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How should we name it now?


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15 hours ago, President Squidward said:

"idm is dad rock now", said website that reviews very little and mostly gives it poor ratings

idm is such an unfortunate name for music that's just experimental electronic and techno and has more styles of electronic used in it's production. I think because of the name it's given it really has a lot of artists being straight up ignored.

pitchfork is the most trusted voice in music" : r/TheStrokes

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22 hours ago, dcom said:

It had its moments, especially in the early days. I also concur that it was just a mailing list, although a lot of the artists we discussed have become IDM canon, if there is such a thing. Pantheon, maybe. I'll just narcistically refer to a post where I go as far back as the list itself (although the archives seem to be gone) to tell you what I think about it.

Therefore:

  Reveal hidden contents

Here's the actual post I wrote in 2008 on the list - yeah, I have the IDM archives stored.

------------------------------------------------------------------

  Hullo IDMites

  I'll weigh in here, since I haven't participated in ages. Reader beware=

[email protected] wrote:

> I personally have always told my friends that IDM stands for inteligent=
> dance music. This opens it up to what I think it is and moves a
> listenner into an easier position when defining it.
>
  What I nowadays find distasteful is the actual classification of IDM
as somehow "intelligent"; since as humans we tend to think of things
through dichotomies, and since every action has an equal, but opposite
reaction, there should be something called along the lines of Stupid
Dance Music, how would you characterise that without offending someone
and not being a blatantly elitist git?

  The list, as I recall, was set up to counter the surge of "brainless"
UK rave/hardcore onslaught, thump-thump-nosebleed stuff (to paraphrase a
classic post on the list that ended up on the sleeve of AiII). The same
thread/sleeve sports the question "why is so much attention given to
Warp's (recent) past?", and that was (before) 1995. So this sort of
navel-gazing has been going on since the beginning of the list.

  To me, IDM used to be a musical genre (somewhere before the turn of
the millennium), but throughout the years, it has become clear that
besides being this mailing list, it's simply a framework of
musical/cultural eclecticism allowing people to pick and choose
non-mainstream (mainly) electronic music they like, and use IDM as a
label to make it sound fancy and different. I used to be quite elitist
(and most probably I still am) about the music I love, so believe me, I
know what I'm talking about (if you'll check the IDM archives, you'll
probably find some of my first posts from around 1993 or so).

  But yes, there have been numerous discussions on the meaning of IDM,
its status as a genre, mailing-list etc., and there's no definitive
outcome, and probably will never be, so the subject should just be
dropped, there's no end to it.

  Personally, I think IDM should be used as a name as-is, not as an
acronym with an expansion; the expanded version has too many
interpretations and semantic/historic baggage.

On 9 Jul 2008, at 03:31, "Sim David" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> So yeah, it seems kind of weird and a bit sad that the list is mostly
> stuck talking about one particular strand of nineties electronic music
> rather than discussing, embracing, arguing about, comparing or getting
> bored with any of the range of newer stuff that's out there.
>
  That's the I part for you. Since IDM is such a semantically loaded
moniker for these things, nowadays it's easier to discuss and argue
about the semantics rather than about the music, whether it matches the
expectations set by the earlier, canonicalised examples of the music
placed under the umbrella of IDM.

> (By the by, for more dubstep that might appeal to IDM fans, the Geiom
> album is well worth a look. Melodies and bleeps meet bass and
> atmospherics, quite chilled, very nice. And the Subtle Audio
> compilation is worth checking on the leftfield dnb front. DJ support
> from Richard D James, can't be bad...)

  I think that for any long-time IDM fan, *step (for dub-, break-,
chill- or whatever sub-genre of step you like to think of) is really a
good match. I was a bit of a latecomer to dubstep, but when I warmed up
to it, I did in a big way. There's tons of extremely interesting stuff
out there, from iTAL tEK's crisp, clear production to broody, menacing
mayhem by Scanone, with lots of crossover sound by Point B and the likes
to absolute burners by Noiz, Exicision, Innasekt etc.

From: [email protected]

> i have to admit, i totally don't understand why people still cling to
> this idea of autechre/aphex/squarepusher/BoC era IDM.
>
> Sure, nostalgia is nice, we all have lots of good memories, but it=20
> seems kinda the anithesis of IDM which i was always interested in
> because it was pushing the boundaries of electronic music, doing
> something new and different, new textures, rhythms, structures. Well
> most of those releases are all like 14 years old now, and i feel its
> kinda dadtronica now.
>
  Although it's rather trite in this context, Those who cannot remember
the past are condemned to repeat it (Santayana); I have found that to
appreciate and understand anything with more depth, you'll need to be
familiar with it's history. There's no (quantifiable) progress unless
you have something to compare the new things to. Although I understand
that this is not what you mean, discussing the classics is as relevant
as discussing the avant-garde, because in-depth knowledge and the
ability to reflect upon the technological and musical progress is never
a bad thing. (I did warn you about the elitism, didn't I?)

> why aren't we talking about all the new exciting electronic music=20
> being produced these days? Theres a lot of different strands, from
> dubstep to the instrumental electronic hip hop stuff, 8bit, noise
> beats, 2step. It may not be IDM, but i think the idea behind them all
> is pretty much the same as people doing IDM in that early ninties era
> - pushing things out, trying new things.
>
  First of all, discussing music is discussing art; it's very hard to do
without resorting to wishy-washy allegories, stream-of-consciousness
blabbing, or comparisons, juxtapositions or oppositions. Then, there's
the problem of defining what is what; category theory is hard, prototype
theory just a bit easier. So staying within the boundaries of what we
know, e.g. classic, canonicalised examples of IDM, makes discussion
easier. I'm not saying that this is a good thing, it's just easier,
because most of us are not verbally equipped to go in to lengthy
conversations on the musicological merits of electronic music, melody,
rhythm, timbre, etc. (I'm really off-base here, so I'll refrain.)

  But I'd love to see fresh discussions instead of just new
release/event announcements.

  Like I stated above, I think that IDM is what you think it is. It's
very personal, like any individual taste, and with a lofty moniker to
boot, so it's appealing to us as a niche of freedom in a commercialised,
branded, increasingly monocultural world.

  And why are we having a meta-discussion about discussing new stuff
instead of actually doing it?

> at a glance through my music library, i would pick out stuff like:
>
  [list removed for brevity]

  Loads of good stuff there, very *step-oriented with some dubby techno
and neo-classical detroit thrown in. I've been into a lot of the same
sort of sound, with the addition of more wonky electro/breaks, hard but
subtle techno, plenty of classical music, etc. Here's a list of artists
included in my recent record orders (in no particular order):

  Exicision, Noiz, Rakoon, Komonazmuk, Blackmass Plastics, Vaccine,
Reso, Vincent de Wit, Bas Mooy, Matt Green, D Formed, Si Begg, Luka
Baumann, Function, Meat Beat Manifesto, iTAL tEK, Andrea Parker, Sync
24, Matt Whitehead, ADJ, Junq, Scanone, Al Tourettes, TRG, Zen Militia,
Bionics, Randomer, Go Hiyama, DJ Pepo, Joton, Dynamo, James Ruskin,
Cane, Exium, Aaron Spectre, mANASyT, B12, Claro Intelecto, Move D, Lone
Wolf, Reeko, Oscar Mulero, Dimitri Andreas...

 

 

Do you have the "IDM TEENZ" post?

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Also I'd like to add that I do like the term IDM since I do consider it to be more intelligent—music made by intelligent people for intelligent people. I bet that the only reason people hate it es because Aphex Twin said it was silly or something. 

Edited by logakght
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2 hours ago, logakght said:

Also I'd like to add that I do like the term IDM since I do consider it to be more intelligent—music made by intelligent people for intelligent people. I bet that the only reason people hate it es because Aphex Twin said it was silly or something. 

i've met plenty of people who are into IDM who are morons though. [shrug]

 

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On 6/13/2022 at 2:54 PM, Enthusiast said:

IDM was a mailing list. And a really bad one.

i met a few cool people on it though. we shared tracks we'd made and stuff. once em411 came to life it was immediately more fun to be there and i met tons of people i'm still friends with. [ty bogdan]

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1 hour ago, sidewinder said:

AI-DM

Yeah this is kinda how I would interpret the "intelligent" in idm now. Not intelligent like "music for intelligent people", the common contentious interpretation, but rather as if the music itself is intelligent in the sense of "intelligent life forms", especially considering how much of it now uses generative processes etc.

 But yeah I still dislike the label either way. I dropped "idm" into a sentence the other day and the person didn't know what it was, and I immediately backtracked with "well it's a stupid term..." and was reluctant to even explain it lol, having to go into the history of the term and explain that most artists branded as such reject it :facepalm:

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/15/2022 at 11:40 PM, toaoaoad said:

Yeah this is kinda how I would interpret the "intelligent" in idm now. Not intelligent like "music for intelligent people", the common contentious interpretation, but rather as if the music itself is intelligent in the sense of "intelligent life forms", especially considering how much of it now uses generative processes etc.

 But yeah I still dislike the label either way. I dropped "idm" into a sentence the other day and the person didn't know what it was, and I immediately backtracked with "well it's a stupid term..." and was reluctant to even explain it lol, having to go into the history of the term and explain that most artists branded as such reject it :facepalm:

I never use it in casual conversation because it is so cringey to try to explain. I just say I listen to electronic music mostly. It's also more accurate because I think like half of the music I listen to is ambient. Then it's maybe 25% "IDM" and the other 25% is various genres from old disco hits to dub to p-funk to drone metal and noise.

I usually don't say I listen to ambient in casual conversation either because the usual next question is something like "it's that new age music right, like whale songs and shit?" :facepalm:

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when AI came out on Warp in 1993 it was all about electronic music that you wern't supposed to dance to - the message printed on the CD, "are you sitting comfortably?" was supposed to suggest to people that even though this was electronic music with beats, you could listen to it without being on a dancefloor filled with people - this was music you could appreciate in its own right, like classical music, something you'd sit down and listen to.

is there an established genre based on this concept in 2022? or do people still think that music with electronic sounds must be dance music?

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17 minutes ago, Dragon said:

is there an established genre based on this concept in 2022? or do people still think that music with electronic sounds must be dance music?

Well, there's ambient, chill-out, psydub, synthwave, vaporwave and so on. Lots of electronic music just for listening.

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If IDM is dad rock then what does that make dad rock? Skiffle?

 

IDM has long gone past the stage of being unfashionable and cringey and right now its at the stage of being a long dead subgenre that young producers are being influenced by somewhat devoid of its original context.

Usually it just means lots of busy twitchy hi hat patterns and the odd snare rush.

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We should definitely change the name because if I tell someone I listen to IDM the pronunciation in Norwegian is the same as the English pronunciation of EDM. I had some troubles recently, and I'm sure the guy still thinks I'm into Kygo and Swedish House Mafia. Not that IDM listening is something you go around flaunting anyway, my own fault. 

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