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Disintegration Loops Documentary


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Just now, cloud capture said:

I remember buying this limited cdr from Jake Mandell called kodama01-healing.  It was just a loop, but listening to it really put me in a good mind set.  I wonder where it is.

it's kind of interesting bc there is a lot of electronic drone/loop-based stuff that is all about healing. like, the whole new age movement is tethered to this primary notion. i basically lump basinski in with this, only his "spin" is that it's directly related to tragedy and loss rather than "celestial healing" or something.

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9 minutes ago, Alcofribas said:

i think there's a kind of highbrow/lowbrow distinction being made, which i reject.

Yeah, this is an interesting point in discussions like this.

On the other hand - my first meeting with this work was at one of my country's most prestigious fine art institutions, with an academic framing - a panel discussion - and a seated, servile audience during the performance. So in my experience the "topicalisation" of the music is actually an attempt to elevate the work from exactly lowbrow to highbrow. And this is one of my main gripes with it.

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2 minutes ago, psn said:

Yeah, this is an interesting point in discussions like this.

On the other hand - my first meeting with this work was at one of my country's most prestigious fine art institutions, with an academic framing - a panel discussion - and a seated, servile audience during the performance. So in my experience the "topicalisation" of the music is actually an attempt to elevate the work from exactly lowbrow to highbrow. And this is one of my main gripes with it.

I 100% agree with this view. My personal encounter has been way more just like here is this random cd I discovered that I ordered directly from baz himself and we ended up emailing back and forth for a couple years and eventually hanging out. so for me he’s always been a humble, highly personable indie artist. but then there’s this whole other field of appreciation of his work which is so serious and “topical” and stuff that i find so lame and cringe. i guess probably “da real B” is somewhere between these - more cringe than i see it but less cringe than you do? 
 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

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19 minutes ago, Alcofribas said:

i think there's a kind of highbrow/lowbrow distinction being made, which i reject.

oh i'm totally with you on that. on the contrary: what i was trying to say was that it might seem like he actually "highbrowed" his work by loading it with artificial context / theoretical substruction that just kinda randomly offered itself at time... but yo, i'm out until i have seen the movie / heard the piece, i'm not in a position to discuss this particular situation / person really. i just generally agree with psn that this is a thing in certain cases.

23 minutes ago, Alcofribas said:

i'm reminded a bit of the kerfuffle about knausgaard writing all this personal information about his family in his book. people were saying you just don't do this, it's exploitative and he's using this highly personal stuff to get famous or whatever. i think i just always find myself in the camp that there are no taboo topics really.

exposing other peoples' private life might be considered a privacy violation for a reason tho... i dunno. somewhat interesting dilemma, that.

16 minutes ago, psn said:

Yeah, this is an interesting point in discussions like this.

On the other hand - my first meeting with this work was at one of my country's most prestigious fine art institutions, with an academic framing - a panel discussion - and a seated, servile audience during the performance. So in my experience the "topicalisation" of the music is actually an attempt to elevate the work from exactly lowbrow to highbrow. And this is one of my main gripes with it.

beat me to it again. XP

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6 minutes ago, jaderpansen said:

oh i'm totally with you on that. on the contrary: what i was trying to say was that it might seem like he actually "highbrowed" his work by loading it with artificial context / theoretical substruction that just kinda randomly offered itself at time... but yo, i'm out until i have seen the movie / heard the piece, i'm not in a position to discuss this particular situation / person really. i just generally agree with psn that this is a thing in certain cases.

exposing other peoples' private life might be considered a privacy violation for a reason tho... i dunno. somewhat interesting dilemma, that.

beat me to it again. XP

A yeah I think you guys are actually articulating something interesting here. I’m kind of defending his work from a lowbrow position but in fact you are critiquing it from the opposite end and in that context I genuinely agree with you two. imo baz never meant it to be this big High Art thing and he has sometimes leaned into that somewhat awkwardly. 

to me it’s just some nice loops innit

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1 hour ago, Berk said:

Im glad I didn't know about the 911 story attached to it when I first discovered the loops.

Most of them are really strong imho. You can't discern the individual instruments at play. It sounds like nature's music or something. 

i knew about the 9/11 connx i'm p sure, probably only listened because bitches on this forum were whining about it tbh. but to me it doesn't register/connect in that way, and i don't care about that aspect of the work at all. the music is beautiful and haunting and at times kinda boring and overdrawn, but all that adds up to a meditative experience for me. also perfect stuff to go to sleep to imho. but the 9/11 stuff, don't care at all about that.

1 hour ago, Alcofribas said:

i'm trying to keep my comments tethered to the context of the thread. to go "far beyond" the but-others-do-it approach would be to completely ignore the caliber of the discussion outside of what psn is providing. i'd like for other people to explain why they always single out the 9/11 thing when in itself it's not unusual behavior. i don't personally need to make the distinction bc i don't see the prob. with this.

but this is an interesting distinction you/psn are making: if the work is "about" the topic, if there is critical distance, we can accept it. it's respectable. but if someone more naively just shares a personal experience we think it's "tacky." i think there's a kind of highbrow/lowbrow distinction being made, which i reject. i think basinski made some candid commentary about a personal tragedy (his decades of work literally crumbling to dust) and how that tragedy transforming into something he eventually found beautiful was a kind of hope he had for the way people could cope with da 9/11. it's a personal thing and he hopes others can find meaning in it.

i'm reminded a bit of the kerfuffle about knausgaard writing all this personal information about his family in his book. people were saying you just don't do this, it's exploitative and he's using this highly personal stuff to get famous or whatever. i think i just always find myself in the camp that there are no taboo topics really. and i think a lot of the more touchy ones will be problematic simply bc there's touchiness and boundaries being pushed and it's hard to evaluate in that kind of environment. i can definitely see how people are put off by the 9/11 component but i also think a lot of that is just a personal bias and they're projecting this malevolence and horribleness into basinski who was basically just trying to make some gushing romantic gesture about loss.

 

you definitely have a weird issue posting images of people's bodies as a kind of "own" and it's cringe as fuck

2 things:

  1. i'm glad you've got the brainspace and energy and talent to explain yourself fully because i'm often in line with your thoughts my good sir, and i sure ain't got the wherewithal or ability to express generally. glad you are.
  2. agree with calling out xox's cringey tendencies here. glad it's not just me noticing.
1 hour ago, xox said:

is your 'objective' opinion? bc i still think that basinski is waaay more cringe, especially with the 9/11 opportunistic shit (edit): and that was my point with the pic

then call out his '9/11 opportunism' and make your point, which you've done multiple times ITT (ineloquently, but still) and then bow out. posting a pic he wanted publicized like it's some win is...weak, at best.

1 hour ago, psn said:

Yeah, this is an interesting point in discussions like this.

On the other hand - my first meeting with this work was at one of my country's most prestigious fine art institutions, with an academic framing - a panel discussion - and a seated, servile audience during the performance. So in my experience the "topicalisation" of the music is actually an attempt to elevate the work from exactly lowbrow to highbrow. And this is one of my main gripes with it.

can definitely see some strong first impressions of any artwork possibly coloring one's take on it. 

46 minutes ago, prdctvsm said:

haven't heard this piece of music yet, but this discussion made me think of gerhard richter's painting 'september'19_001.jpg

looks like a rally interesting piece, sure it's even nicer in person. and i ain't got any 9/11 attachment or sentimentality.

it brings up an interesting juxtaposition actually, how so often in the art world the story is attached to the art piece. many galleries have write-ups besides the art explaining them, of course. but in non-lyrical music, the expression of story/meaning are relatively rare and often looked down upon. (i'm guilty as well, reading Clark's recent explanation for his new album made me laugh, and not in a good way) not always, but there seems to be a tendency for backlash or disinterest in trying to push a narrative with certain types of music. just thinking out loud here.

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decided that if/when i ever hear the loops or see the doc i'll think about this thread and watmm beofre i think about 9/11.. which means i'll think of that pitchfork music journo's hair and how i thought it was a mr show skit. 

i'm so tired i think i'm living my own personal disintegration loop all the time... until the end. 

16 minutes ago, auxien said:

it brings up an interesting juxtaposition actually, how so often in the art world the story is attached to the art piece. many galleries have write-ups besides the art explaining them, of course.

there is a lot of modern art that needs an explanation. Kurt Vonnegut used that theme in one of his novels. i think God Bless you mr rosewater?? i can't remember. 

edit: shit. i can't remember what book of his contronted that.. there's a scene w/a the unveiling of a painting of contemporary art that is described as the embodiment or essense of a partiuclar saint.. but the painting is a a redish pink bright snudge of irridessence or something.. and so people are confused or insulted/offended by what it means.. so the artist explains it. it's quite good. i liked a lot of vonnegut books.

thinking about this thread and that pitchfork journo yotuube because i seem to be stuck on it.. and it's sort of the classic "well, actually..." thing to me for some reason. 

Edited by ignatius
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15 minutes ago, auxien said:

thank

well this billy guy seems like a really nice person so it's not easy for me to talko negative about the work but other ppl (on the net7/yt) piss me off much more than the work by giving it much more significance than it should have received imo but i see that some of you took my sarcasm and negativism too personally so ill definitely stop with that

//peace

Edited by xox
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that one loop they play in all the video clips is quite lush and somber sounding. reinforces the big sad of that day for locals especially i bet. sounds like stuff that's in the adam curtis docs too. 

i watched it (9/11) on tv at home and then more when i got to work in the lounge at the studio i worked at. when the 2nd tower fell "well, they got their war now". 

the studio had about 6 months of projects booked.. like solid lockouts back to back... a bout a week after 9/11 they all cancelled, postponed. that was the beginning of the end of my commercial studio days. 

Edited by ignatius
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22 minutes ago, xox said:

but i see that some of you took my sarcasm and negativism too personally

i didn't take anything personally: you've not attacked me and i sure don't give a shit whether you or anyone likes a thing i like. as if.

24 minutes ago, xox said:

\but other ppl (on the net7/yt) piss me off much more than the work by giving it much more significance than it should have received imo

seems like the issue is with random trolls & idiots & assholes on teh interwebz and/or yourself. good luck with that.

 

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Late to the party, sorry. 

I found the dlps because (iirc) back when the Japanese exclusive track on "the campfire headphase" was available, someone pointed out that the sounds toward the middle of the track sounded like Basinski. So I checked it out and learned about the origins of the loops, and thought that his was some artist's right to make art in horrific circumstances when lots of people thought the world was coming to an end (there was much hysteria, but it's really understandable in context), and all that doesn't really strike me as objectionable at all. I don't get the outrage except as yet another instance of online outrage fueled by a culture that's informed by social media norms and algorithms that prioritize emotionally-laden content in order to keep one roped to the website for longer. It's not good for anyone to feel and act that way, really. 

But I gotta say two things. First, those disintegration loops didn't really become significant for me until I was going through probably the worst time in my life (so far) and I needed to sit and reflect a lot for a long time instead of destroying myself. Somebody recorded some beautiful time-lapse photography to accompany his choice tracks and uploaded those to youtube, and those are probably the most important, simple things on that entire website to me, personally. The 9/11 thing fell by the wayside for me, entirely. Someone mentioned the meditative quality of the boringness, and I think that's a really useful reminder. We're all so plugged in so much, so distracted, so addicted to pointless information, and it's good to have these repetitive tracks that are kinda boring but also emotionally compelling (at least for some of us). It played that role for me, and for that, I'm very grateful. Sure, plenty of other works can do this same job, so if this isn't your jam, fine. 

Second, the idea of this documentary strikes me as very bad. People really seem to enjoy this activity of talking--in a very moving, powerful, rhetorical way--about why some artist was the greatest ever. To those in the circle-jerk, this does a lot for them, but for those who aren't, this almost never works. Why do people enjoy this sort of thing? It always used to strike me as very weird, even when I was a little kid, how people in my family used to puff up and talk about how the music of their generation was the best there ever was, and how the music of today is indebted so much to The Greats, or if it's not then it's all garbage. What a weird thing to be proud of, something that you never had anything to do with, something that you yourself didn't make. If some work of art is very good and you want to help people appreciate what you see in it, that's great: give us the perspective, if you've got it. But that's not what I can see in that silly trailer. It looks like the academic/obscurantist/ambient art-world version of "this is the album that defined a generation" sort of schtick. That's why I am not at all excited about such a documentary. 

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