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Russian protests in Moscow.


chenGOD

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1 minute ago, dingformung said:

Thanks, I'm going to watch this

found  the first episode. edited my post. 

edit: fckn page break. 

episode 1

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/putins-way/

episode 2.. 

https://www.pbs.org/video/frontline-putins-way/

Edited by ignatius
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11 minutes ago, ignatius said:

100% think the apartment bombings was a false flag by putin. the fact that they uncovered undetonated ordinance that is the exact type and  method used by security services (kgb/FSB) is some good evidence.  was done to so they could blame chechnya and invade making everyone forget about what was going on politically.  is discussed here.. as well as putin's actions prior on his rise to power.  - this is

episode 1

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/putins-way/

episode 2.. 

https://www.pbs.org/video/frontline-putins-way/

do you know about the putin files, by pbs, on youtube? worth noting. many long interviews about putin.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query="the+putin+files"

lex fridman asked dan carlin about putin. fridman says his family in russia likes putin. carlin asks if they miss democratic elections. there's like 10 minutes on the topic. carlin tackles the argument that putin is holding the country together. he suggests that one off-ramp from the current, dangerous situation is that putin could create an avenue for succession.

 

 

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3 hours ago, dingformung said:

Russia becoming more and more authoritarian (not that it wasn't that before) is partly to blame on Merkel. Schröder did a more diplomatic Russia politic which for a short time led Russia to open up and orient towards the West, Merkel spoilt that. Schröder is now working in the Russian oil industry, so there is that weird after taste. But had Merkel chosen a more diplomatic approach, maybe Russia would have continued that course of slowly becoming more liberal.

Germany is a US colony after losing the WWII and have little say in the matter since.

I generally agree with the notion (discussed in detail in this Yale lecture by a TV guy who worked both in US and USSR, now in Russia) that it is the US who created Putin by continuing to disregard his objections, mainly to NATO bases crawling closer and closer to the Russian border. Not to say that Putin is innocent or anything (though he's made greater than he is by Western media), but the lecture notes how USSR and then Russia did not do a single thing against US foreign interests for about 20 years period of 1986-2006 and still was treated as a potential enemy.

Like initially, when Gorbachev agreed to go away from East Germany, supposedly the deal was that US won't go there and the whole Germany would become a neutral zone, at least that's what i heard of Alexander Dugin recalling his private talk with a retired famed US diplomat who participated in that agreement and the diplomat confessed to Dugin that they tricked Gorbachev successfully.

 

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23 minutes ago, Amen Lare said:

I generally agree with the notion (discussed in detail in this Yale lecture by a TV guy who worked both in US and USSR, now in Russia) that it is the US who created Putin by continuing to disregard his objections, mainly to NATO bases crawling closer and closer to the Russian border.

It's a bit hypocritical of Putin to say he has no interest in invading the neighboring Easten European countries, and yet be upset about the NATO bases established in these countries. If he is not going to attack these countries, why does he see these bases as a problem? The idea that NATO itself could invade Russia is so implausible that it doesn't really count as an answer here. 
Also, the main reason for the expansion of NATO bases to countries neighbouring Russia was that these Easten European countries themselves invited NATO there to be guarded against Russia. The expansionism of the USA had a much smaller role in it. 

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1 hour ago, Amen Lare said:

Germany is a US colony after losing the WWII and have little say in the matter since.

All German politicians are constantly monitored by US secret services and I'm sure there is a lot of secret interference in political processes happening. "Colony" is of course hyperbolical but the US influence is extreme. Germany wouldn't have to be so submissive towards the US but companies that are connected to Wall Street pay our political parties for doing certain politics that aren't necessarily in the biggest national - or international - interest. The extended arm of the American industrial-military complex and their power elites reach deeply into other nation's governments. Schröder kept Germany from entering the Iraq war against strong pressure by the US - his biggest achievement - so apparently it is possible to act against US politics, theoretically. ?‍♂️

1 hour ago, ignatius said:
1 hour ago, dingformung said:

Thanks, I'm going to watch this

found  the first episode. edited my post. 

I can't play this. Maybe PBS found a way to block people from their website who access with a VPN to evade country restrictions, which would suck.

Edited by dingformung
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2 hours ago, dingformung said:

She didn't directly make him more authoritarian but she couldn't make him more liberal either, as Schröder apparently could. Maybe Putin was just playing a smart game but during the Schröder era Putin was way more interested in doing compromises.

Ah ok that clears things up, cause I knew that Merkel opposed the US sanctions and pushed (is pushing?) for more Russian natural resources to flow to Germany. 
 

I think your last sentence here is likely accurate. Putin was still consolidating power during Schröder‘s terms in office. So much like China, it’s been a build up of power. Both have played a smart long game (China was arguably better at the deceit leading up to the present) but they are both showing their true colours as authoritarians out in the open now. 
 

The upholding of the elections in the US was a vital show of democracy and the power that the electorate has. It was also a very powerful reminder that those institutions we trust (in democratic countries) continue to be safeguarded and protected, as well as modernized where necessary to address the evolution of society. 

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10 hours ago, chenGOD said:

Ah ok that clears things up, cause I knew that Merkel opposed the US sanctions and pushed (is pushing?) for more Russian natural resources to flow to Germany. 

Her party is mostly against Nord Stream 2 (the planned gas pipeline between Russia and Germany that would supply not only Germany but the entire EU) and as usual, she takes the stance of least conflict. Something lukewarm in between that nobody can really point their finger at and argue against.

Nord Stream 2 makes sense, Russian gas is more environment friendly than the US alternative, much cheaper and the closer trading relationships could increase Western influence on Russia and could also be a peace factor (something the Baltic states would really appreciate). Naturally the US sanctions European countries for Nord Stream 2 in order to sell their overpriced and absolutely ecologically harmful fracking gas. I'm not saying that natural gas from Russia is especially good for the environment and that there aren't risks - certain secret services might try to sabotage the pipelines or there might be mistakes etc. - but all in all it's irrational not to realise this project. The US keeps sanctioning Germany and other EU countries for it, though, so maybe the US sanctions might in the end turn the tide - just like they kept Siemens doing business in Iran. We will see.

https://www.politico.eu/article/angela-merkel-joe-biden-nord-stream-2/

(Admittedly what I said in my earlier post about her "loving" the sanctions was hyperbolical [and not literally correct in that sense] and referred to a general stance of blind transatlanticism she and her party has - or used to have before Trump)

Edited by dingformung
siemens not samsung dangit
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1 hour ago, dingformung said:

All German politicians are constantly monitored by US secret services and I'm sure there is a lot of secret interference in political processes happening. "Colony" is of course hyperbolical but the US influence is extreme. Germany wouldn't have to be so submissive towards the US but companies that are connected to Wall Street pay our political parties for doing certain politics that aren't necessarily in the biggest national - or international - interest. The extended arm of the American industrial-military complex and their power elites reach deeply into other nation's governments. Schröder kept Germany from entering the Iraq war against strong pressure by the US - his biggest achievement - so apparently it is possible to act against US politics, theoretically. ?‍♂️

I can't play this. Maybe PBS found a way to block people from their website who access with a VPN to evade country restrictions, which would suck.

i heard it's on the torrents. ?

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3 hours ago, Taupe Beats said:

The cynical side of me thinks that he's going to automatically keep opinions he had on German leaders from his days in the Stasi.

And the same goes for Merkel, who was in the Socialist Party and under direct command of Soviet officials. I'm sure she doesn't have the highest opinion of these sort of people, either. Putin as a KGB man was above Stasi people, hierarchically.

 

3 hours ago, Taupe Beats said:

Putin would have become more authoritarian with time no matter who was in charge in Germany. Between the rise of the Chinese economic influence on a world stage and the constant yo-yo of power styles in the United States, those alone parallel with the trajectory of Putin's despotic leanings.

I think the Germany-Russia relationship is crucial for the relationship of Russia to the West. Good point mentioning China, though, whose influence is a huge factor.

 

Sorry, that's all only loosely on-topic. Carry on

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2 hours ago, dingformung said:

Her party is mostly against Nord Stream 2 (the planned gas pipeline between Russia and Germany that would supply not only Germany but the entire EU) and as usual, she takes the stance of least conflict.

https://www.worldoil.com/news/2021/1/21/merkel-stands-by-nord-stream-2-but-is-open-to-discussing-russia-with-biden

https://www.ft.com/content/a26cacdf-7238-4417-b0b7-696eeeeb239c

So it’s the party and not her that opposes it? Or have the foreigners got it all wrong?

Asking honestly - I know nothing about German politics.

I do know that sanctions on Russia will do nothing to improve the lot of the people, not will they dissuade the Russian leaders from being corrupt as hell (for the same reason they won’t work in North Korea).

I suppose the bit about Merkel is largely moot, as it appears she has said she won’t run again for Chancellor?

 

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10 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

So it’s the party and not her that opposes it?

I didn't mean to turn this into a thread about German politics - maybe let's discuss the actual topic instead - but she actually does often have a position that's contrary to that of the majority of her party, she is left of her own party which is partly the reason for the success of the far-right AfD who managed to fish for conservatives that weren't happy with the modernisation of the CDU and Merkel's more pragmatic centrist course. Another example is the refugee policy. Many people in her party wanted to be a lot more hostile toward refugees entering Europe as a result of the mess that the Middle East for various reasons is but she decided to take a more reasonable humanitarian approach. As much as I don't align with her ideologically, I am worried that we will end up with a worse chancellor this year.

 

20 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

Or have the foreigners got it all wrong?

Which foreigners got what wrong? I don't understand...

 

20 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

Asking honestly

I expected that. I didn't know there is another way to do it.

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Foreign reporters I meant by foreigners. Apologies for not being more clear. 
 

Didn't Merkel start out as being big on deregulation? Weird to hear her called left, but I suppose her policies on the migrants is very left of center.
 

Tried to keep on topic but tangents are always such fun. 
 

Interesting to see the difference in reporting. 
Indian Express reports over 800 arrested

BBC reports more than 3000 detained

Deutsche Welle reports “thousands detained” (including 460 in St. Petersburg @ignatius, where Russians are also protesting ? )

and not to beat a dead horse but one can’t help but think the US govt response would have have been slightly different (if there was one at all) had Biden not won the election. 

 


 

 

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5 hours ago, chenGOD said:

Didn't Merkel start out as being big on deregulation? Weird to hear her called left, but I suppose her policies on the migrants is very left of center.

To be clear, I didn't call her "left", I called her "left to her party", that means she embodies the social-conservative wing of the CDU. That only means others in her party are more right-wing than her, not that she isn't neoliberal & conservative. She is a center-right politician.

I regret ejaculating my opinion all over this thread, damn red wine lol

Edited by dingformung
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41 minutes ago, dingformung said:

To be clear, I didn't call her "left", I called her "left to her party", that means she embodies the social-conservative wing of the CDU. That only means others in her party are more right-wing than her, not that she isn't neoliberal & conservative. She is a center-right politician.

I regret ejaculating my opinion all over this thread, damn red wine lol

Yeah my bad, I misinterpreted your comments. I blame all the belgian ale!

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15 hours ago, chenGOD said:

I suppose the bit about Merkel is largely moot, as it appears she has said she won’t run again for Chancellor?

Why does the fact that her chancellorship will end in 2021 make the point moot, though?

The point was that the transition from Schröder to Merkel in 2005 indeed had more impact on Russia's behaviour/course shift than it may be clear to most people, which has nothing to do with the end of her chancellorship in 2021, so I don't really understand what you mean by that.

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1 hour ago, dingformung said:

Why does the fact that her chancellorship will end in 2021 make the point moot, though?

The point was that the transition from Schröder to Merkel in 2005 indeed had more impact on Russia's behaviour/course shift than it may be clear to most people, which has nothing to do with the end of her chancellorship in 2021, so I don't really understand what you mean by that.

As she's not running for office again, she won't be able to affect things one way or the other. Your original post said:

"Russia becoming more and more authoritarian (not that it wasn't that before) is partly to blame on Merkel."

Also, I disagree that more diplomatic engagement would have constrained Putin. He would have done largely the same as Hu and Xi in China, and built power under the guise of friendliness with the West. The end result would have been the same (though originating from different ideological positions).

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/24/russia-downplays-navalny-protests-as-it-dismisses-us-diktats

Russian gov. speaks!

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23 hours ago, ignatius said:

100% think the apartment bombings was a false flag by putin. the fact that they uncovered undetonated ordinance that is the exact type and  method used by security services (kgb/FSB) is some good evidence.  was done to so they could blame chechnya and invade making everyone forget about what was going on politically.  is discussed here.. as well as putin's actions prior on his rise to power.  - this is

episode 1

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/putins-way/

episode 2.. 

https://www.pbs.org/video/frontline-putins-way/

I completely forgot about those.

My knowledge on the nuanced and specific context of the Second Chechen war is scant but a big take-away from it is that Chechens who became Kremlin allies ended up in power and most of them fought against the Russians in the first war. Kadyrov is a fucking tyrant with a perpetual slush fund but a stabilizing agent of sort. Since those bombings were used to expand Russian involvement in the War in the region and ensure Chechnya remained a Russian state.

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7 minutes ago, joshuatxuk said:

I completely forgot about those.

My knowledge on the nuanced and specific context of the Second Chechen war is scant but a big take-away from it is that Chechens who became Kremlin allies ended up in power and most of them fought against the Russians in the first war. Kadyrov is a fucking tyrant with a perpetual slush fund but a stabilizing agent of sort. Since those bombings were used to expand Russian involvement in the War in the region and ensure Chechnya remained a Russian state.

many also think the war is the wave that Putin rode to power. that guy in chechnya is the one arresting all the gay people? i think he also made a bunch of weird videos talking about his cat right? 

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7 hours ago, ignatius said:

many also think the war is the wave that Putin rode to power. that guy in chechnya is the one arresting all the gay people? i think he also made a bunch of weird videos talking about his cat right? 

Yeah granted Chechen culture is steeped in machismo and homophobia and while Russia's steeped with prejudice against LGBTQA+ people Chechnya is far more dangerous. Hell it's rough to be outspoken as a leftist or broadly antigovernmental at all. 

Kadyrov straight up denies any persecution goes in the "fake news" vein while simultaneously double-downing on vitriolic rhetoric. It's a very horrifying manner, basically he's echoed the fact that Chechen law enforcement washes their hands of it and allows vigilantes to kill gays. 

Quote

 "you cannot detain and persecute people who simply do not exist in the republic. If there were such people in Chechnya, the law-enforcement organs wouldn't need to have anything to do with them because their relatives would send them somewhere from which there is no returning."

Kadyrov is comically corrupt and rich with lavish and absurd luxury items. Very akin to other Central Asian dictators and Gulf State emirs. (And the way the Trump's want to act) He's like Putin's brutish sycophant, the "little dragon" IIRC. Similar to Turkey, Philippines, Brazil, etc. he remains popular through fear, populist ramble and relentless re-development, investments, and your typical late stage capitalism. Grozy looks new and shiny but it's far more restrictive there for the marginilized than it was under the Soviets. The Russians fought Islamic insurgents but akin to Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and other conservative states the actual government enforce draconian laws and squash opposition in ways "subtle and nuanced" enough to maintain outside support.

jylqufqv34051.jpg

 

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The UN vote map is pretty meaningless - the resolution was promoted by China and Russia, so obvious political games are afoot.

The other story is more telling about the cultural influence of neo-nazism, and is more worrisome than I realized. Although I wonder if one can call it neo-nazism in the Ukraine, given their history with the Nazis.

This is an interesting read on the current situation: http://www.radicalrightanalysis.com/2019/11/30/zelensky-struggles-to-contain-ukraines-neo-nazi-problem/

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28 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

The UN vote map is pretty meaningless - the resolution was promoted by China and Russia, so obvious political games are afoot.

The other story is more telling about the cultural influence of neo-nazism, and is more worrisome than I realized. Although I wonder if one can call it neo-nazism in the Ukraine, given their history with the Nazis.

This is an interesting read on the current situation: http://www.radicalrightanalysis.com/2019/11/30/zelensky-struggles-to-contain-ukraines-neo-nazi-problem/

That explains Ukraine's votes. While that might have factored in the U.S. has a long history of weird hills to die on and the GOP tends to reject any UN resolution. It might lead to globalist black helicopters turning the freakin' frogs gay.

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