NOT Coronavirus COVID-19

[Satans Little Helper]

Are you sure you're not mixing up the delta boom and the omikron boom? The delta boom was (is?) quite severe indeed. It's even a bit early to consider that past. Omikron is still very much on the rise.

[thefxbip]

11 minutes ago, Satans Little Helper said:

Are you sure you're not mixing up the delta boom and the omikron boom? The delta boom was (is?) quite severe indeed. It's even a bit early to consider that past. Omikron is still very much on the rise.

Nah man. Im talking about omicron.

Massive spread here. Not even out of a wave. One week ago the hospital were crashing. Massive contagion. Massive hospitalizations. 

But every time its the same message. Just a few more weeks. We'll open everything like normal in a few weeks. 

Hahaha i mean what can i say.

Edited January 26, 2022 by thefxbip

[Satans Little Helper]

25 minutes ago, thefxbip said:

There is a certain wishful thinking short term over-optimistic flavour to the whole deal that just feels not very responsible when you look at the facts that the virus is not under control at all.

Again, over the pond Omikron is skyrocketing (UK already in decline btw). And the big thing is that it is less severe than delta. In terms of hospitalisation rate, ICU-rate and death-rate. That was also confirmed in that presentation you posted. I believe with relatively old data, btw. In europe, the expectations at the beginning of the omikron wave were way worse than what transpired. That's not an underestimation. That's an overestimation! 

PLease note that it can go both ways. Sometimes things look worse than they are. And sometimes the other way around.

Currently, in Europe though, there's this strange experience that the new covid cases are setting records, while hospitalisations/deaths move only a little. Sometimes even still on the decline. (possible because of a recent delta wave that was still going on) And that's not because of a delay. It's been like this for a couple of weeks now. Easily a month.

Omikron is a completely different animal.

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Satans Little Helper

[thefxbip]

12 minutes ago, Satans Little Helper said:

Again, over the pond Omikron is skyrocketing (UK already in decline btw). And the big thing is that it is less severe than delta. In terms of hospitalisation rate, ICU-rate and death-rate. That was also confirmed in that presentation you posted. I believe with relatively old data, btw. In europe, the expectations at the beginning of the omikron wave were way worse than what transpired. That's not an underestimation. That's an overestimation! 

PLease note that it can go both ways. Somethings things look worse than they are. And sometimes the other way around.

Currently, in Europe though, there's this strange experience that the new covid rates are setting new records, while hospitalisations/deaths move a little. Sometimes even still on the decline. (possible because of a recent delta wave that was still going on) And that's not because of a delay. It's been like this for a couple of weeks now. Easily a month.

Omikron is a completely different animal.

 

Did you miss the part where he speaks about the virus being less severe but if the rate of contagion is a lot worse you end up with a lot of deaths and hospitalizations?

It compensates for its decrease in severity by being so damn contagious. Its very misleading to think of it as just less dangerous.

I mean i dont need any other proof than december in here. Thousands and thousands of cases in a very short amount of time. No more testing available because of overflow of cases. Hospitals crashing. Health care staff burned out. People being denied health care because of that. It's really bad.

Timestamped it

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by thefxbip

[Satans Little Helper]

No, didn't miss that.

Have you noticed I'm talking about actual numbers. Not projections or models?

Again though, the vaccination rate is an important underlying factor. The US is piss poor in that aspect. That potentially changes the whole dynamic. The vax rate in Europe is simply superior. I suspect that's an important part of the difference.

(Also in South Africa btw. Not just Europe)

 

[usagi]

 

[cwmbrancity]

SARS-CoV-2 Spike Antibody

Omicron RBD Protein

Gram Level Available, Order: order_us@sinobiologicalus.com,
order_eu@sinobiologicaleu.com

sinobiological.com

[Nebraska]

9 hours ago, thefxbip said:

The most intelligent, informative and rational video ive ever seen on covid.

This is not over man.

I'm reading everywhere ''omicron is mild'' ''covid soon over'' ''lets reopen''

''virus is getting milder''

lol

The denial of reality is just insane.

Yet people are dying at quicker rate and hospitalization are on the rise and health system is crashing.

And there WILL BE more variants. Omicron has spread like crazy.

People just cant accept this is a long war we are into. Since the very beginning all is being said by politicians is ''just a few more weeks''

We need to think in terms of YEARS ahead in terms of planning and minding ourselves to battle covid.

 

 

 

[DavieAddison]

On 1/24/2022 at 11:30 PM, chenGOD said:

Neil Young respek:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/neil-young-demands-spotify-remove-music-vaccine-disinformation-1290020/

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/music-news/spotify-neil-young-joe-rogan-1235081916/

[ignatius]

6 minutes ago, DavieAddison said:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/music-news/spotify-neil-young-joe-rogan-1235081916/

they removed his music today. 

[toaoaoad]

I couldn't load that page but does it say that Neil Young's outrage had zero impact on spotify endorsing misinformation?

[toaoaoad]

And thanks for the videos @Satans Little Helper and @thefxbip,  I watched a bit, but they are long, so I'll have to come back to it another time.   I have to admit I've got a limited capacity for this stuff anymore, reading about it, following the news etc. I'm just as burnt out as anybody else. I kinda envy those who have stopped worrying about it, tho I can see the dangers of their ignorance, but it seems some people have been able to enjoy glimpses of freedom over the past two years and I've just been on edge the entire time.  That's my own shit but yeah ignorance really is bliss and I just wonder what it would be like to stop caring and if maybe now is the time.

[ignatius]

5 hours ago, toaoaoad said:

I couldn't load that page but does it say that Neil Young's outrage had zero impact on spotify endorsing misinformation?

zero. but a bunch of boomers who don't use streaming services might have noticed and asked "what's spotify? who's joe rogan?"

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by ignatius

[chenGOD]

4 hours ago, toaoaoad said:

I couldn't load that page but does it say that Neil Young's outrage had zero impact on spotify endorsing misinformation?

there are at least three threads (one, two, three) on reddit about it, and some people have cancelled their subscription. But so what if the impact is minimal? Would you rather Neil Young doesn't take a principled stand? And now he's forced spotify to come out in support of anti-vaxxer JRogan.

[toaoaoad]

3 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

 now he's forced spotify to come out in support of anti-vaxxer JRogan.

Good point, cheers. I honestly couldn't open the article, my browser kept rejecting it. I'm cynical obviously. I don't expect great change from these "evil entities" and it just seemed a bit laughable that Neil Young of all people would have an impact (boomer jokes go here) but I don't really know the whole story

Edited January 27, 2022 by toaoaoad

[ghsotword]

Neil Young was born in 1945 and the boomer generation is usually defined (e.g. in Wikipedia) as people born from 1946 to 1964. So I'd say Neil Young narrowly escaped being a boomer and belongs to the Silent Generation instead

[psn]

I think "baby boomer" refers to a more precisely defined generation than "just "boomer".

[scumtron]

23 hours ago, Satans Little Helper said:

No, didn't miss that.

Have you noticed I'm talking about actual numbers. Not projections or models?

Again though, the vaccination rate is an important underlying factor. The US is piss poor in that aspect. That potentially changes the whole dynamic. The vax rate in Europe is simply superior. I suspect that's an important part of the difference.

(Also in South Africa btw. Not just Europe)

 

This. Several European countries are reopening. The virus is more or less running free without a rise in hospitalization  and "crashing health systems". The key is of course vaccination rate, where, in Norway, over 90% have two shots, almost 90% of the 40yrs + have three shots.  

[thefxbip]

Sure some countries in Europe are doing better and opening. More than happy for them. 

But for how long? And it is not the case everywhere. I repeat it has hit USA and Canada really bad.

This massive spread will create variants. It is the same story repeating itself. Trying to get back to pre-pandemic normality without taking in consideration the fact the virus is not under control globally. Getting things mildly under-control for some time and then completely losing it, saying everything is fine and acting recklessly and having contagion peaks that create new variants.

Letting omicron just roaming around and removing mask mandates for example helping contagion...is just insane to me. Especially when we have seen variants each time progressively being able to evade vaccines AND that vaccines do wane with time.

Here two weeks ago it was fkin chaos and still there is talk about removing mask mandates in schools. I mean wth.

Edited January 27, 2022 by thefxbip

[Satans Little Helper]

56 minutes ago, thefxbip said:

Sure some countries in Europe are doing better and opening. More than happy for them. 

But for how long? And it is not the case everywhere. I repeat it has hit USA and Canada really bad.

This massive spread will create variants. It is the same story repeating itself. Trying to get back to pre-pandemic normality without taking in consideration the fact the virus is not under control globally. Getting things mildly under-control for some time and then completely losing it, saying everything is fine and acting recklessly and having contagion peaks that create new variants.

Letting omicron just roaming around and removing mask mandates for example helping contagion...is just insane to me. Especially when we have seen variants each time progressively being able to evade vaccines AND that vaccines do wane with time.

Here two weeks ago it was fkin chaos and still there is talk about removing mask mandates in schools. I mean wth.

The experience is that omikron cannot be contained. It spreads too fast. Even within a lockdown. And given that the amount of hospitalisations is manageable, societies are opening up. And it's not just a few countries, btw. The biggest problem is that lots of people can't go to work because of (mild) covid. Which, btw, has already lead to lifting restrictions for "significant" people with covid. Such that they're still able to work.

In other words, the problem has shifted from keeping the healthcare system from choking to making sure people can work to keep society running.

In case you're still wondering why. An important argument for lifting restrictions in the first place, is the necessity for kids to go to school. Now that covid is less severe, the argument to keep kids home is simply not strong enough. And with schools opening up, you're already in a situation that covid spreads like mad.

[ignatius]

[thefxbip]

1 hour ago, Satans Little Helper said:

The experience is that omikron cannot be contained. It spreads too fast. Even within a lockdown. And given that the amount of hospitalisations is manageable, societies are opening up. And it's not just a few countries, btw. The biggest problem is that lots of people can't go to work because of (mild) covid. Which, btw, has already lead to lifting restrictions for "significant" people with covid. Such that they're still able to work.

In other words, the problem has shifted from keeping the healthcare system from choking to making sure people can work to keep society running.

In case you're still wondering why. An important argument for lifting restrictions in the first place, is the necessity for kids to go to school. Now that covid is less severe, the argument to keep kids home is simply not strong enough. And with schools opening up, you're already in a situation that covid spreads like mad.

I understand this.

But still all of this does lack consideration that the virus is still gonna be around for years. Im not hearing a lot of plans for the next 5 years only short term lockdown and total ease scenarios. Yo-yo again and again.

But what i am saying is that the pre-pandemic normality is still considered the base normality when its not anymore. It's been sold everytime a lockdown ease. ''now we're back to normal finally'' You can't act post-lockdown like it's pre-pandemic, its foolish. The virus is still around.  Yes you need to open but not with pre-pandemic normality as the aim.

Opening all pubs, restaurants, clubs, have schools open without masking and little prevention like nothing happened every time a lockdown ease and act like it's 2010 is what makes no sense for me. The world changed. 

It seems like there is only two mode. Full lockdown and pre-pandemic mode. I dont know cant we figure out something in the middle? And prepare for next variants when it ease instead of acting like nothing happened and that no variants will come next?

There is a lack of long term vision, of deep restructuration plans and recognition that what normal means is not the same than 5 years ago.

Do you seriously think in winter 2022-2023 its not going be the same story all over again? recklessness and lack of preparation?

I think it will. I hope im wrong but i think it will.

Also global warming is coming. We will have double pressure to do preparation and change for long term soon. Cant keep the head in the sand forever. This obsession with what was considered normal need to stop. Its not coming back.

Edited January 27, 2022 by thefxbip

[thefxbip]

Too much energy spent on wanting to go back to pre pandemic normal instead of CREATING a new normal that takes Covid and global warming in consideration.

This pre pandemic normal is finished imo. Its living on life support at best.

[Squee]

Got my PCR test result and I'm clean even after having spent the evening with someone who turned out to be infected.

[Satans Little Helper]

12 hours ago, thefxbip said:

I understand this.

But ...

OK, I want to respond, but there's a lot to unpack here. Your post is a compilation of facts, speculation and opinion. And it's all intertwined like a plate full of spaghetti bolognese. 

Example:

Quote

But still all of this does lack consideration that the virus is still gonna be around for years. Im not hearing a lot of plans for the next 5 years only short term lockdown and total ease scenarios. Yo-yo again and again.

First the facts: you're not hearing plans for the next 5 years. OK, the explanation is pretty easy: planning suggest predictability. Or certainty. And we're simply not in a situation where you can predict how the world looks in 5 years time. Let alone plan on how to deal with it. This has nothing to do with a lack of consideration (that was speculation and or opinion on your part).

It's painfully obvious to various governments that some things are to stay for a while. (Like the climate crisis.) It was already mentioned at the first wave, I believe, by various political leaders around the globe that we were in a process where we would have to learn how to live with it (short and long term). And just as obvious was the conclusion that stuff like healthcare systems (eg. amount of available ICU) should be improved to the new situation (whatever this "situation" specifically is -> note the importance of specificity to be able to actually make a reasonable plan). But this also impacts economies and businesses. Remember the panic about the availability of face masks in those early months of the crisis? That's another component that needs to be addressed. Lets assume there are many more. 

Also note that while everyone is following the media hype, few are aware of the steps already being taken. Why? Because normal politics is boring and not clickbait-worthy! Yes, we're all clickbait sheep complaining about stuff we don't have a clue about.

So in the meantime, various countries have actually implemented plans - and in some cases executed - to localise certain high risk industries. Do you see that in the news? Perhaps. My guess, only if you know where to look. And if you do, it's easy to forget with all the other noise.

Also note that the news focusses on the stuff that bad. The good is not interesting. As it is assumed to be obvious. Nobody's interested in reading that today the traffic lights performed perfectly, right? You only read about traffic lights when something went horribly wrong. Again, just stating the obvious.

And another factor is the variance between various countries. Not every government (country) is the same. Perhaps your local government is exactly as you describe. But in that case, I can only assure you that your local government is not a good representation of all governments. In which case  this generalised "lack" wouldn't be general at all.

Other than that, we can't tell what is "normal"  in 5 years time. This was also the exact same conclusion of the video you posted earlier. It was in big bold letters. Something like "WE DON'T KNOW" or "WE CAN'T...". Or something along those lines. Finishing with a remark about not believing anyone telling you otherwise.

I hope you understand you can't just make plans on how to deal with the situation in 5 years time in a situation like that. Especially when the risk/impact of making the wrong plans is huge. As any investment will be huge. Don't forget you're talking about limited budgets. If you spend more budget on ICU capacity, you have to spend less on other parts of the budget. (schools?) Also note this stuff is highly political in the sense that there are many stakeholders and important issues. And there needs to be a reasonable equilibrium between all this "stuff". Governments are forced to move budgets from one important issue to another. And yes, that does require "deep" plans. 

Don't expect those deep plans to be published soon though. Even if those plans are currently finished. Which I doubt. It takes time. And yes, there's an argument that it requires too much time. In which case I will point to all your fellow citizens of your country with vastly different (opposing) opinions. Without those people, it's difficult to change things. 

Coming back to your "lack of consideration": often it's better to assume there's a lot of consideration at the governmental level. Unless you live in a completely corrupt country, that is. And that this sense of a lack of consideration is more a reflection of the political discourse, if you will. Which includes - as far as I'm concerned - the opinions of the general public. (Also note the impact of the media and it's publication bias: clickbait...conflict...etc)

Lastly, I know I have told you little you didn't already know.  And I suspect that your post has a strong emotional source, if you catch my drift. In that case, no explanation from me or anyone else would change that, I'm guessing. (or at least my wall of text wont) And perhaps this is more about coming to terms with the realisation that life will remain uncertain for the coming period. That's not just for governments. That also for us. Please note that governments can not just create certainty by force or magic. At least not when it comes to issues like corona or the climate. Also note that uncertain doesn't mean it can't change for the better.

 

Edited January 28, 2022 by Satans Little Helper