Russia is now bombing Ukraine

[zlemflolia]

35 minutes ago, ARPA said:

Interesting read:

https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/ivan-krastev-on-russia-s-invasion-of-ukraine-putin-lives-in-historic-analogies-and-metaphors-a-1d043090-1111-4829-be90-c20fd5786288
 

>And that his decision to retake the position of president from Medvedev, which hadn’t initially been part of the plan, was a reaction to that, because he didn’t want to meet the same end as Gadhafi, executed by his own people

https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/6604

>Military assistance: Libyan contacts have consistently said they do not want overt foreign military assistance in toppling Qadhafi. "This is something we must do for ourselves," is the message. Depending on how events in/around Tripoli play out going forward, there is space for covert military assistance to the opposition (including arms shipments); the fighting should be done by the Libyans themselves, who are clear in emphasizing their willingness to do so.

 

[zazen]

3 hours ago, dcom said:

... so I'll just bugger off.

I appreciate your viewpoint being in this thread because you're in Finland, and your country has had to deal with Russias shit for a long time

[Satans Little Helper]

3 hours ago, ilqx hermolia xpli said:

im not a troll im discussing the war, its you guys who keep talking about me.  yes, you included.  ive asked you all to stop lots of times and even chen has but youre all just so desperate for gossip in your boring lives, just as boring as mine, that you cant help but comment.  so for the love of god keep the thread on topic from this point on thank you very much

I'm not having an issue with you, but you're currently posting excessively. Perhaps it's time to sit back and relax a bit? 

[cern]

MAP UPDATE 22 MARS 
 

 

[ARPA]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/16/russia-rich-wealthy-western-elites-thomas-piketty

[EdamAnchorman]

5 hours ago, ilqx hermolia xpli said:

im not a troll im discussing the war, its you guys who keep talking about me.  yes, you included.  ive asked you all to stop lots of times and even chen has but youre all just so desperate for gossip in your boring lives, just as boring as mine, that you cant help but comment.  so for the love of god keep the thread on topic from this point on thank you very much

You're shouting so loudly about the nazis.  Yes, there are probably nazis there as Chen has pointed out, but why are you shouting so loudly about them with all the other horrible stuff going on?

We all get that nazis are bad, but it's like the house is completely on fire and you're screaming that someone left the oven on.  Yeah you want the firemen to go in and put out the fire but not unless they can run through the flames and make sure that the pesky oven is off as well.

[chenGOD]

1 hour ago, ARPA said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/16/russia-rich-wealthy-western-elites-thomas-piketty

This is simply wrong, at least from a Canadian perspective. It's not the elite preventing the freezing of Russian oligarchs' assets in Canada, it is the enforcement capacity of all Canadian authorities with respect to sanctions. While the regulations do target a specific set of Russian actors, freezing orders must be made by the Governor General (currently Mary Simon - hardly one of the elite), and the process is convoluted. Enforcement authorities here have limited capacity to initiate investigations into sanctions violations. 

Quote

To implement this type of measure, it would be sufficient for western countries to finally set up an international financial registry (also known as a “global financial registry” or GFR) that would keep track of who owns what in the various countries.

While a publicly accessible beneficial ownership registry for corporations is an admirable goal (and Canada is working on developing that at a federal and provincial level), as well as a land ownership transparency registry (British Columbia has one), at a global level, who would be responsible for maintaining the registry? Who would verify the information is accurate and up-to-date? I know Piketty describes a number of private central repositories - but this would be funded by governments. Technically possible is a far stretch from implementable.

To be clear - undoubtedly wealthy western elites would be impacted by this - but in Canada at least, they are not the ones preventing this from happening. Little disappointed in Piketty on this one.

[thefxbip]

Wannabe internet communist spreading neo-fascist russian agenda and propaganda.

You gotta see it to believe it.

Cant even ignore them now everyone is answering them. You see this is what happens when trolls are tolerated for too long. They hijack the debate and the discussion and there is no discussion anymore. This is a hermolia thread now. They control the discussion with disinformation.

It's easy when you give yourself a license to infinite lying you dont have to worry about truth or being decent, you have the upper hand of power for the simple reason you don't give a fuck.

Attention seeking contrarian dont care about debate or information they just swallow all the air until there is nothing left to breath and everyone else leaves in disgust.

Dcom is probably the most intelligent poster in here and gives interesting and pertinent info and he's not gonna post anymore because mods tolerate this fool.

In a debate were the screaming madlad spreading disinfo is tolerated expect the level of conversation to go down the drain very quickly because you enable them to control the whole situation.

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by thefxbip

[dcom]

20 minutes ago, thefxbip said:

You see this is what happens when trolls are tolerated for too long. They hijack the debate and the discussion and there is no discussion anymore. This is a hermolia thread now.

This is what I meant with you have to nip it in the bud. You're mirroring the anecdote exactly. But what do I know, I've been on the internet for only three decades, so I haven't really seen anything yet, and I struggle to understand the power dynamics of these newfangled technologically mediated social structures and constructs. /S

Edited March 22, 2022 by dcom

[cichlisuite]

12 hours ago, chenGOD said:

Leading up to 2014-15, you had an awful government in power in Ukraine who had made friendly overtures to Russia, and then you had an illegitimate referendum in Crimea (after months and months of soft occupation by the Russians). Obama was nearing the end of his term as President, and the big European powers wanted nothing to with the situation in a meaningful sense, because of internal cluster-fuckery (UK), over-reliance on Russian natural gas (Germany), and general malaise (rest of Europe). No one wanted to start another war.

Well yes, but I know for a fact that US was actually involved in Ukraine as was the UK in the time when Putin installed his puppet leaders. They had their intelligence assets inside Ukraine (they still do), they all knew and were up to date what was going on there. Which leads me to my pre-conclusion that they were opportunistic and waiting for their moment as they always do. Selling weapons is a lucrative business. Perhaps they underestimated Putin's resolve, and thought that Putin's meddling could prepare ground for a "peaceful" NATO expansion, and the plan backfired. European Union, unfortunately, showed itself unable to form a coherent and decisive foreign policy, with each major member playing their own foreign policy game, and is able to step together only when US shows its interest, which further leads me to conclude that a disconcerted EU is in US (and Russia and China's) interest. So, the clusterfuck is most definitely part of the design.

[thefxbip]

It's like in life. If you have a discussion with someone, you have to assume they have at minimal decent intention to be truthful and accept they are wrong when showed to be.

If someone hasnt showed good will and humility in their attitude toward that, they are just some sort of social vampire feeding on others energy and getting a kick out of controlling situations. Contrarian are not there to discuss, they are there to fuck with you and  get a kick out of you. They will not bulge but you will bulge and devolve into emotional reaction because that's their whole game.

Edited March 22, 2022 by thefxbip

[chenGOD]

20 minutes ago, thefxbip said:

Wannabe internet communist spreading neo-fascist russian agenda and propaganda.

You gotta see it to believe it.

Cant even ignore them now everyone is answering them. You see this is what happens when trolls are tolerated for too long. They hijack the debate and the discussion and there is no discussion anymore. This is a hermolia thread now. They control the discussion with disinformation.

It's easy when you give yourself a license to infinite lying you dont have to worry about truth or being decent, you have the upper hand of power for the simple reason you don't give a fuck.

Attention seeking contrarian dont care about debate or information they just swallow all the air until there is nothing left to breath and everyone else leaves in disgust.

Dcom is probably the most intelligent poster in here and gives interesting and pertinent info and he's not gonna post anymore because mods tolerate this fool.

In a debate were the screaming madlad spreading disinfo is tolerated expect the level of conversation to go down the drain very quickly because you enable them to control the whole situation.

 

Why are you still talking about him? Start posting information that you think is not disinformation and contributes to the debate?

Everyone keeps talking about him - just stop?

7 minutes ago, dcom said:

But what do I know, I've been on the internet for only three decades

Yes - you are also old like I am. We all remember this:

 

If this forum is able to be derailed by one poster who posts contrarian shit, we're in sad shape.

[thefxbip]

A man screaming like a madlad in a room will disrupt the room no matter if you shut your ears down. And if your neighbour does. And next guy. Even if we all block him every new person coming in here will get the troll bite.

Edited March 22, 2022 by thefxbip

[chenGOD]

3 minutes ago, cichlisuite said:

They had their intelligence assets inside Ukraine (they still do), they all knew and were up to date what was going on there

Knowing what is going on and having the means to do something about it without violating international law are two different things.

 

5 minutes ago, cichlisuite said:

European Union, unfortunately, showed itself unable to form a coherent and decisive foreign policy, with each major member playing their own foreign policy game, and is able to step together only when US shows its interest, which further leads me to conclude that a disconcerted EU is in US (and Russia and China's) interest. So, the clusterfuck is most definitely part of the design.

EU has only itself to blame for that - the bureaucracy and technocracy on display at the EU parliament is staggering, and this comes from a Canadian, whose foreign minster recently said - "we are good at convening". A disconcerted EU is definitely in the interest of Russia and China, but not for the US - they want smooth trade and markets - at least most of the time, until they decide to elect nationalist dimbulbs like Trump.

[thefxbip]

But you see this is the internet. It's why some much BS has happened through internet and disinfo. Internet basically gives you a license to lie to infinity until someone moderates your ass.

Edited March 22, 2022 by thefxbip

[chenGOD]

2 minutes ago, thefxbip said:

A man screaming like a madlad in a room will disrupt the room no matter if you shut your ears down. And if your neighbour does. And next guy. Even if we all block him every new person coming in here will get the troll bite.

In the last 20 minutes you've posted three times about him and nothing about the war. Do try and stay on topic. And please use the ignore function on him? That's what it's there for.

[thefxbip]

I have ignored him. But see how many replies are replies to his trolling? lol

I guess i am free to leave. But i did get good info in here from other posters, that helped me understand the situation.

I just think it sucks to let a troll completely hi-jack forums and threads without any moderation. Have you ever been on a discord where trolls are let loose and free to room around?

 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by thefxbip

[cichlisuite]

2 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

Knowing what is going on and having the means to do something about it without violating international law are two different things.

It's not like that has stopped anyone before you just need a nice pretext that generates a lot of emotions.

3 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

EU has only itself to blame for that - the bureaucracy and technocracy on display at the EU parliament is staggering, and this comes from a Canadian, whose foreign minster recently said - "we are good at convening". A disconcerted EU is definitely in the interest of Russia and China, but not for the US - they want smooth trade and markets - at least most of the time, until they decide to elect nationalist dimbulbs like Trump.

Certainly. But the main pillar of EU's existence is its post-ww2 EEC, and the EU is basically EEC with further consolidated laws to facilitate smooth trade. Coherent foreign policy was always coordinated (*cough* sprung *cough*) by US interests. The US also has individual agreements with individual EU countries, which do not always work in the interests of the EU as a whole, and if EU began working as a coherent entity, it would render some of the US co-dependent support roles moot. So, a certain level of EU divide is definitely in US' interest.

[thefxbip]

Anyone knows what happened to Crimea once it got annexed?

[ignatius]

 

32 minutes ago, thefxbip said:

Anyone knows what happened to Crimea once it got annexed?

shake machines still not fixed

[Satans Little Helper]

47 minutes ago, cichlisuite said:

It's not like that has stopped anyone before you just need a nice pretext that generates a lot of emotions.

Certainly. But the main pillar of EU's existence is its post-ww2 EEC, and the EU is basically EEC with further consolidated laws to facilitate smooth trade. Coherent foreign policy was always coordinated (*cough* sprung *cough*) by US interests. The US also has individual agreements with individual EU countries, which do not always work in the interests of the EU as a whole, and if EU began working as a coherent entity, it would render some of the US co-dependent support roles moot. So, a certain level of EU divide is definitely in US' interest.

I think it's fair to say that the EU has changed since Trump/Brexit. And what you're describing is essentially based on the period before. Today, there is much more unity. The France/Germany axis is far more stable (without the UK). And thanks to Trump it became clear it's not safe to trust on the US running around to clean all the shit happening in the world. Perhaps it doesn't look like that to you, but there's been definitely a change since Trump/Brexit.

Bit of extra reporting on the EU current actions regarding Ukraine

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/22/eu-aims-to-set-up-trust-fund-for-reconstruction-of-democratic-ukraine

[thefxbip]

23 minutes ago, ignatius said:

 

shake machines still not fixed

Didnt USA used depleted uranium weaponry in Irak?

I remember reading about the absolute nightmarish effects they had on the population.

Edited March 22, 2022 by thefxbip

[chenGOD]

49 minutes ago, thefxbip said:

Anyone knows what happened to Crimea once it got annexed?

From wiki:

Quote

Within days of the signing of the accession treaty, the process of integrating Crimea into the Russian federation began: in March the Russian ruble went into official circulation^[67] and clocks were moved forward to Moscow time,^[68] in April a new revision of the Russian Constitution was officially released with the Republic of Crimea and the federal city of Sevastopol included in the list of federal subjects of the Russian Federation,^[69] and in June the Russian ruble became the only form of legal tender.^[70] In July 2015, Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev stated that Crimea had been fully integrated into Russia.^[71]

 We should note that this is de facto and not de jure.

We should also note that after the annexation, Ukraine shut off the main source of water to Crimea, which is total BS. As a result, water rationing seems to be pretty standard: https://euromaidanpress.com/2020/12/17/water-severely-rationed-in-crimean-cities-after-all-attempts-to-solve-crisis-fail/ It seems Russia is unable to help, despite their "technological prowess".

Here is also a good place to counter disinfo: https://uacrisis.org/en/hwag

[ignatius]

38 minutes ago, thefxbip said:

Didnt USA used depleted uranium weaponry in Irak?

I remember reading about the absolute nightmarish effects they had on the population.

yes. USA littered the desert with depleted uranium rounds from all sorts of guns.. mostly from the A10 plane and the fancy gun on the front of helicopters. those type of rounds cut through armor like it's butter.  if you google "uranium depleted rounds in iraq effects on civilians" you'll find long term effects to iraqis from the rounds. birth defects and a whole range of cancers. 

but those weren't bombs. the things they're talking about now are bombs. 'tactical' nuke packs for the battlefield. it's nuts. 

edit: i'll add.. a friend of mine drove a tank and said that in UN bosnia/herzegovina intervention and said when the uranium depleted rounds were used on enemy vehicles they'd eventually have to rope off w/caution tape the destroyed vehicle so everyone would be aware of radiation contamination. he also said.. and this is pretty gross.. that when those rounds hit a tank what happens is it punches through both sides of the tank. entry hole then exit hole and sometimes under some conditions it creates so much pressure inside the tank it sucks the flesh off whoever is inside the tank and leaves it in a pile outside the exit hole. 

Edited March 22, 2022 by ignatius

[thefxbip]

I wish the science community would step up and stop building this shit...

They need to introduce more self regulation and penalties on the science and engineering of war machines and other ultra-destructive technology...

If the governments are corrupt they should step up and act.

Shouldnt be a normal thing that your job is to build weapons capable of annihilating millions of lives in an instant. I don't know how the scientific community just let it happen. There is a tendency to just think all knowledge is neutral but it is not when it comes to weaponry. 

This is one of the biggest elephant in the room. 

There is a big lack of ethics in science when it comes to engineering these things.

Building weaponry should be on the same list as using chemistry to make hard drug for money in my book.

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by thefxbip