NOT Coronavirus COVID-19

[Satans Little Helper]

Wait, are we back to "Covid is a flu"? Or rather "just a flu". OK, sceptics tend to be all over the place, imo. Not an anti-vaxxer but the mRNA thing basically "destroys you natural immune system". (I'm still OK, btw. Thank you very much for your concerns wrt my immune system. Appreciated) And covid is just a flu. No biggy. Have we got more flavors? Sure, there's no sign the healthcare system risks overloading when this thing is on the loose in a population.

My apologies for putting sceptics in the same box as the 5G/magnetic/cant get kids/autism/Qanon crowd.

[dcom]

4.3 million dead vs. less than a handful medically confirmed fatal reactions to the vaccines - with hundreds of millions billions of doses administered.

Edited August 11, 2021 by dcom

[Claudius t Ansuulim]

ok, perhaps I should clarify that statement then. When I said “destroy your natural immune system” I was referring to the possibility that we are talking about boosters and annual shots, which is where it looks this thing is headed imo.  That kind of program for a technology that hasn’t really been evaluated long-term is just stupid. and dangerous. if somebody hasn’t gotten sick in YEARS, let them keep doing their thing. we’re all trying to stay safe and healthy for the most part, but if you don’t see the shortsightedness in jumping headfirst into a mandated annual drug program I don’t really know what to tell you…

[Blir]

6 hours ago, Claudius t Ansuulim said:

uhm, this virus is endemic, has been since the day it jumped the shark and hitched a ride out the lab. There’s no “defeating it”, it’s part of the environment. But if y’all wanna destroy your natural immune systems go right fucking ahead, just leave me out of it.

lol you're a fucking moron

[thefxbip]

8 minutes ago, Claudius t Ansuulim said:

ok, perhaps I should clarify that statement then. When I said “destroy your natural immune system” I was referring to the possibility that we are talking about boosters and annual shots, which is where it looks this thing is headed imo.  That kind of program for a technology that hasn’t really been evaluated long-term is just stupid. and dangerous. if somebody hasn’t gotten sick in YEARS, let them keep doing their thing. we’re all trying to stay safe and healthy for the most part, but if you don’t see the shortsightedness in jumping headfirst into a mandated annual drug program I don’t really know what to tell you…

Alright. I can understand this fear. But mate.

Vaccines don't have long term effects. It's not something associated with vaccines. From what i know and from what ive heard doctors says, it basically doesnt really happen. The real bad effects happens on the short terms. If you don't have effects in the short terms, you're basically clear and safe every time.

"I usually start by saying, first of all, there are no vaccines that we know of that have long term side effects," she said. "So, there are vaccines that we have studied for years and years and years and years and years... when they're approved, they're not known to give long-term side effects. Where we really are concerned about side effects is especially right at the beginning there, and then typically where you see a problem, it will happen in the first couple of weeks, even with a brand new vaccine. I mean, when they're studying it, very, very, very rare to have anything coming after that time. And in fact, that's part of why the FDA wants the six months of monitoring because if you've monitored somebody for six months afterwards, really there's no biological reason that you would expect there to be any long-term concerns from the vaccine."

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/how-dr-arwady-responds-to-those-worried-about-vaccines-long-term-side-effects/2520299/

Edited August 11, 2021 by thefxbip

[Claudius t Ansuulim]

My great-grandfather lived to 102 years old. Never took a drug, no vaccines, no pills. He lived through the Spanish Flu. And every other “pandemic”. I gave him chicken pox when he was 90. He died from an adverse reaction to painkillers the hospital gave him after he broke his hip.  102 years, and it was pills that killed him.  Start as you mean to go on.

[Wunderbar]

I bet you are only allowed  to eat with a spoon.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Wunderbar

[Satans Little Helper]

Here's a silly idea: lets not conflate getting a vaxxin (mRNA or other) with speculations about the need of a booster, or a yearly vaxx shot. Those are two very different discussions.

And given the fact/result that the current vaxxines have an 8 times lower change of getting covid (delta variant) compared to unvaxxinated, I think we're still safe in a one time no booster scenario. If you want to speculate and all that, fine. But please do a better job at clarifying yourself next time.

And sure, perhaps it's best if everyone just got a onetime (2 injections) vaxx without boosters and all that. People with a weaker immune system might belong in a different scenario, but the general population should be fine. Given the 90% reduction of ending up in the hospital when people are vaxxinated (but get covid nevertheless). If they don't end up in hospital, I have no issue with one time vaxx and allowing the natural immune system to sort itself out in the future.

[logboy]

anyone wondering why boosters will be needed so quickly, i'd suggest it's because of the size of the world's population, the need to keep economies going, the lack of speed possible with giving first doses across the world. there is a world outside your own country, and it doesn't just exist on the news.

[Claudius t Ansuulim]

8 minutes ago, thefxbip said:

Alright. I can understand this fear. But mate.

Vaccines don't have long term effects. It's not something associated with vaccines. From what i know and from what ive heard doctors says, it basically doesnt really happen. The real bad effects happens on the short terms. If you don't have effects in the short terms, you're basically clear and safe every time.

"I usually start by saying, first of all, there are no vaccines that we know of that have long term side effects," she said. "So, there are vaccines that we have studied for years and years and years and years and years... when they're approved, they're not known to give long-term side effects. Where we really are concerned about side effects is especially right at the beginning there, and then typically where you see a problem, it will happen in the first couple of weeks, even with a brand new vaccine. I mean, when they're studying it, very, very, very rare to have anything coming after that time. And in fact, that's part of why the FDA wants the six months of monitoring because if you've monitored somebody for six months afterwards, really there's no biological reason that you would expect there to be any long-term concerns from the vaccine."

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/how-dr-arwady-responds-to-those-worried-about-vaccines-long-term-side-effects/2520299/

ok fair enough but we aren’t talking about a typical vaccine, this is a new drug delivery mechanism that not only hasn’t been administered previously in humans, but failed spectacularly in previous animal trials of the technology, in a way that wasn’t seen until the long term (beyond 6 months).  Antibody dependent enhancement isn’t even being evaluated by the drug companies afaik, they really should be looking for that signal if they aren’t.

[Satans Little Helper]

10 minutes ago, thefxbip said:

Alright. I can understand this fear. But mate.

Vaccines don't have long term effects. It's not something associated with vaccines. From what i know and from what ive heard doctors says, it basically doesnt really happen. The real bad effects happens on the short terms. If you don't have effects in the short terms, you're basically clear and safe every time.

"I usually start by saying, first of all, there are no vaccines that we know of that have long term side effects," she said. "So, there are vaccines that we have studied for years and years and years and years and years... when they're approved, they're not known to give long-term side effects. Where we really are concerned about side effects is especially right at the beginning there, and then typically where you see a problem, it will happen in the first couple of weeks, even with a brand new vaccine. I mean, when they're studying it, very, very, very rare to have anything coming after that time. And in fact, that's part of why the FDA wants the six months of monitoring because if you've monitored somebody for six months afterwards, really there's no biological reason that you would expect there to be any long-term concerns from the vaccine."

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/how-dr-arwady-responds-to-those-worried-about-vaccines-long-term-side-effects/2520299/

That's the medical perspective. Our friend Claudius though, has watched a bunch of Brett Weinstein video's. Brett's critique, besides the medical one is also about the impact at the "complex system" level. Which is basically the impact on the environment where this virus resides and evolves/mutates. Claudius mate, please correct me if I'm wrong.

I believe Brett has admitted he doesn't know whether or not it would have lasting negative impact. He's only speculating. But I admit I stopped following him in his anti-mRNA vids.

[ambermonk]

Just get the vaccine my dudes, if you haven't already (especially if it's free). Worst reaction I felt was a sore arm for a day or two. You're still at much greater risk of dying going unvaxxed than vaxxed, as Dcom pointed out.

[thefxbip]

In the end, like Dcom mentioned, right now  its the gamble of 4.3 millions deaths (+ long covid + more community transmission + social instability, etc) vs a couple of unfortunate serious short terms effect victims.

At this point i know which side of the gamble im taking. The consequences of Covid are far worse.

Edited August 11, 2021 by thefxbip

[Limo]

9 minutes ago, Claudius t Ansuulim said:

ok fair enough but we aren’t talking about a typical vaccine, this is a new drug delivery mechanism that not only hasn’t been administered previously in humans, but failed spectacularly in previous animal trials of the technology, in a way that wasn’t seen until the long term (beyond 6 months).  Antibody dependent enhancement isn’t even being evaluated by the drug companies afaik, they really should be looking for that signal if they aren’t.

Citation needed.

AFAIK these mRNA vaccines have been cobbled together from parts that have been developed and tested since the 1970s (mRNA: 1970s, using them as vaccines: 1990s, using those lipid thingies to deliver the vaccines: 2015-ish).

Moderna has been working on this stuff for decades. The reason they haven’t had much to show for it until now is that they bet on using this technology to treat cancer. This turned out to be a bit if a dead end as it required creating a new “vaccine” for every individual patient, which is way, way too expensive to be feasible (but technically very possible).

The reason we haven’t seen this technology used for “normal” vaccines before is that drug companies are in it to make money and a truism in the industry is that “vaccines don’t make money”.

Unless you can sell them to 7 billion people.

[Claudius t Ansuulim]

4.3 million, out of 7.9 billion.  It could be assumed that everyone has had SOME level of exposure to this pathogen, so that means roughly 99.95% of people have survived exposure. And these are the numbers you’re using to justify a global drug adminstration campaign?

[thefxbip]

@Claudius t Ansuulim my man, sure we are a bit of dickheads but we just wish you could get past this fear and get safe with a good vax, but eh if youre not down with it, what can you do? pretty sure we cant force you to change mind at this point, it would have to be from your own effort but im sure we could get along in real life. I've got real good friends and family that are afraid or wont take it. One of my best friend is unvaccinated. I love everything about him but this very fact. Hell, AFX is pretty anti vaxx and i still would love a chat with him ( on other subjects lol)

This is the internet things escalates. This is of course a massive disagreement but eh, my mom dont want the vaccine and i dont agree but i won't cancel her out of my life. 

It's just a thing like religion and politics i guess at this point. If you discuss it, it can really escalates.

I'm personally happy i got the vax. I feel safer and less dangerous to others. I strongly think that in these times of pandemic it is the most responsible thing you can do.

I'm not gonna further argue with you, it's not that much of a fertile convo at this point. If you want to discuss aphex twin ae or else that would be better.

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by thefxbip

[species8472]

43 minutes ago, Claudius t Ansuulim said:

My great-grandfather lived to 102 years old. Never took a drug, no vaccines, no pills. He lived through the Spanish Flu. And every other “pandemic”. I gave him chicken pox when he was 90. He died from an adverse reaction to painkillers the hospital gave him after he broke his hip.  102 years, and it was pills that killed him.  Start as you mean to go on.

you dumb

[Claudius t Ansuulim]

27 minutes ago, rhmilo said:

Citation needed.

AFAIK these mRNA vaccines have been cobbled together from parts that have been developed and tested since the 1970s (mRNA: 1970s, using them as vaccines: 1990s, using those lipid thingies to deliver the vaccines: 2015-ish).

Moderna has been working on this stuff for decades. The reason they haven’t had much to show for it until now is that they bet on using this technology to treat cancer. This turned out to be a bit if a dead end as it required creating a new “vaccine” for every individual patient, which is way, way too expensive to be feasible (but technically very possible).

The reason we haven’t seen this technology used for “normal” vaccines before is that drug companies are in it to make money and a truism in the industry is that “vaccines don’t make money”.

Unless you can sell them to 7 billion people.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-020-00462-y

[dcom]

35 minutes ago, Claudius t Ansuulim said:

4.3 million, out of 7.9 billion.  It could be assumed that everyone has had SOME level of exposure to this pathogen, so that means roughly 99.95% of people have survived exposure. And these are the numbers you’re using to justify a global drug adminstration campaign?

1,23 billion people have received two shots, 3,31 billion have received one - that's about 15 % and 42 % of all people (yeah, I was the one who looked up the world population wrong at first). The vaccinations have already made a huge impact, saving millions and millions of lives.

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by dcom

[zero]

19 minutes ago, thefxbip said:

but eh if youre not down with it, what can you do? pretty sure we cant force you to change mind at this point, it would have to be from your own effort but im sure we could get along in real life. I've got real good friends and family that are afraid or wont take it. One of my best friend is unvaccinated. I love everything about him but this very fact.

yeah man, this sucks. definitely causing some confusing and frustrating feelings. I too have long time friends that refuse to take it. I work with people I get along well with that still haven't gotten it yet (the classic "I'm not anti-vax, but..."). dunno what else to do really. on one hand I want to be a dick about it, but what good will that do? the only thing that I feel will push people to get vaxxed is if someone close to them gets the 'vid and dies from it. other than that, well, they'll keep justifying that, y'know, "I'm not worried about it, so..." and the rest of us will just keep facepalming, shaking our heads, and wondering how did such a large chunk of society turn into this current day mess of nonsensical and illogical thinking.

[thefxbip]

Seems to me that the whole vaccine thing comes down to fear.

What do you fear more: covid or vaccine?

There is STRONG facts that points towards covid being more dangerous but if someone is hardlocked into a fear of vaccine for various reasons, may it be fear of needles, fear of side effects, fear of big pharma dictatorship that it's difficult to change their mind as fear is something quite irrational.

 

 

 

 

[dcom]

4 minutes ago, thefxbip said:

There is STRONG facts that points towards covid being more dangerous but if someone is hardlocked into a fear of vaccine for various reasons, may it be fear of needles, fear of side effects, fear of big pharma dictatorship that it's difficult to change their mind as fear is something quite irrational.

Belief perseverance i.e. the backfire effect.

[thefxbip]

14 minutes ago, zero said:

yeah man, this sucks. definitely causing some confusing and frustrating feelings. I too have long time friends that refuse to take it. I work with people I get along well with that still haven't gotten it yet (the classic "I'm not anti-vax, but..."). dunno what else to do really. on one hand I want to be a dick about it, but what good will that do? the only thing that I feel will push people to get vaxxed is if someone close to them gets the 'vid and dies from it. other than that, well, they'll keep justifying that, y'know, "I'm not worried about it, so..." and the rest of us will just keep facepalming, shaking our heads, and wondering how did such a large chunk of society turn into this current day mess of nonsensical and illogical thinking.

Yeah man. Exactly. You cant convince people with facts it seems if they have a strong emotional bond to an idea. It can be done if it's not too bad but after a certain point, you're wasting your time and energy and you just have to deal with it and hope people will stay safe and healthy.

I had personally some fear of the vaccine, i will confess, because i got some side effects as a teen for Hepitatis B vaccine and fainted. Also fainted a few times with blood tests. So i have a kind of basic fear of needle that stayed because of that. I had to use some reasoning and stimulate the fear of covid and realize this is ok and has to be done. Still had a bit of stress on the moment tho. No too bad but still there. Like an irrational anxiety.

Luckily i didnt get into ideological or conspirational misinformation.

People are afraid. It's not that easy to unease someone else fear once it gets really strong. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by thefxbip

[chronical]

9 minutes ago, thefxbip said:

Yeah man. Exactly. You cant convince people with facts it seems if they have a strong emotional bond to an idea. It can be done if it's not too bad but after a certain point, you're wasting your time and energy and you just have to deal with it and hope people will stay safe and healthy.

I had personally some fear of the vaccine, i will confess, because i got some side effects as a teen for Hepitatis B vaccine and fainted. Also fainted a few times with blood tests. So i have a kind of basic fear of needle that stayed because of that. I had to use some reasoning and stimulate the fear of covid and realize this is ok and has to be done. Still had a bit of stress on the moment tho. No too bad but still there. Like an irrational anxiety.

Luckily i didnt get into ideological or conspirational misinformation.

People are afraid. It's not that easy to unease someone else fear once it gets really strong. 

Remember, if you die within a year it's the vaccine's fault. Even if you are run over by a car.

[beerwolf]

47 minutes ago, thefxbip said:

Seems to me that the whole vaccine thing comes down to fear.

What do you fear more: covid or vaccine?

There is STRONG facts that points towards covid being more dangerous but if someone is hardlocked into a fear of vaccine for various reasons, may it be fear of needles, fear of side effects, fear of big pharma dictatorship that it's difficult to change their mind as fear is something quite irrational.

 

 

 

 

A few times in my life I’ve come across folk who have absolute terror of needles. Once when I was young at school and we had to have the TB jab, just as now, there was a hardcore number, who went berserk with panic when we were told we would be having the treatment. I specifically remember a lot of them, (but not all) were black kids, whereas 90% of the rest of us just shrugged without a care and got on with it. There was a battle going on between teachers and these kids and this was presumably fuelled by their parents who were putting fear of God into their impressionable childrens heads. Another time when I was in hospital over night, there was some dude in the bed next to me (couldn’t see him because of the curtain) who was whimpering and screaming like a child because they had to inject him with something. That went on for literally hours. A never ending revolving team of doctors, nurses pleading with him to get jabbed. It was fucking trippy listening to him having a meltdown every time he saw the needle. In the end I was moved to another ward. That dude would rather die from whatever he was suffering with, than be spiked with a needle. Fact.

Edited August 11, 2021 by beerwolf