bandcamp acquired by epic games?!

[cern]

Bandcamp was just a nice music player long time ago... Not even recommendations on the front page. 

Now its gonna be like you need extra golden account, pay more to get more bullshit.. We all know how its gonna end. 
 

[purlieu]

Yeah, I gotta admit I preferred it when it was just a site to put your music on to sell or download. I don't like the editorial stuff (even if one of my albums sold well because of it). 

[chim]

Before Epic acquired Artstation, there were fewer, wider categories to put your stuff in (from traditional 2D to environmental or character design). Now there are 63 and every addition represents an industry specialization in video game or film graphics. There is no category for fine art or other classical genres, but there are categories for web design, hard surface 3D props, video game level design and even a separate section for the art of Halo Infinite. There are more contests, job offerings and the various tutorial/brush/print shop ads are bigger. There are no further community tools except facebook style likes & comments. 

BC has been great for its indie freedom & longevity (anybody remember Putfile? lol), even though the user interface is kinda wonky and the streaming part has lagged behind considerably. It's been practically unusable on mobile devices (don't even mention the stupid app). There are examples of Epic having a hands-off approach to some of their acquisitions, but my fear is that BC in it's current state is just too weird to live on in this shit timeline.

[YangYing]

we must unite all artists and release only fecal goregrind until epic has no option but to let bc be

[TubularCorporation]

2 hours ago, MIXL2 said:

we must unite all artists and release only fecal goregrind until epic has no option but to let bc be

I am unironically OK with this idea.

[dcom]

Quote

In an unexpected move, video game giant Epic Games recently bought Bandcamp. But what does this mean for the beloved platform and the wider music industry? On Wednesday, March 2nd, a corner of Twitter went into meltdown when Bandcamp announced that it was, in the words of CEO Ethan Diamond, "joining Epic Games." In the eyes of many, the last bastion of independent music was merging with the creators of Fortnite. Music industry heads unleashed a flurry of tweets, some furious, others funny. While some took aim at the obtuse language used in the posts (Epic Games' described it as "Bandcamp will become part of Epic Games"), others cracked jokes about producers making character skins. Prior to the merger, Bandcamp had gone through two rounds of funding as a private company and has, according to Diamond, been profitable since 2012. But in a tech world defined by a constant stream of mergers and acquisitions, some felt it was only a matter of time.

'You want to protect something you love': What does Epic Games buying Bandcamp mean for DIY music? (Resident Advisor)

[iococoi]

On 3/6/2022 at 12:34 AM, MIXL2 said:

we must unite all artists and release only fecal goregrind until epic has no option but to let bc be

[kuniklo]

Quote

"Generally, I think we ought to think bigger," he said. "Bandcamp has been a great service, but I don't think the future of music support is likely to mimic the record store interactions Bandcamp was modeled after in the early '10s [...] A crisis of imagination and fluency in available options for musicians and labels is a significantly bigger challenge for music than Bandcamp disappearing, IMO.

This is something I've been thinking about a lot lately too. As much as I like Bandcamp most of the records I buy on there sell in very low numbers, far below what any musician could make a living off of.

So if it's not really making people enough money to support themselves maybe it's worth taking a step back and asking if there's some other way we can encourage creativity and help musicians find an audience without trying to mimic an ownership model that makes much less sense in an always online world and doesn't put control of music in the hands of tech megacorps that just see it as a checkbox in their strategy documents?

[exitonly]

3 hours ago, kuniklo said:

This is something I've been thinking about a lot lately too. As much as I like Bandcamp most of the records I buy on there sell in very low numbers, far below what any musician could make a living off of.

So if it's not really making people enough money to support themselves maybe it's worth taking a step back and asking if there's some other way we can encourage creativity and help musicians find an audience without trying to mimic an ownership model that makes much less sense in an always online world and doesn't put control of music in the hands of tech megacorps that just see it as a checkbox in their strategy documents?

sooooo subscriptions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

i hate subscriptions 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

also, just because my 10 purchase isn’t going g to change a person’s life doesn’t mean that transaction shouldn’t be possible. yeah, 90% of people aren’t going to make a living selling music on bandcamp, but give them the shot at it anyway 

[kuniklo]

21 minutes ago, nikisoko said:

sooooo subscriptions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

i hate subscriptions 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

also, just because my 10 purchase isn’t going g to change a person’s life doesn’t mean that transaction shouldn’t be possible. yeah, 90% of people aren’t going to make a living selling music on bandcamp, but give them the shot at it anyway 

Sure I’d like it to be possible for people to go on selling and owning music too. 
 

But if the stuff in my library is anything to go by that figure would be closer to 99 percent that wouldn’t be able to pay rent off music sales. 

[thefxbip]

Quite a good amount of my favorite music does not sell well on bandcamp.

Heck some top notch Gerald Donald trx have like 15 sells.

But thats why bandcamp is so cool, you can find all kind of ultra niche and weird independent stuff whether its commercially viable or not. 99% of the time, this stuff will never sell much anyway, in any context.

[thefxbip]

6 hours ago, kuniklo said:

This is something I've been thinking about a lot lately too. As much as I like Bandcamp most of the records I buy on there sell in very low numbers, far below what any musician could make a living off of.

So if it's not really making people enough money to support themselves maybe it's worth taking a step back and asking if there's some other way we can encourage creativity and help musicians find an audience without trying to mimic an ownership model that makes much less sense in an always online world and doesn't put control of music in the hands of tech megacorps that just see it as a checkbox in their strategy documents?

The point of some of these music releases is not and was never to be viable in a commercial way or to provide for a living. But just to be available. To give it a platform.

All those niche genras and releases will pretty much NEVER appeal to a wide audience. 99% will always stay in the shadows. No matter what you do. No matter your business model, there is only so many people interested in it.

Bandcamp is cool because it makes it possible for those to exist and be available to those who are interested.

Edited March 17, 2022 by thefxbip

[purlieu]

It's true that there's music released now that sells poorly that would have made people a living 20+ years ago - simply because there's next to no commercial backing for more experimental stuff these days, you don't really see a modern equivalent of Tangerine Dream or FSOL or The Orb making the top 10 anymore, especially to the extent that it used to happen - but agreed that the majority of stuff on Bandcamp is the modern equivalent of the DIY tape labels from the '80s or the small CDr labels of the early '00s, who often made things in runs of no more than 50 anyway.

Any decrease in sales has really come from a saturation of the market. I remember when I first started properly releasing music in the early '00s, and outside of specialised music forums, I very rarely found anybody online making electronic or experimental music. I noticed that dramatically changing over the following few years, and there do seem to be far more people doing it now, almost certainly due to the ease of availability of free or pirated software and the broadband speeds to download it easily. Similarly, faster internet speeds allow for things to be released as albums rather than tracks; back when I was a regular poster on ElectronicScene, maybe only a third of the regular posters ever bothered doing things as albums, just happy to pop a few tracks online that they'd made, whereas now things seem to be much more album- and purchase-oriented. So there's just way more stuff out there. I used to be able to buy every album by every musician friend I had; these days that would bankrupt me.

[exitonly]

2 hours ago, purlieu said:

It's true that there's music released now that sells poorly that would have made people a living 20+ years ago - simply because there's next to no commercial backing for more experimental stuff these days, you don't really see a modern equivalent of Tangerine Dream or FSOL or The Orb making the top 10 anymore, especially to the extent that it used to happen - but agreed that the majority of stuff on Bandcamp is the modern equivalent of the DIY tape labels from the '80s or the small CDr labels of the early '00s, who often made things in runs of no more than 50 anyway.

Any decrease in sales has really come from a saturation of the market. I remember when I first started properly releasing music in the early '00s, and outside of specialised music forums, I very rarely found anybody online making electronic or experimental music. I noticed that dramatically changing over the following few years, and there do seem to be far more people doing it now, almost certainly due to the ease of availability of free or pirated software and the broadband speeds to download it easily. Similarly, faster internet speeds allow for things to be released as albums rather than tracks; back when I was a regular poster on ElectronicScene, maybe only a third of the regular posters ever bothered doing things as albums, just happy to pop a few tracks online that they'd made, whereas now things seem to be much more album- and purchase-oriented. So there's just way more stuff out there. I used to be able to buy every album by every musician friend I had; these days that would bankrupt me.

yeah exactly. If you have a system where everyone buying music is also selling music, we're just kind of shuffling bits of money around in a circle. For the record, I'd love for there to be a way for musicians to more easily make a full time living off of their music. But I'm also not going to go around and 'subscribe' to 100 different artists and pay them $10 a month, its just not feasible. But I dont have any kind of music subscription service, I buy albums. A lot of those are from bandcamp.

[kuniklo]

8 hours ago, thefxbip said:

The point of some of these music releases is not and was never to be viable in a commercial way or to provide for a living. But just to be available. To give it a platform.

All those niche genras and releases will pretty much NEVER appeal to a wide audience. 99% will always stay in the shadows. No matter what you do. No matter your business model, there is only so many people interested in it.

Bandcamp is cool because it makes it possible for those to exist and be available to those who are interested.

But this is more just a property of everything being online isn't it? You could also just post them up on a personal website or dropbox folder or something. If you're going to tie yourself to a platform like BC and be at the mercy of their corporate ambitions then you should get more than a landing page and download button in return.

I like BC as it is but it could do a lot more to help artists find an audience.

[thefxbip]

5 hours ago, kuniklo said:

But this is more just a property of everything being online isn't it? You could also just post them up on a personal website or dropbox folder or something. If you're going to tie yourself to a platform like BC and be at the mercy of their corporate ambitions then you should get more than a landing page and download button in return.

I like BC as it is but it could do a lot more to help artists find an audience.

I think the bandcamp collection especially, makes it better than personal website or dropbox. Everything in one place.

I agree there is probably more it could do for people to find an audience tho. But there is so much music hahaha

[thefxbip]

9 hours ago, purlieu said:

It's true that there's music released now that sells poorly that would have made people a living 20+ years ago - simply because there's next to no commercial backing for more experimental stuff these days, you don't really see a modern equivalent of Tangerine Dream or FSOL or The Orb making the top 10 anymore, especially to the extent that it used to happen - but agreed that the majority of stuff on Bandcamp is the modern equivalent of the DIY tape labels from the '80s or the small CDr labels of the early '00s, who often made things in runs of no more than 50 anyway.

Any decrease in sales has really come from a saturation of the market. I remember when I first started properly releasing music in the early '00s, and outside of specialised music forums, I very rarely found anybody online making electronic or experimental music. I noticed that dramatically changing over the following few years, and there do seem to be far more people doing it now, almost certainly due to the ease of availability of free or pirated software and the broadband speeds to download it easily. Similarly, faster internet speeds allow for things to be released as albums rather than tracks; back when I was a regular poster on ElectronicScene, maybe only a third of the regular posters ever bothered doing things as albums, just happy to pop a few tracks online that they'd made, whereas now things seem to be much more album- and purchase-oriented. So there's just way more stuff out there. I used to be able to buy every album by every musician friend I had; these days that would bankrupt me.

Yeah i mean major labels DID take chances once in a while at very wild things. Even if you look at Jazz musicians, there was some wild stuff being accepted and promoted by major.

Would any major release stuff as wild as the long ass free jazz fusion jams of Bitches Brew these days?

You're lucky if you can get a 5 min pop song haha

Risk ratio went from a little to none at all. I think this influence the whole ecosystem down the way and less people are exposed to it.

Edited March 17, 2022 by thefxbip

[thefxbip]

I think a lot of people just dont buy music anymore. Streams or youtube and thats it. 

Ive seen acts at raves pulling hundred of people at their shows having 5 sells of their tracks. A lot of people just dont give a single damn about buying the music, they just want to consume it easily like for TV series and movies streams. Spotify is just netflix for music.

The problem is that actors, directors and all the film crew gets paid PRIOR to diffusion. So even if everything is just streams and pirates it doesn't affect the fact they were all paid for it.

Musicians don't. So this whole streaming industry mechanism doesnt work with the music process of production as well as the one in cinema and TV.

Imagine if the crew would only get paid by stream percentage hahaha 

Edited March 17, 2022 by thefxbip

[kuniklo]

Yeah aside from the people I've met through forums and mailing lists like this I don't know anybody that buys music anymore. Unfortunately it's become very niche. 

[ignatius]

4 minutes ago, kuniklo said:

Yeah aside from the people I've met through forums and mailing lists like this I don't know anybody that buys music anymore. Unfortunately it's become very niche. 

i have no idea what young people do. seems some get into some things and buy vinyl. etc.  i don't know.. really. streaming etc is probably what happens most. lot's of passive listeners.  people must be into music still but seems people would rather stare at their phones than listen to stuff. 

content content content. 

but then there's all kinds of people selling vinyl on line on bandcamp and other places.. releasing and selling.. i have no idea who makes what kind of money. mumble rap and shit like that i guess and bad pop and bad country pop will always be popular. 

the last few guests on SNL were uh.. interesting.. i think there's like 5 dua lipa's.  i don't know how people like jimmy fallon keep up with new artists and are able to have conversations w/them when they're guests on his show.  have seen his show a couple times w/musical guests and had no idea who the person was. hadn't heard of them before. and here's jimmy chatting away about their "amazing new album" which is usually just bad. 

[purlieu]

There are certainly online scenes where kids are buying stuff, the vaporwave tape scene remains fucking mental in particular. New releases every day, some people buying every single one. People owning about ten different copies of Birth of a New Day from its various reissues. Fuck knows where they get the money from. I was in HMV in Sheffield the other day and it was actually pretty packed, everyone from teenagers to old blokes, browsing both vinyl and CDs. 

But yeah, there are four categories of people buying music these days:
Properly obsessive music fans, the likes of us;
Younger fans who stream but buy the coloured vinyl releases by their one or two favourite artists (hence the £55 4LP Taylor Swift albums);
Older casual fans who haven't kept up with technology and pick up driving compilations and the new Adele album when they see them in the supermarket;
Super-rich boomers who post on superdeluxeedition.com

The remaining 90% of the population are happy to stream, because £10 a month is cheaper than buying and easier than pirating. 

[kuniklo]

To get back the original topic I guess until it's clear where Epic is going to take BC I'll be buying music from Boomkat. They can be annoyingly hipster at times but they do dig up a lot of interesting records and I think it's important to preserve their independent curatorial voice.

[purlieu]

So, how many Bandcamp alternatives do we think are currently in development? Must be a few people who saw this as an opportunity to make something new.

[mcbpete]

I say we bring back download sites like this:

[iococoi]

2nd update since the merger..