Marxist thought

[dingformung]

9 minutes ago, Diurn said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night-watchman_state

Clearly without a doubt only works in areas with low population density

[zlemflolia]

daily reminder that the NAP and private property rights inherent to libertarianism  minarchism  and all forms of right anarchism are just liberalism in disguise since they inevitably form another dictatorship of the bourgeoisie since the markets that form atop these private property rights just replicate capitalism, which centralizes into larger and thus more efficient capitals, turning the night watchman state or whatever else into a state entirely controlled by and for the benefit of the bourgeoisie, i.e. a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, hence libertarians are just liberals in disguise

Edited April 27, 2021 by cyanobacteria

[dingformung]

I agree with your diagnosis but not with your conclusion. I'm asmort

[zlemflolia]

59 minutes ago, Valleyfold said:

Yes and I want others to have those privileges as well lol. And the only place? How many countries do you think have universal healthcare?

so you want it but you dont want the people of those countries to figure out how to get it. you want them to use your method which so far hasnt worked in those other countries. sounds like you are wasting peoples time

name some social democracies in the global south or otherwise third world countries.  it only works for imperialist capitalist countries which by definition not everyone can be, since an empire requires the colonized

Edited April 28, 2021 by cyanobacteria

[usagi]

11 hours ago, brian trageskin said:

imagine the fun we would all have if zeff ruled the world

 

[zlemflolia]

23 minutes ago, Valleyfold said:

“Name a “social democracy” (probs not the right term but whatever) that’s doing badly. You can’t.” Damn, sounds like it’s a good model that should be adopted elsewhere. 
 

But oh right, implementing something that already exists elsewhere is impossible, unlike a utopian society that has never worked and gets people killed. 

do you understand class conflict and contradictory nature of imperialist vs imperialized nations?

social democracy eithers works if you're a predominantly white country with oil (if youre a predominantly brown country they come murder your leader if you try to do "social democracy" so they can get the oil) or if youre benefiting from past colonization or taking part in markets with present imperial powers

Edited April 28, 2021 by cyanobacteria

[prdctvsm]

[diatoms]

 

                                              If you're not having Fun, you're doing something wrong   - Groucho Marx

[cwmbrancity]

On 4/28/2021 at 6:33 AM, usagi said:

 

“Fuck off back to Georgia, dead boy”

class (war)

[logakght]

You should read Capitalist Realism by Max Fisher

Edited April 29, 2021 by logakght

[Cryptowen]

9 minutes ago, logakght said:

You should read Capitalist Realism by Max Fisher

Yeah Capitalist Realism is ril good/easily accessible/relevant to the present situation more or less

Nick Land's writings on capitalism come from a similar mileu and are also good, but might require dropping acid to fully appreciate

[logakght]

Just now, Cryptowen said:

Yeah Capitalist Realism is ril good/easily accessible/relevant to the present situation more or less

Nick Land's writings on capitalism come from a similar mileu and are also good, but might require dropping acid to fully appreciate

Indeed. Btw one of my favorite things ever:

 

 

[Cryptowen]

^That's come up in my yt feed a few times, I really gotta sit down & watch it cuz the first few seconds are lushhh

[zlemflolia]

yeah lets not hes definitely not a marxist

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Land

>Land is also known, along with fellow neo-reactionary thinker Curtis Yarvin, for developing in his latter works the anti-egalitarian and anti-democratic ideas behind neo-reaction and the Dark Enlightenment. His later work has become increasingly focused on advocating for "scientific racism" and eugenics, or what he calls "hyper-racism."^[7][8][9]

[zlemflolia]

3 hours ago, logakght said:

Indeed. Btw one of my favorite things ever:

 

 

>"nothing human makes it out of the near future"

very possible, disgusting these accelerationists and techno utopians advocate for it.  read Nick Bostrom - Superintelligence. id say only socialism can avoid AI takeover.  it will be the bourgeoisie controlling the AI that takes over.  and they will be taken over by it.

[zlemflolia]

the video invokes a syncretic combination of futurism, faux-history worship, technology, and destruction of existing structures. visceral and interesting artistically but ideologically fascistic, inhumane, anti-nature, and disgusting. i hate the path these freaks want to go down.  genetically engineered super-humans bringing forth the singularity to achieve technological slavery as fast as possible.

in another way they are useful of bringing to the forefront exactly what needs to be opposed.  its a matter of information asymmetry.  lets say someone opposes fascism so much they accidentally start inventing fascistic theory to attack and inadvertently advance the cause of fascism.  or let's say in attempting to explain the potential power of the enemy they accidentally invent new ways in which the enemy can achieve power and inadvertently help them

it evokes the marxism focus on praxis and struggle rather than idealism.  but this opposition to idealism must be tempered by a lack of anti-intellectualism.  instead the intellectualism must be coupled with the praxis to avoid the idealism becoming reactionary

[logakght]

14 minutes ago, cyanobacteria said:

>"nothing human makes it out of the near future"

very possible, disgusting these accelerationists and techno utopians advocate for it.  read Nick Bostrom - Superintelligence. id say only socialism can avoid AI takeover.  it will be the bourgeoisie controlling the AI that takes over.  and they will be taken over by it.

thanks indeed Bostrom is in my readlist

[Cryptowen]

@cyanobacteriaare you familiar with Capital as Power? http://bnarchives.yorku.ca/259/

They agree with Marx on many points but are also kinda doing their own thing, incorporating elements of Veblen (what's your take on Veblen?) in order to build a new theory of capitalist power relations. it's a good book & i promise that they aren't techno-eugenicists afaik

[cwmbrancity]

6 hours ago, Cryptowen said:

Yeah Capitalist Realism is ril good/easily accessible/relevant to the present situation more or less

Nick Land's writings on capitalism come from a similar mileu and are also good, but might require dropping acid to fully appreciate

 

Fisher was an outstanding thinker & writer. Land is, was & forever shall be a sociopathic kook, who considers organisations like the O9A "fascinating".

Try not to give Zeff such easy outs.

[Cryptowen]

51 minutes ago, cwmbrancity said:

Land is, was & forever shall be a sociopathic kook

for the record i'm not signal boosting NL overall, I just think some of his stim-fuelled writings from the 90s about Capitalism being a timebending AI from the future retroactively creating the conditions needed for its own existence are kinda neat

The problem with Nick Land is that he came up with a bunch of striking nightmare scenarios & then said "alright fellas lets make it happen"

Edited April 30, 2021 by Cryptowen

[zlemflolia]

12 minutes ago, Cryptowen said:

for the record i'm not signal boosting NL overall, I just think some of his stim-fuelled writings from the 90s about Capitalism being a timebending AI from the future retroactively creating the conditions needed for its own existence are kinda neat

The problem with Nick Land is that he came up with a bunch of striking nightmare scenarios & then said "alright fellas lets make it happen"

interesting, reminds me of rocko's basilisk

[Cryptowen]

9 minutes ago, cyanobacteria said:

interesting, reminds me of rocko's basilisk

Yeah it's kinda similar to that actually. 

I view Nick Land mostly as an Ideas Guy, and specifically an Ideas Guy who was at his peak when he was more or less acting as a channel for 90s rave/cyber culture. He came up with some striking concepts & gave them enough of a philosophical foundation to provide food for thought. But at a certain point he veered far to the right. So I'd say some of his old stuff (or the CCRU material) is worth reading more or less as thought experiments, but be prepared to get off the train when need be because he ends up going in a much different direction than what the early work indicates

I also don't identify as an accelerationist but I think its produced some adventurous material. afa 2010s ideologies go the stuff groups like Endnotes do with Communisation is interesting to me, and anyone raising questions about the implications of human psychology/social structure in relation to the emergence of the internet is doing important work.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Cryptowen

[zlemflolia]

6 hours ago, Cryptowen said:

@cyanobacteriaare you familiar with Capital as Power? http://bnarchives.yorku.ca/259/

They agree with Marx on many points but are also kinda doing their own thing, incorporating elements of Veblen (what's your take on Veblen?) in order to build a new theory of capitalist power relations. it's a good book & i promise that they aren't techno-eugenicists afaik

they both look interesting, not that familiar.  reading about these two im failing to see the distinctions or deep distinctions from marxism, they seem compatible as interpretations or reframings of it with new terminology.  marx views capital as power pretty heavily in his analysis of the relationship between capital and the state and the nature of capital as an entity to itself alien from the worker, and even alien to the individual capitalist though unalien to the capitalist class, and the provider of power.  i definitely have not read these entire long things

[Cryptowen]

3 hours ago, cyanobacteria said:

reading about these two im failing to see the distinctions or deep distinctions from marxism, they seem compatible as interpretations or reframings of it with new terminology

Yeah I read it last fall, and from what I recall they actually don't seem to disagree with Marx all that much. It's more like a reframing of Marx's system: instead of treating capital in terms of surplus labour value & the ways in which it is used by industrial society/the capitalist class, they focus far more on the historical process by which the bourgeois used the idea of capitalism as a way to gain & maintain power. That's the part of the book that's really interesting to me - they cover details that Marx doesn't get into so much in the latter part of Capital vol1 with his own historical analysis, going all the way back to the collapse of the Roman Empire & the gradual emergence of  mercantile power within the feudal system.

[zlemflolia]

happy may day fellow communists