting to happen.  I hope they're at least moderate about implementing it, but if it has harmful effects several years later, then humanity is royally fuxked.

[markedone]

24 minutes ago, drillkicker said:

moderate about implementing it

what does that even mean?  the whole point of developing a vaccine is to give as much / enough of the population immunity to stop the spread and eliminate the virus. and the reason its not widely distributed already is because it's undergoing rigorous safety and efficacy trials.

sorry i know this isnt the covid thread, but im more worried about misinformation getting in the way of a vaccine actually working and us not being able to go to sick shows because 'the plague' will linger in the population

Edited November 23, 2020 by markedone

[exitonly]

im expecting the opening act to go on too long and my feet will hurt and ill have to leave early cause of work the next day

[zkom]

I haven't been to any gigs since 2017 anyway..

[jaderpansen]

ae were about to tour q4 20, so yeah, prolly that, whenever it may be.

[Soloman Tump]

Well, you can count on watmm to lift the spirits

[drillkicker]

7 hours ago, markedone said:

what does that even mean?  the whole point of developing a vaccine is to give as much / enough of the population immunity to stop the spread and eliminate the virus. and the reason its not widely distributed already is because it's undergoing rigorous safety and efficacy trials.

sorry i know this isnt the covid thread, but im more worried about misinformation getting in the way of a vaccine actually working and us not being able to go to sick shows because 'the plague' will linger in the population

Sure it's undergoing rigorous testing, but no test can account for 7 billion humans.  It's an entirely new type of vaccine and distributing it to the entire human population all at once, without ever being distributed before, is definitely going to have adverse consequences at some point.

[YEK]

Or just do drugs and watch the static channel.

 

[Richie Sombrero]

2 hours ago, drillkicker said:

Sure it's undergoing rigorous testing, but no test can account for 7 billion humans.  It's an entirely new type of vaccine and distributing it to the entire human population all at once, without ever being distributed before, is definitely going to have adverse consequences at some point.

It's not an entirely new type of vaccine. It's based upon well-established techniques. Why do I even bother. 

[zkom]

11 minutes ago, Richie Sombrero said:

It's not an entirely new type of vaccine. It's based upon well-established techniques. Why do I even bother. 

And there's going to be at least 5 different vaccines it seems. Western countries have the Pfizer-Biontec, Moderna and AstraZeneca vaccines, Russians have their Sputnik V vaccine and the Chinese have the Sinovac vaccine. Probably more to come. Distributing the vaccines might take a year or more. It's not like the whole human population is going to be vaccinated instantly with the same vaccine. If there are problems with some of the vaccines that were not spotted in the testing their probably going to be found in the first few months of distribution.

[zkom]

I'm mostly waiting to meet my gf again who I haven't seen in the last 12 months and going back to traveling. Gigs are nice but their not really anywhere near the top of the list of things I miss from beforetimes.

[thumbass]

I don't go to concerts, for my ears sake

Wanted to see squarepusher but maybe I am glad I am not going to (It hasn't been rescheduled)

[user]

20 hours ago, drillkicker said:

I'm very worried about the entire global population rushing to get a vaccine that's just hit the market.  It seems like a disaster waiting to happen.  I hope they're at least moderate about implementing it, but if it has harmful effects several years later, then humanity is royally fuxked.

People straight up facepalming this should read about the after effects of the swineflu vaccine on a small part of the kids that received it. Not anti vaccine but some concerns are legitimate. Don’t just wave your hand at it. 
 

Can’t fucking wait to go to a concert, party, show, whatever again. Try not to think about it too much yet. Was supposed to go to a COVID proof show in October but it got postponed to January after new “lockdown”. 

[markedone]

11 minutes ago, user said:

People straight up facepalming this should read about the after effects of the swineflu vaccine on a small part of the kids that received it. Not anti vaccine but some concerns are legitimate. Don’t just wave your hand at it. 

What are your sources here? I understand the need for skepticism here and to not dismiss arguments either for or against.. but I gave a look at the wiki (of course a brief overview, but it is sourced from relevant data rather than anecdote); concluding in general there haven't been significant long term adverse effects.

in spoiler to not take over the thread..>>

Spoiler

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_swine_flu_pandemic_vaccine#Adverse_events

According to Marie-Paule Kieny of WHO assessing the side-effects of large-scale influenza vaccination is complicated by the fact that in any large population a few people will become ill and die at any time.^[71] For example, in any six-week period in the UK six sudden deaths from unknown causes and 22 cases of Guillain–Barré syndrome would be expected, so if everyone in the UK were vaccinated, this background rate of illness and death would continue as normal and some people would die simply by chance soon after the vaccination

 

The U.K. National Health Service stated in 2003 that "There is no evidence of long-term adverse effects due to the exposure levels of thiomersal in vaccines."^[112] The World Health Organization concluded that there is "no evidence of toxicity in infants, children or adults exposed to thiomersal in vaccines".^[113] Indeed, in 2008 a review noted that even though thiomersal was removed from all US childhood vaccines in 2001, this has not changed the number of autism diagnoses, which are still increasing

 

On 15 December 2009, One of the five manufacturers supplying the H1N1 vaccine to the United States recalled thousands of doses because they were not as potent as expected. The French manufacturer Sanofi Pasteur voluntarily recalled about 800,000 doses of vaccine meant for children between the ages of six months and 35 months. The company and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) emphasized that the recall was not prompted by safety concerns, and that even though the vaccine is not quite as potent as it is supposed to be, children who received it do not need to be immunized again. The CDC emphasized that there is no danger for any child who received the recalled vaccine.

 

This following one is perhaps concerning, and i dont want to dismiss it.  But I'd be curious if the instances of narcolepsy have persisted or were temporary conditions (especially as in young adults sleep conditions can be multifaceted and hard to attribute).  @user Was this the one you are talking about?

At the end of March 2011, an MPA press release stated: "Results from a Swedish registry based cohort study indicate a 4-fold increased risk of narcolepsy in children and adolescents below the age of 20 vaccinated with Pandemrix, compared to children of the same age that were not vaccinated."^[32] The same study found no increased risk in adults who were vaccinated with Pandemrix. While cautioning that the increase in risk for children is still uncertain in magnitude, it recommends they not be vaccinated

 

[user]

14 minutes ago, markedone said:

What are your sources here? I understand the need for skepticism here and to not dismiss arguments either for or against.. but I gave a look at the wiki (of course a brief overview, but it is sourced from relevant data rather than anecdote); concluding in general there haven't been significant long term adverse effects.

in spoiler to not take over the thread..>>

  Reveal hidden contents

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_swine_flu_pandemic_vaccine#Adverse_events

According to Marie-Paule Kieny of WHO assessing the side-effects of large-scale influenza vaccination is complicated by the fact that in any large population a few people will become ill and die at any time.^[71] For example, in any six-week period in the UK six sudden deaths from unknown causes and 22 cases of Guillain–Barré syndrome would be expected, so if everyone in the UK were vaccinated, this background rate of illness and death would continue as normal and some people would die simply by chance soon after the vaccination

 

The U.K. National Health Service stated in 2003 that "There is no evidence of long-term adverse effects due to the exposure levels of thiomersal in vaccines."^[112] The World Health Organization concluded that there is "no evidence of toxicity in infants, children or adults exposed to thiomersal in vaccines".^[113] Indeed, in 2008 a review noted that even though thiomersal was removed from all US childhood vaccines in 2001, this has not changed the number of autism diagnoses, which are still increasing

 

On 15 December 2009, One of the five manufacturers supplying the H1N1 vaccine to the United States recalled thousands of doses because they were not as potent as expected. The French manufacturer Sanofi Pasteur voluntarily recalled about 800,000 doses of vaccine meant for children between the ages of six months and 35 months. The company and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) emphasized that the recall was not prompted by safety concerns, and that even though the vaccine is not quite as potent as it is supposed to be, children who received it do not need to be immunized again. The CDC emphasized that there is no danger for any child who received the recalled vaccine.

 

This following one is perhaps concerning, and i dont want to dismiss it.  But I'd be curious if the instances of narcolepsy have persisted or were temporary conditions (especially as in young adults sleep conditions can be multifaceted and hard to attribute).  @user Was this the one you are talking about?

At the end of March 2011, an MPA press release stated: "Results from a Swedish registry based cohort study indicate a 4-fold increased risk of narcolepsy in children and adolescents below the age of 20 vaccinated with Pandemrix, compared to children of the same age that were not vaccinated."^[32] The same study found no increased risk in adults who were vaccinated with Pandemrix. While cautioning that the increase in risk for children is still uncertain in magnitude, it recommends they not be vaccinated

 

A small portion of kids developed narcolepsy. The exact cause is contentious but it seems to be linked to at which stage kids got vaccinated, ie at a stage where a weakened immune system made it possible for the vaccine to cross the blood-brain barrier and seems to have caused narcolepsy in a few cases. 
Here are some links;

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/history/narcolepsy-flu.html
 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/07/why-pandemic-flu-shot-caused-narcolepsy
 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5104623/
 

The cochrane foundation also has a rather sobering meta analysis of the effectiveness of flu vaccines in general on their site. 
I know COVID is not a flu strain btw. And the incidence of possible narcolepsy caused by pandremix is tiny when you look at the number of vaccinations. 
Just pointing this out because I was very dismissive of any criticism re vaccines until taking the time to check some (what I consider to be) reliable sources. 

Didn’t mean to shit up this thread. Feel free to pm for further exchange of ideas. 

[Cryptowen]

will very likely be goin out primarily to get some strange tbh

Spoiler

some strange new listening material that is

 

[Bodhidharma]

9 hours ago, thumbass said:

I don't go to concerts, for my ears sake

Wanted to see squarepusher but maybe I am glad I am not going to (It hasn't been rescheduled)

dont you wear earplugs?

[thumbass]

1 hour ago, Bodhidharma said:

dont you wear earplugs?

I do of course but still, i have been growing quite afraid of loud noise since i already have ear ringing. I really dont know what the cause is though, i always watch the volume of my music and make sure it isnt too high. Also i havent really been to many concerts before.

[drillkicker]

15 hours ago, zkom said:

If there are problems with some of the vaccines that were not spotted in the testing their probably going to be found in the first few months of distribution.

Not if they're long term problems.

[TubularCorporation]

 

[Bodhidharma]

29 minutes ago, thumbass said:

I do of course but still, i have been growing quite afraid of loud noise since i already have ear ringing. I really dont know what the cause is though, i always watch the volume of my music and make sure it isnt too high. Also i havent really been to many concerts before.

thats fair, if i came across as dismissive i didnt mean to. you only get 1 pair of ears, i too am very afraid of loud noises. tinnitus is sometimes just genetic, just like getting spots or something. ive noticed it somewhat dissipates if i dont listen to any loud music/anything at all for about 4 days. best of luck with it

[MadameChaos]

I'd be keen to go to whatever next decent gig is at oval space. I have issues with alot of Venues though as I'm a miserable old cunt and have zero tolerance for anything that annoys me.

Queues? Fuck off

Shitty toilets? Shit off

Volume cranked to fuck? Nope

[YEK]

3 hours ago, MadameChaos said:

I'd be keen to go to whatever next decent gig is at oval space. I have issues with alot of Venues though as I'm a miserable old cunt and have zero tolerance for anything that annoys me.

Queues? Fuck off

Shitty toilets? Shit off

Volume cranked to fuck? Nope

Lol! Wattem's target audience is getting older and older.

[Richie Sombrero]

8 hours ago, drillkicker said:

Not if they're long term problems.

Well we don't know the longterm problems of covid either, which is much more likely to be worse than a much weaker, attenuated form of the same virus.

I want to go and listen to some live jazz in Ronnie Scott's after this.