random harmony tips

[brian trageskin]

yeah yeah i know, i created a thread about harmony recently but this is different. 

my intention with this thread is to create a place where people can share random tips for chords, progressions, or even melodies. no theory here, no analysis. so no need to be a jazz jedi. no talk about tuning systems here, or psychoacoustics, or music production. only practical tips for harmony/melody. just a bunch of random suggestions. of course we can discuss the theory behind this or that a little bit on the side but that's not my purpose here. and yes, this thread was inspired by @LimpyLoo's defunct tip du jour threads - which i never read btw, i didn't know the first thing about harmony back then. anyway here's a completely random tip for beginners: 

are you sick of playing the same shitty voicing for a minor chord over and over? would you like to sound more sophisticated and modern? here's a very simple voicing that doesn't require any mental gymnastics to learn: 

in C minor, instead of playing your usual C-Eb-G or C-Eb-G-Bb (Cm7), play this chord: C-G-Ab-Bb

if you're interested in the theory of this, it's the notes 1-5-b6-b7 from the minor scale. memorize this voicing so you can use it in any key. 

btw i associate this sound with nu metal for some reason - deftones maybe? idk i just feel like i've heard this sound a lot as a teen. anyway that's all for now, bye.

[Wunderbar]

Try a ii-V-I

[ArtificialDisco]

Hmm, that sounds like a very strange voicing for C minor to me. Usually the presence of b6 means you've moved away from the tonic, i.e. you're on a different chord. As a rootless F minor voicing it makes perfect sense, and even playing up and down the C minor scale over it sounds a little like playing in F dorian.

Which brings me to my tip: Ditch that grimy old natural minor and use the dorian instead.

[Freak of the week]

harmony subforum pls

[brian trageskin]

21 minutes ago, ArtificialDisco said:

Hmm, that sounds like a very strange voicing for C minor to me. Usually the presence of b6 means you've moved away from the tonic, i.e. you're on a different chord. As a rootless F minor voicing it makes perfect sense, and even playing up and down the C minor scale over it sounds a little like playing in F dorian.

Which brings me to my tip: Ditch that grimy old natural minor and use the dorian instead.

yeah that's totally a rootless Fm, or Abmaj9 with the root inverted. i'm very used to hearing it treated like a normal minor chord (minus the b3), maybe that explains why it doesn't sound like a rootless voicing to me. i don't know, i just love that sound (btw if you're a mad lad and want to sound like allan holdsworth, put the G as the top note - an octave higher). while i'm at it, i forgot to say it's meant to be played in the 3rd octave (if you play it in a higher register it sounds like shit). 

Edited February 12, 2022 by brian trageskin

[brian trageskin]

38 minutes ago, brian trageskin said:

yeah that's totally a rootless Fm, or Abmaj9 with the root inverted. 

btw that's more or less what deftones does in be quiet and drive (far away): in the key of Db major, they alternate between Db and Bbm (to put it simply - counting the voice as part of the harmony btw). so I-vi-I-vi. 

enough about theory though. my chord sounds dope, end of story 

[thefxbip]

Natural Minor scale without using the seventh note (leading tone ex: G in A natural minor) gives you a deeper contemplative dramatic vibe because youre not using the major chord vibe of the G natural ( that can sometime give you cheesy pop harmonies) and you avoid the the more ''classical'' vibe from the Harmonic Minor that doesnt work well in electronic.

Extremely good for electronic and also usable in any other context.

Probably a mode/scale name for it but i dont know it.

[thefxbip]

Every chord is usable. Context/relationship is everything.

Do not only think in triads and roman harmony (like C chord, G chord etc.) also think in added notes over a fondamental. Ex: C as fundamental/lowest note in the chord + add notes at various interval on top for free harmony. Every single combination is useful. 

Experiment with that and you'll have develop a feeling for chord colors in full 12 tones.

 

 

[brian trageskin]

6 minutes ago, thefxbip said:

Natural Minor scale without using the seventh note (leading tone ex: G in A natural minor) gives you a deeper contemplative dramatic vibe because youre not using the major chord vibe of the G natural ( that can sometime give you cheesy pop harmonies) and you avoid the the more ''classical'' vibe from the Harmonic Minor that doesnt work well in electronic.

Extremely good for electronic and also usable in any other context.

Probably a mode/scale name for it but i dont know it.

not sure what you mean exactly. do you mean skip the VII chord or remove the b7 (the note) from the scale?

[thefxbip]

1 minute ago, brian trageskin said:

not sure what you mean exactly. do you mean skip the VII chord or remove the b7 (the note) from the scale?

Remove the VII note from the scale. Dont use it at all.

Try it out you'll see what i mean.

Edited February 12, 2022 by thefxbip

[zlemflolia]

what are these weird letters

[brian trageskin]

24 minutes ago, thefxbip said:

Remove the VII note from the scale. Dont use it at all.

Try it out you'll see what i mean.

yeah that becomes a hexatonic scale. i was talking about this very concept with a watmmer recently, removing any one note from any 7-note scale and make it hexatonic (except the tonic, duh). that gives you a scale with only 2 triads. i did this with the dorian b2 scale the other day, removed the b7 and it sounded dope. there's this bassist i love who uses major and minor hexatonics extensively and comes up with these super cool melodic patterns. fun stuff.

Edited February 12, 2022 by brian trageskin

[thefxbip]

3 minutes ago, brian trageskin said:

yeah that becomes a hexatonic scale. i was talking about this very concept with a watmmer recently, removing any note from any 7-note scale and make it hexatonic (except the tonic, duh). that gives you a scale with only 2 triads. i did this with the dorian b2 scale the other day, removed the b7 and it sounded dope. there's this bassist i love who uses major and minor hexatonics extensively and comes up with these super cool melodic patterns. fun stuff.

From Wiki:

''The major hexatonic scale is made from a major scale and removing the seventh note, e.g., C D E F G A C.^[1] It can also be made from superimposing mutually exclusive triads, e.g., C E G and D F A.^[2]

Similarly, the minor hexatonic scale is made from a minor scale and removing the sixth note, e.g., C D E♭ F G B♭ C.^[1]''

 

Yeah, so its some form of hexatonic scale but not the classic major minor ones it seems (minor hexatonic removes 6th note, major one does remove the 7th but its in major)

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by thefxbip

[thefxbip]

Oh a cool thing is to fix certain notes over many octave to create a scale. Took that trick from a Stravinsky interview.

Like have C, E,F, G sharp on bottom octave and then, on the octave above have C sharp, D, F sharp, A (and maybe even have a E flat and B another octave above) and make melodies with that.

Split and space the various notes of the scale(or chord) youre inventing on many octaves and fix them there instead of having them behave the same way on every octave.

Edited February 12, 2022 by thefxbip

[thefxbip]

When improvising a melody upon a chord, have a note in mind that is outside of the chord and use it as a pivot note to make the new chord to improvise into.

 

Repeat each time you switch chord. That way you're always thinking about the chord you are using NOW and the NEXT chord ahead as well, at any one moment, at all time. That way you have 2 chords locked at all time and the switches become seemless.

Ex: ( Simple Tonic-dominant  progression )you play a melody in C minor upon C, Eb, G and you have Ab in mind as additional note to switch chords, as a pivot note. After that you go from Ab with Ab, B , D and additional note C as a pivot to come back to C chord.

It is really cool trick both in normal scales or twelve tones.

[brian trageskin]

@fxbipyeah i know your scale is not minor hex, i just wanted to mention a musician who uses major and minor hex melodically because i was talking about hexatonics in general. 

[thefxbip]

https://musicstudent101.com/67-hexatonic-scales.html

Interesting list there.

[brian trageskin]

@fxbip btw i didn't even read the wiki lines you posted but now that i did, their definition of major hex doesn't even fit the one i learned from the bassist i mentioned. the way he plays major hex is by removing the 4th, not the 7th. he does remove the 6th for minor hex though.

Edited February 12, 2022 by brian trageskin

[ignatius]

i just use spell check on my chords bro. 

[brian trageskin]

11 minutes ago, thefxbip said:

https://musicstudent101.com/67-hexatonic-scales.html

Interesting list there.

not a single mention of the major hex i just talked about. weird  anyway that's how the dude uses it and it sounds lush

[ArtificialDisco]

14 hours ago, thefxbip said:

Oh a cool thing is to fix certain notes over many octave to create a scale. Took that trick from a Stravinsky interview.

Like have C, E,F, G sharp on bottom octave and then, on the octave above have C sharp, D, F sharp, A (and maybe even have a E flat and B another octave above) and make melodies with that.

Split and space the various notes of the scale(or chord) youre inventing on many octaves and fix them there instead of having them behave the same way on every octave.

Was that the interview where he talks about the new chord he made for the Rite of Spring? Which is basically E major with a Eb major dominant on top. 

[brian trageskin]

for beginners: 

you like the sound of major or minor pentatonic (you know, the 5-note scale that sounds chinese) but the only trick you know to get that sound is the knuckle roll on the black keys. here's a very simple trick to generate lovely pentatonic progressions using only the black keys: 

play the chord F# A# D# (F#4 or F#3). now move each note to the next black key available, downwards. so the next chords are D# G# C#, then C# F# A# - A# D# G# - G# C# F#. now improvise by going upwards or downwards with these chords. change directions at times, don't just go up or down the whole scale. you'll get better results if you think melodically. you'll get even better results if your articulation is good - which isn't the case since you suck at piano - don't pretend that you don't, i'm inside your head right now, i know your dirty little secrets.

if playing these is difficult for you, i hope you're using your 2 hands. if not, you're doing it the hard way + it's gonna sound terrible. use your 2 hands. one hand plays 1 note, the other hand plays the other 2. 

[user]

I couldn't resist, sorry. Great thread and thanks for the reminder re Limpy Loo's tip du jour, had forgotten about that thread.

[chim]

[luke viia]

Rename thread to "lo-fi hip hop: the hard way" plz.

I realize this thread started with "no music production" but I'm gonna ignore that. 

I use variations of this trick sometimes and it's always fun. there are lots of directions you can go from where this gent leaves off:

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by luke viia