Jump to content

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, psn said:

I didn't mean the intrinsic relevance of the work itself, rather its relevance as a factor in successfully communicating Disintegration Tapes to the world. 

 

Yeah, something like that. I was referring loosely to Jungian theory.

gotcha. I’m basically in full agreement here, only I enjoy the loops lol

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 154
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Late to the party, sorry.  I found the dlps because (iirc) back when the Japanese exclusive track on "the campfire headphase" was available, someone pointed out that the sounds toward the middle

I was just sitting here enjoying my life. And then this tape loop ASSHOLE showed up

Posted Images

17 minutes ago, beerwolf said:

Alcofribas in full attack mode

i'm just pushing back at 3 pages of people whinging about billy baz.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Alcofribas said:

i'm just pushing back at 3 pages of people whinging about billy baz.

whoz billy baz?

Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Alcofribas said:

i think the tendency to make objective claims about the value of art is weird. 

I don't think it's so weird. I don't think it's always reliable either. I had a professor in grad school that would ofter have someone put up 3 or more paintings and ask the group to anonymously vote by paper ballot on which was the best one. The results were more than often close to, if not unanimous. I would say there were usually at least 3 to 5 different cultures represented in a given class. This was just a simple measure of quality, but all the little details go into a persons assessment of quality, so in some way this simple test inadvertently covers most objective measures of the physical object at least. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, eassae said:

I don't think it's so weird. I don't think it's always reliable either. I had a professor in grad school that would ofter have someone put up 3 or more paintings and ask the group to anonymously vote by paper ballot on which was the best one. The results were more than often close to, if not unanimous. I would say there were usually at least 3 to 5 different cultures represented in a given class. This was just a simple measure of quality, but all the little details go into a persons assessment of quality, so in some way this simple test inadvertently covers most objective measures of the physical object at least. 

there is nothing wrong with this but i would describe it as a consensus, not a verification of the objective value of a work of art. grad school students agreeing on which artwork their professor shows them is the best one isn't exactly an air tight measurement of objectivity imo. even when you say it's a "measure of quality," - this would disqualify any work of art that deliberately undermined such conventions. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Alcofribas said:

there is nothing wrong with this but i would describe it as a consensus, not a verification of the objective value of a work of art. grad school students agreeing on which artwork their professor shows them is the best one isn't exactly an air tight measurement of objectivity imo. even when you say it's a "measure of quality," - this would disqualify any work of art that deliberately undermined such conventions. 

They were judging their own art work, not what the professor provided, but either way I would disagree with you. I don't think it's perfect but I do think it demonstrates a least a modicum of objectivity of an art works value to the majority. It's true that grad students may be a bit flawed of control group, but most in this can recognize art that "undermines" conventions of quality and still judge the most successful work. We could get in a whole messy discussion of the difference between objectivity and consensus. At least I think it would be sticky and can see why you would choose that language.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, eassae said:

They were judging their own art work, not what the professor provided, but either way I would disagree with you. I don't think it's perfect but I do think it demonstrates a least a modicum of objectivity of an art works value to the majority. It's true that grad students may be a bit flawed of control group, but most in this can recognize art that "undermines" conventions of quality and still judge the most successful work. We could get in a whole messy discussion of the difference between objectivity and consensus. At least I think it would be sticky and can see why you would choose that language.

yeah idk man. now days in order to be a “serious writer” you basically have to go to a writers workshop and i am not at all willing to say this has lead to an increase in objectively better writing out there. you can get people together and have them discuss their work and form agreements about what they think are the best qualities and stuff but I’m just not sure this has anything to do with “objective value” or whatever. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

9/11 is a very powerful example of the subjective/objective dichotomy. We all globally watched it live in real time on the TV and have a shared experience. And we all remember our own experience of that day vividly - where we were, with whom, etc. We all have our own story of that day. 

And this is where I think there's a flaw in Disintegration Tapes, in that Basinki's attachment of his music to that day is just as random and subjective as all the other insignificant things 6 billion of us did that day. All these auxiliary events don't hold any real claim to an elevated, shared significance. 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Alcofribas said:

yeah idk man. now days in order to be a “serious writer” you basically have to go to a writers workshop and i am not at all willing to say this has lead to an increase in objectively better writing out there. you can get people together and have them discuss their work and form agreements about what they think are the best qualities and stuff but I’m just not sure this has anything to do with “objective value” or whatever. 

It's true that what's in fashion influences people perception and would hurt the argument for objectivity. But I would say I've witnessed, several times in my life, the spontaneous appreciation of a thing regardless of education or background by a mass of people. Now that may be a bold claim in this age of constant manipulation, but I think I can tell genuine like from the manufactured. I may be deceiving myself though.

BTW, I could care less about the 9/11 angle.

Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, eassae said:

I don't think it's so weird. I don't think it's always reliable either. I had a professor in grad school that would ofter have someone put up 3 or more paintings and ask the group to anonymously vote by paper ballot on which was the best one. The results were more than often close to, if not unanimous. I would say there were usually at least 3 to 5 different cultures represented in a given class. This was just a simple measure of quality, but all the little details go into a persons assessment of quality, so in some way this simple test inadvertently covers most objective measures of the physical object at least. 

so, the 'consensus' on watmm is that the loops are shit, right? only a few lost souls likes it, right?

  • Like 2
  • Facepalm 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, xox said:

so, the 'consensus' on watmm is that the loops are shit, right? only a few lost souls likes it, right?

I hope so! Or I joined the wrong forum😊 

  • Burger 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, psn said:

9/11 is a very powerful example of the subjective/objective dichotomy. We all globally watched it live in real time on the TV and have a shared experience. And we all remember our own experience of that day vividly - where we were, with whom, etc. We all have our own story of that day. 

And this is where I think there's a flaw in Disintegration Tapes, in that Basinki's attachment of his music to that day is just as random and subjective as all the other insignificant things 6 billion of us did that day. All these auxiliary events don't hold any real claim to an elevated, shared significance. 

i guess i don't see this as a flaw, he's just sharing his experience. what else can he do? it's definitely random and subjective but i don't think that in any way means that it has no meaning for other people. i don't know that it's meant to be "elevated," it just is what it is, and many people seem to identify with it in some way. 

it seems like if we follow your idea here it would lead into total nihilism, never sharing anything with others bc everything is meaningless and entirely subjective. 

idk, i think if someone writes a book or an essay about 9/11 we all take this as totally normal. this is their opinion about what took place, this is their account of what it was like for them or why they think it happened. no one really bats an eye at this, there's nothing weird about an individual describing this event that 6 billion other people experienced. indeed, best-selling books have done exactly this and many people even find comfort and meaning in seeing something they experienced described by someone else.

but for some reason some random electronic musician released 4 cds of loops and wrote two paragraphs making a kind of impressionistic connection between his life/art and 9/11 and people seem to feel this is really inappropriate, a gimmick, a flaw, fake, etc. idk, it's not hard for me to just take it with a grain of salt, it's just not that weird to me. that being said, i've talked to basinski a lot over the years and have even spent time with him at his "nyc loft" and it's quite possible my trust in his honesty is informed by this personal experience.

 

Just now, eassae said:

I hope so! Or I joined the wrong forum😊 

 

Screen Shot 2021-03-28 at 1.07.24 PM.png

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Alcofribas said:

idk, i think if someone writes a book or an essay about 9/11 we all take this as totally normal.

This would be a topical/thematic/whatever treatment of the subject. Reflection and time has been invested after the fact of the event, as with the Guernica and Trains examples you mentioned earlier. The book/art itself contains elements/themes that refer to the subject.

Edit: It would be interesting to see an art history survey of famous works that were attributed to some historic event that happened after their creation. There are probably loads.

Edited by psn
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Alcofribas said:

but for some reason some random electronic musician released 4 cds of loops and wrote two paragraphs making a kind of impressionistic connection between his life/art and 9/11 and people seem to feel this is really inappropriate, a gimmick, a flaw, fake, etc.

hey, it's his art and he can do what ever he wants, you're missing the point all this time! the point is that everybody else is free to call his art shit, subjectively speaking if you want! 

my opinion is that music alone is mediocre (at best) but after he opportunistically connected the music to the 9/11 it became pure shit as a whole, he degraded the music with that act and if someone doesn't understand why it'd be impossible to explain, impossible! same as you can't explain why that wasn't a shitty move 

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Alcofribas said:

idk, i think if someone writes a book or an essay about 9/11 we all take this as totally normal

i think psn's point is, that the loops actually weren't "about" 9/11, they just happened to be finished on that day. so the 9/11 theme could be seen as merely tacked on to embellish the piece with gravitas that wasn't originally intended. personally i haven't seen the doc or even listened to the piece, so i wouldn't know better, but tbh that's a plausible angle in my book...

also so far i haven't read anything in your arguments that goes far beyond "but others do it, too", which naturally opens discourse about elitism (genius/artisitic value etc.). not hating here, just an observation. i think i get what you're on about tho, it's cool to vent personal / social rl tragedy into artistic products... and i tend to agree in general.

Edited by jaderpansen
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, psn said:

This would be a topical/thematic/whatever treatment of the subject. Reflection and time has been invested after the fact of the event, as with the Guernica and Trains examples you mentioned earlier. The book/art itself contains elements/themes that refer to the subject.

Edit: It would be interesting to see an art history survey of famous works that were attributed to some historic event that happened after their creation. There are probably loads.

also.

''Picasso was commissioned by the Spanish Republican government to create a large mural for the Spanish pavilion at the 1937 Paris World's Fair.''

''Picasso worked somewhat dispassionately from January until late April on the project's initial sketches, which depicted his perennial theme of an artist's studio. Then, immediately upon hearing reports of the 26 April bombing of Guernica, poet Juan Larrea visited Picasso's home to urge him to make the bombing his subject.''

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

sort of like how SIGN is emotionally resonant because the context of the pandemic? but only by accident. 

will future people tie the context of history to the release or will they just listen to it? probably just listen to it. 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, ignatius said:

sort of like how SIGN is emotionally resonant because the context of the pandemic? but only by accident. 

will future people tie the context of history to the release or will they just listen to it? probably just listen to it. 

 

imagine if ae brothers themselves decide post factum, as billy did, to tie sign to the pandemic! ok, their art but that'd be very disappointing imo and i can't imagine them doing that tbh

  • Burger 1
  • Farnsworth 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, ignatius said:

sort of like how SIGN is emotionally resonant because the context of the pandemic? but only by accident. 

will future people tie the context of history to the release or will they just listen to it? probably just listen to it.

well to make these cases commensurable SIGN would have to look something like this imo:

https://i.ibb.co/njVcWM0/bi01gs3p.jpg

  • Like 1
  • Haha 4
  • Burger 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Joyrex
      Highly underrated band
    • Guest Al5x
      By Guest Al5x
      SELF EXPLANATORY, I'll start us off with some basic suggestions:

       
      Despite the seeming correlation in the title this documentary has nothing to do with 9/11. All about the 2008 financial collapse and everyone and everything that caused it to happen. Very, very interesting, at least for the subject matter, very maddening in places, and a bit too thick in information to process all in one sitting (at least for me ).
       

       
      A documentary that interviews and describes some of the major players of the utterly massive coke importation business in the 1970's and 80's, extremely fast paced, full of likable characters and honestly far more intriguing and enjoyable than movies like Scarface. This film is pure entertainment.
       

       
      Deeply disturbing documentary following one of the most notorious child molesting priests of all time. Gripping, disgusting and oddly interesting.
       
      YOUR TURN!
    • By MIXL2
      Now, I was surprised not to find a thread for this since it has been around for a while, a full version is available in the ballacid channel.
       
       
      However I know that a "remastered" version with fixed audio and better sync amongst other things was available on the channel 
      https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCToSWHTqAl7tNezcRGYc2ng
      at the address youtu.be/gfc_xp113Oo until it was privated sometime during the last year.
      I guess this thread is for discussing the vid but also for letting people know if the remastered version ever becomes available again..
      edit: 
       
    • By Joyrex
      The original 1976 documentary from whence the Canadian band took their name from:
       
×
×
  • Create New...