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Linear vs Non-Linear way of making music


cern
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re: Sean, it’s not a mystery, and he is just messing around probably.

music composition is 3 things:

1 your brain

2 devices of abstract to concrete translation

3 definition.

Different methods of composition use the three above pillars in different ratios.

music is always linear, because time is linear.
 

Maybe you are just programming devices to generate music for you, and programming the music to be off-grid. That’s maybe 20%(1),70%(2),10%(3)

Or maybe you use field recordings and edit them with effects. That’s maybe 20%/10%/70%
 

and singer song writer is maybe 60/10/30

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On 3/18/2022 at 2:14 AM, cern said:

People like Sean from Autechre always seem to bash on people that making music in a Linear way.
It is extremely limited compared to making music In a non-Linear way according to him.

I wonder.. In what way is it more limited? Linear-music making is also created with sounds/noise made in a amount of time right? Do you unlock more time if you get it done in Non-Linear way?

What way is the best way to sequence music ? 

How do you sequence your music if not the traditional way?

Peace 
 

Linear.jpeg

So this is just my philosophy on this. But how you choose to approach a track greatly influences the end product.

If I make it with mostly midi and parameter automation, then it's more likely going to come out as VERY melody driven. 

HOWEVER my prefered way of making music these days is instead to make lots of cool sound design. Find bits I like the most. Lump them together. And FOCUS on what composition types would allow me to BEST USE the sound design. The two types of ways of making music sound almost like another artist made them

And this also applies to choosing to start a song with a chord progression, or a bassline, or the drums. They all feel like different styles when I listen to them. 

For example, a song that is built around vocals means the instruments are there  to strengthen the vocals. There;s a reason why guitar solos are a thing in rock music. So the guitarist can do his ownthing without needing to support the vocalist. 

If you make a song with no vocals, suddenly that opens up a TON of things you can't really do with vocals. Now any instrument can be the 'focus' instrument where everything is built around. Same thing applies to music with drums, and without. It's much easier to make lush ambient music when you don't have to conform to drums, which in turn frees up the ambient music to do more things.

 

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On 4/10/2022 at 7:07 AM, sheatheman said:

https://williamfields.bandcamp.com/album/fieldsos
 

Anyone heard this? Deep learning genre-generated music. Honestly pretty crazy. 

it's my fav of his releases. it's when i can really hear the algorithms making choices. i like the story of it too. program in the style. press go. come back when it's done. 

 

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On 4/10/2022 at 4:07 PM, sheatheman said:

https://williamfields.bandcamp.com/album/fieldsos
 

Anyone heard this? Deep learning genre-generated music. Honestly pretty crazy. 

No deep-learning in Bill’s stuff. Super clever algorithms at work though, and « curated » with fantastic taste. I love FieldsOS but I have a soft spot for Fluidity.

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14 hours ago, Summon Dot E X E said:

That sounds really interesting. I'll have to check it out.

>name tracks after a variety of genres
>it's all IDM
What did William mean by this?

I skipped through the album. Didn't listen to 24hrs of material yet. Pretty interesting stuff. I would rather listen to an edited down version of the best parts, as even a single, hour-long track is difficult to consume, let alone 24 of them. I get that it was a radio show, though.

I will put it on while I'm working to get a better feel for it.

Pretty amazing that it's at all listenable.

Soon we will have the musical version of DALL·E. Then how will human musicians differentiate themselves?

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39 minutes ago, logakght said:

cool. sounds like something you can develop. probably a bunch of tracks in that patch. 

On 4/15/2022 at 10:57 AM, Summon Dot E X E said:

>name tracks after a variety of genres
>it's all IDM
What did William mean by this?

I skipped through the album. Didn't listen to 24hrs of material yet. Pretty interesting stuff. I would rather listen to an edited down version of the best parts, as even a single, hour-long track is difficult to consume, let alone 24 of them. I get that it was a radio show, though.

I will put it on while I'm working to get a better feel for it.

Pretty amazing that it's at all listenable.

Soon we will have the musical version of DALL·E. Then how will human musicians differentiate themselves?

i put it on and just let it go. i forget which hour i'm listening to. i haven't listened in a while though. i remember i'd listen at work and a lot of it would catch my ear and i'd take a peak at my ipod to see which theme or whatever. i found that's a good way to experience it for me. 

i think him saying "it's all IDM" is a way of saying it's all experimental music. 

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On 4/15/2022 at 2:59 AM, Nil said:

No deep-learning in Bill’s stuff. Super clever algorithms at work though, and « curated » with fantastic taste. I love FieldsOS but I have a soft spot for Fluidity.

I found something else which does use ML to produce audio. Here is something they did by training a model on The Beatles:

They also did this, which is more impressive I think:

https://futurism.com/mind-melting-ai-frank-sinatra-toxic-britney-spears

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I realize this adds very little to this thread but I've achieved what I think is non random non linear by simply using multiple sequencers.

A good example is MI Grids. Its a drum sequencer with 3 outs: Kick, snare, and hat. Its got a bunch of patterns programmed into it that you can sweep between. So take the kick and snare and route them to a kick and snare. But then take your hat and route it to a different sequencer's clock. Now this second sequencer has a non linear non random deterministic clock. Feed that to a bassline or something. As you mutate grids, the patterns for your kicks and snares and bassline will mutate and evolve. 

Now multiple this concept to even more sequencers and logic modules.

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11 minutes ago, acid1 said:

I realize this adds very little to this thread but I've achieved what I think is non random non linear by simply using multiple sequencers.

A good example is MI Grids. Its a drum sequencer with 3 outs: Kick, snare, and hat. Its got a bunch of patterns programmed into it that you can sweep between. So take the kick and snare and route them to a kick and snare. But then take your hat and route it to a different sequencer's clock. Now this second sequencer has a non linear non random deterministic clock. Feed that to a bassline or something. As you mutate grids, the patterns for your kicks and snares and bassline will mutate and evolve. 

Now multiple this concept to even more sequencers and logic modules.

Sam and Bob started with arpeggiators into arpeggiators and this is pretty similar. 

Successful complexity can come from controlling a few simple variables in an intelligent way. 

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The thing with Max MSP is that it's good for making a patch but only for that except if u create your own effects and use it with Ableton.
I really enjoy the non-linear style but it is best for the experimental approach. 
It is difficult to have "flow" when u going full random.. 

The best way would be something in between because I prefer some sort of structure.For example: SunVox: There you have your MaxMSP-patching style but also a tracker style sequencer with effect commands and a nice timeline.

Max for live is also a nice combination but Abletons interface is awful. 

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7 minutes ago, cern said:

The thing with Max MSP is that it's good for making a patch but only for that except if u create your own effects and use it with Ableton.
I really enjoy the non-linear style but it is best for the experimental approach. 
It is difficult to have "flow" when u going full random.. 

The best way would be something in between because I prefer some sort of structure.For example: SunVox: There you have your MaxMSP-patching style but also a tracker style sequencer with effect commands and a nice timeline.

Max for live is also a nice combination but Abletons interface is awful. 

yaeh. I mostly use Max to toy around and indeed randomize stuff that I want to sound "complex", but mostly I record stuff and try to sequence it to create a more narrated product. Tho Max is a lot of fun

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On 4/18/2022 at 5:16 PM, acid1 said:

I realize this adds very little to this thread but I've achieved what I think is non random non linear by simply using multiple sequencers.

A good example is MI Grids. Its a drum sequencer with 3 outs: Kick, snare, and hat. Its got a bunch of patterns programmed into it that you can sweep between. So take the kick and snare and route them to a kick and snare. But then take your hat and route it to a different sequencer's clock. Now this second sequencer has a non linear non random deterministic clock. Feed that to a bassline or something. As you mutate grids, the patterns for your kicks and snares and bassline will mutate and evolve. 

Now multiple this concept to even more sequencers and logic modules.

I've never fed it into a clock, but I've had interesting results by having multiple sequencers with different step lengths so they repeat at different points and it takes a very long time for the entire thing to repeat. One sequencer could control the gate, another the note, another some CV for some other modulation like filter frequency.

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12 hours ago, cern said:

The best way would be something in between because I prefer some sort of structure.

Bitwig. Crazy flexible and nice to look at, the yoga pants of DAWs IMO

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On 4/19/2022 at 11:04 PM, cern said:

Max for live is also a nice combination but Abletons interface is awful. 

Hmmmm….

let me read that again…

…what?

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4 hours ago, sheatheman said:

Hmmmm….

let me read that again…

…what?

Sorry my English is not so good. 

Max is a program, Ableton is also a program. Do you understand this? 
You don't need to use Max as standalone..  You can use Max inside of Ableton Live. Do you understand this?

What I don't like is the layout/graphic/interface whatever you call it in Ableton: Piano roll, sequencer layout, effect panel etc.. 

If you still don't understand me then I suggest you stop quoting me. 

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