Divorce

[zazen]

re: your soon to be ex moving back in for a few days

embrace the awkwardness. If you both end up in the kitchen at the same time and its awkward, just breathe in the awkwardness and swim in it. Make small talk about the toaster taking too long, revell in the small talk, dont feel bad about having to mumble inconsequential things. Dont worry about awkward situations, it will pass

[Satans Little Helper]

Sorry to hear about the divorce.

One thing that struck me about your previous post was the "deep spiritual connection" part. While I can understand this signifies strong feelings and emotions, the fact you also said "she didn't give a sh$t" gives me a bunch of red flags. I'd be weary to not project too many of those "deep spiritual connections" on her, for it looks like you two don't see eye to eye on that. At least, not at this point in time. 

I have no idea of the history you two have. It is just that if I look at my personal mistakes in that area, I know I can see and feel things in a way such that it feels like it is mutual, while in reality it just isn't. And it always pains to wake up to that idea.

Like ignatius says, better to keep it business-like. Even more important given you still have feelings for her. The more your feelings are different to hers, the harder you will push her away when you push them onto her, I guess.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Satans Little Helper

[zero]

it's been mentioned several times already in the thread, but good to re-iterate this again:

you need to focus on getting yourself to a better place mentally, and try and stop thinking about the past that you shared with this person. I know it is incredibly difficult to do this. so called emotional "baggage" is called that for a reason - it weighs you down, keeps you from freeing yourself from whatever it is you're hoping to move on from.

keep focusing on helping yourself at this point in time. there are many methods a person can take to get to a point where clear, calm thinking becomes easier to get to, instead of the scatterbrained worried thoughts constantly racing through your head. go for a walk daily. talk to someone IRL on a human level. close your eyes and try and think about absolutely nothing for awhile. try and look at the situation from a bird's eye view. all these things will help. and of course, time. think about a year from now. you will have moved on, and your life will be entirely different than it is right now.

[lyst]

1 hour ago, zazen said:

re: your soon to be ex moving back in for a few days

embrace the awkwardness. If you both end up in the kitchen at the same time and its awkward, just breathe in the awkwardness and swim in it. Make small talk about the toaster taking too long, revell in the small talk, dont feel bad about having to mumble inconsequential things. Dont worry about awkward situations, it will pass

I'm not looking forward to it.   I'm just sick to my stomach about it at this point.  Why wouldn't she just go get a hotel room or stay with a friend?

 

1 hour ago, Satans Little Helper said:

Sorry to hear about the divorce.

One thing that struck me about your previous post was the "deep spiritual connection" part. While I can understand this signifies strong feelings and emotions, the fact you also said "she didn't give a sh$t" gives me a bunch of red flags. I'd be weary to not project too many of those "deep spiritual connections" on her, for it looks like you two don't see eye to eye on that. At least, not at this point in time. 

I have no idea of the history you two have. It is just that if I look at my personal mistakes in that area, I know I can see and feel things in a way such that it feels like it is mutual, while in reality it just isn't. And it always pains to wake up to that idea.

Like ignatius says, better to keep it business-like. Even more important given you still have feelings for her. The more your feelings are different to hers, the harder you will push her away when you push them onto her, I guess.

You bring up a lot of good points.  She did semi-recently agree that we do have a very deep connection -- BUT, that doesn't change the fact that it could be completely severed for her right now.  Which I think it is.  She said the last time she was here she felt absolutely nothing.  So I have to come to terms with that.

& yea, just about everything i've read has said it's important you don't push your feelings on the significant other.  If i'm still feeling the same way I always have, and she doesn't, trying to make her feel that way or guilting her to try to get her to feel that way will do the exact opposite of what I want.  I think i am going to leave out one letter though where she wrote that she loves me forever, that I am the one, etc.  I think it was right prior to getting engaged.  Just to remind her.

 

26 minutes ago, zero said:

it's been mentioned several times already in the thread, but good to re-iterate this again:

you need to focus on getting yourself to a better place mentally, and try and stop thinking about the past that you shared with this person. I know it is incredibly difficult to do this. so called emotional "baggage" is called that for a reason - it weighs you down, keeps you from freeing yourself from whatever it is you're hoping to move on from.

keep focusing on helping yourself at this point in time. there are many methods a person can take to get to a point where clear, calm thinking becomes easier to get to, instead of the scatterbrained worried thoughts constantly racing through your head. go for a walk daily. talk to someone IRL on a human level. close your eyes and try and think about absolutely nothing for awhile. try and look at the situation from a bird's eye view. all these things will help. and of course, time. think about a year from now. you will have moved on, and your life will be entirely different than it is right now.

I've found that days where my health is well and im feeling good doing all of this is a lot easier.  The days where I feel like shit and chronic health issues are flaming up, everything comes crashing down.  The emotional pain + the physical pain can be too much to bear for me.  These are the times i'm considering just ending things, because not only am i losing everything I love in this life (wife/bestfriend,house, etc), i'm also too sick to function, which puts fear in me that I could lose this job.  At this level it's like what the fuck is the point?

Edited December 20, 2022 by lyst

[Milwaukeeeee]

Fuck, I'm pretty sure the world was really a much better place not so long ago. Probably this is the worst time in terms of relationships, so unpredictable and bad right now, the reason probably porn and social media, and lack of integrity plus many women living in fairytales on their minds, and wanting many things and not being able to bond and being loyal, they are usually the ones that break up more.

Anyways good luck, remember that some of the worst things that could happen has already happened, discover what are you capable of doing now, and the things you are experiencing at the moment they could be probably of great value in some future. Focus on your goals and pasions more now

The nigga Eckhart Tolle could bring some kind of aid also

 

[user]

12 minutes ago, lyst said:

& yea, just about everything i've read has said it's important you don't push your feelings on the significant other.  If i'm still feeling the same way I always have, and she doesn't, trying to make her feel that way or guilting her to try to get her to feel that way will do the exact opposite of what I want.  I think i am going to leave out one letter though where she wrote that she loves me forever, that I am the one, etc.  I think it was right prior to getting engaged.  Just to remind her.

 

Try to resist the urge to do this. She's gonna resent you for it.

[lyst]

Just now, user said:

 

Try to resist the urge to do this. She's gonna resent you for it.

Lol man you guys aren't letting me do anything I want to.  It is indeed very delusional to think that leaving that letter out will do anything to help me.  She already knows the promises she's made and everything she's said.  

Literally my only real chance at anything is to just act like i'm doing amazing, be nice and respectful.  There's always that .0001% chance she changes her mind.

[Alcofribas]

37 minutes ago, lyst said:

Why wouldn't she just go get a hotel room or stay with a friend?

Best not to even entertain questions like this. I recommend withdrawing from the temptation to analyze her intentions. 
 

I also recommend against leaving out the letter or any other tactics to convince her to change her mind. 
 

if you are hanging on to some chance that she may reverse her decision, two things to consider: 1. She’s likely not going to be tempted by appeals to the past. She wants something different now, so any chance at all that you’ll get back together would have to come from something different between you. 2. If you do get back together both of you will have to deal with this rift between you which is a lot of emotional baggage that could absolutely sink the relationship later on. 
 

imo best to just consider this a done deal, it’s already happening, don’t hold on to the past. Again, idk you or your specifics but this is my advise from having gone through it and knowing many others who have. I’ve literally never heard anyone say they wanted a divorce but then changed their mind bc their spouse pointed out some old letter or other thing from the past. 

[lyst]

18 minutes ago, Alcofribas said:

Best not to even entertain questions like this. I recommend withdrawing from the temptation to analyze her intentions. 
 

I also recommend against leaving out the letter or any other tactics to convince her to change her mind. 
 

if you are hanging on to some chance that she may reverse her decision, two things to consider: 1. She’s likely not going to be tempted by appeals to the past. She wants something different now, so any chance at all that you’ll get back together would have to come from something different between you. 2. If you do get back together both of you will have to deal with this rift between you which is a lot of emotional baggage that could absolutely sink the relationship later on. 
 

imo best to just consider this a done deal, it’s already happening, don’t hold on to the past. Again, idk you or your specifics but this is my advise from having gone through it and knowing many others who have. I’ve literally never heard anyone say they wanted a divorce but then changed their mind bc their spouse pointed out some old letter or other thing from the past. 

I get it man. Marriages do have the ability to go through rough patches, get saved from divorce, get better - but the most important factor to any of that is both parties working on it.  And right now it's only me that wants it.  So yea I'm not going to try to woo her, the flowers / presents / letters are not going to work at this point. 

The fact is though to me it will not be a "done deal" until the papers are signed and the divorce is final.  It's not humanly possible for me to squash all hope on this.  Like I said above I can't change how my heart feels.  The only thing I can do is try to be as realistic as possible, and try to protect myself as much as possible.

[zazen]

On 12/18/2022 at 12:52 AM, lyst said:

She just texted me today and said she has to move back in for a few days, which sounds like it's going to be a few days of hell.  We both work from home most of the time so we'll have to be around each other all day. 

This to me seems like quite sortof game-playing behaviour. If it was me I'd be looking for a way to not get involved in the game, e.g. go and stay somewhere else

Quote

I'm not going to go stay somewhere else though for these days, i need to remain at home - num1 i have my home office, num2 I just don't trust her anymore.  Could come back and the locks will be changed or all my shit is gone.

Is there someone else you trust who you could get to be in the house in your place? Or who could check on the house once a day or something make sure its not been cleared out. Then you go somewhere else for a few days?

Home office is just a laptop really, right?

 

tbh whats worked for me in situations like this is getting the fuck away from them and never seeing them again, and keeping communication to an absolute minimum. you gotta move on

Edited December 20, 2022 by zazen

[zazen]

1 hour ago, lyst said:

Lyst I like that you are talkign this through with a bunch of us forum strangers and have the self awareness to post that meme

And you are doing a lot of soul-baring here and I appreciate thats difficult

Its good to think and write about whats happening because writing helps us think. and its really easy to trick oneself in these situations.

 

[chim]

Wait. Why the living fuck would you want to "win" her back at this point, considering the way she's been handling this so far? Women let go mentally loong before they do anything concrete to break up a relationship. She feels nothing and does nothing to ease your part in the situation. Nobody's "letting" you do this Lifetime simp crap because your mind is racing and you're coming up with all the wrong ideas. If anything, please allow yourself some self-respect in this mess, it will help your healing. 

+1 on zazen's advice to run in the opposite direction, stay away and work from a public library if that's what it takes. It helps,

I've done many agonizing mistakes in previous breakups, top one was keeping the log-in cookie to an ex's Facebook account so I could see everybody she was dating & screwing over Messenger. I did not start to heal before I deleted all that and threw our "deep shared spiritual connection" to the winds. It gets better than that, way better. 

Edited December 20, 2022 by chim

[Alcofribas]

I spent a long time - indeed, an embarrassingly long time - hanging on to my marriage. I so wish I could go back in time and tell myself to gtfo so much sooner than I actually did. 
 

There’s an inertia that’s very easy to give into, the gravity of just doing the thing you’ve been doing, staying still, resisting the change. Once I let myself go the route of change it happened pretty quickly that I felt myself moving in the right direction, finally. 

[lyst]

2 hours ago, zazen said:

This to me seems like quite sortof game-playing behaviour. If it was me I'd be looking for a way to not get involved in the game, e.g. go and stay somewhere else

Is there someone else you trust who you could get to be in the house in your place? Or who could check on the house once a day or something make sure its not been cleared out. Then you go somewhere else for a few days?

Home office is just a laptop really, right?

 

tbh whats worked for me in situations like this is getting the fuck away from them and never seeing them again, and keeping communication to an absolute minimum. you gotta move on

 

2 hours ago, chim said:

Wait. Why the living fuck would you want to "win" her back at this point, considering the way she's been handling this so far? Women let go mentally loong before they do anything concrete to break up a relationship. She feels nothing and does nothing to ease your part in the situation. Nobody's "letting" you do this Lifetime simp crap because your mind is racing and you're coming up with all the wrong ideas. If anything, please allow yourself some self-respect in this mess, it will help your healing. 

+1 on zazen's advice to run in the opposite direction, stay away and work from a public library if that's what it takes. It helps,

I've done many agonizing mistakes in previous breakups, top one was keeping the log-in cookie to an ex's Facebook account so I could see everybody she was dating & screwing over Messenger. I did not start to heal before I deleted all that and threw our "deep shared spiritual connection" to the winds. It gets better than that, way better. 

 

So right now is a crucial time, the way things are going as far as divorce might be the easiest way humanly possible to do it.  She said she'd be down for everyone keeping their own investments, just sell the house, and then DONE.  But we have to sit down and agree on these things.  Get it into some kind of writing, and then get it off to a lawyer.  I think i need to be around these couple days that she's here so that we can finally sit down and discuss these things and hash them out.  

ALSO.  I love my house, i want to spend every second I can in it until it's sold.  I'm not going to leave it just because she wants to be here for a couple of days.  

 

I'll have the rest of my life to get the fuck away from her and never see her again, but I think right now seeing her is important for many reasons.  Getting the divorce figured out and getting true closure being the biggest two.

 

1 hour ago, Alcofribas said:

I spent a long time - indeed, an embarrassingly long time - hanging on to my marriage. I so wish I could go back in time and tell myself to gtfo so much sooner than I actually did. 
 

There’s an inertia that’s very easy to give into, the gravity of just doing the thing you’ve been doing, staying still, resisting the change. Once I let myself go the route of change it happened pretty quickly that I felt myself moving in the right direction, finally. 

Heh, I can 100% see how you felt regarding your last statement.  Status quo is so comforting and easy - actually taking on this huge change is terrifying.  I've been super happy the past couple weeks just pretending like this isn't even going on, working my new job, and enjoying my house.  Thursday i'll have to face reality.

[EdamAnchorman]

2 hours ago, lyst said:

The fact is though to me it will not be a "done deal" until the papers are signed and the divorce is final.  It's not humanly possible for me to squash all hope on this.  Like I said above I can't change how my heart feels.  The only thing I can do is try to be as realistic as possible, and try to protect myself as much as possible.

Seems like the minute she told you she wants a divorce was the point where it was a "done deal", signing the papers is just a formality.  It's the intent and the feelings that make the divorce, not some signatures on a paper.

Like others have said, even if she does decide to come back and give it a try on her own, there's tons of baggage and a huge rift there.  Best to already consider it a done deal and, like others have said, consider the rest as sort of a business transaction (as hard as that may be).

Edited December 20, 2022 by randomsummer

[lyst]

4 minutes ago, randomsummer said:

Seems like the minute she told you she wants a divorce was the point where it was a "done deal", signing the papers is just a formality.  It's the intent and the feelings that make the divorce, not some signatures on a paper.

Like others have said, even if she does decide to come back and give it a try on her own, there's tons of baggage and a huge rift there.  Best to already consider it a done deal and, like others have said, consider the rest as sort of a business transaction (as hard as that may be).

I get what you are saying but I just don't view it that way.  When I married her and gave those vows I promised through sickness and health, through everything.  Pretty much that we'd grow old and die together.  I do not take those vows lightly.  I will always take the option of working on it, reconciliation, marriage counseling, etc. over divorce.  And that view will remain that way until the divorce is final.

I'll never understand how a week before she left we were holding each other every night, saying we loved each other, kissing each other, etc.  How quickly it can go from that to divorce - something just seems off to me.

But regardless of all of that, i'm not going to fight for something that isn't there.  I'm going to do what most people are saying.  Remain business-like and do what needs to be done.

[zazen]

59 minutes ago, lyst said:

 

So right now is a crucial time, the way things are going as far as divorce might be the easiest way humanly possible to do it.  She said she'd be down for everyone keeping their own investments, just sell the house, and then DONE.  But we have to sit down and agree on these things.  Get it into some kind of writing, and then get it off to a lawyer.  I think i need to be around these couple days that she's here so that we can finally sit down and discuss these things and hash them out. 

Fair enough

Actually despite my advice in the previous post, now I think of it, the one time I split up with someone that I owned a house with (she had had an affair) I remained in touch with her and 'friends' for exactly as long as it took to sell the house and split the money (we werent married so no divorce to sort out). Then I got the fuck away. I sortof did that unconsciously, while we were sorting the house out it made total sense to me that we would stay friends. Then once we'd sorted it out and the deposit money was back in my account, I was hit with the realisation that I was much better off just moving on and I never wanted to see her again.

[lyst]

Man I should've listened to you guys @zazen @chim that said to get the fuck outta the house.  This is absolute torture with her here.  She wants nothing to do with me and has said it's over multiple times, and i'm still in this horrible limbo of still loving her and not wanting it to end.  I keep succumbing to hope where there is not any.

It's not helping that it's fucking Christmas.

This shit is seriously gut-wrenching.  I have no clue how so many other people deal with getting left and divorced like this.

[Satans Little Helper]

Even though you may feel like shit, it looks to me you’ve made an important step. Next up: take distance and a new perspective. And that new perspective is about you and your future. Take distance from her. Physically. But just as important, emotionally. Also from your feelings for her. Thats not to say you should deny your feelings. That never works. But you need to put them in a different perspective. You need to be able to say you still love her and at the same time put those feelings in a new perspective.
Or in my case, get over the “she’s the one” thing. (Ima a real sucker for that one. Had a number of those…) It’s just a feeling. Even though it appears special…every time. My mind is pretty good at playing those tricks on me.

Edited December 24, 2022 by Satans Little Helper

[lyst]

6 hours ago, Satans Little Helper said:

Even though you may feel like shit, it looks to me you’ve made an important step. Next up: take distance and a new perspective. And that new perspective is about you and your future. Take distance from her. Physically. But just as important, emotionally. Also from your feelings for her. Thats not to say you should deny your feelings. That never works. But you need to put them in a different perspective. You need to be able to say you still love her and at the same time put those feelings in a new perspective.
Or in my case, get over the “she’s the one” thing. (Ima a real sucker for that one. Had a number of those…) It’s just a feeling. Even though it appears special…every time. My mind is pretty good at playing those tricks on me.

Yea I think distance is a big one.  I was doing alright with her being at her place and me being at mine.  When she came home it threw me into a tailspin.  I got all happy hearing her voice, her laughter, just even feeling her presence in the house.  There's a possibility she's leaving today so I hope that's the case.

"She's the One" thing isn't bothering me too much at the moment.  Purely because "The One" wouldn't abandon me penniless, make me feel bad for having health problems, not support me during the toughest times and just give up instead.

I do think she still loves me,  but what she wants more is a "normal" and "dependable" partner that has zero baggage or issues.  That's just not how life works though.  There's always going to be curveballs and hard times.  You fight through these together to get back to the good times - and hopefully come out stronger than you were before.

[Squee]

13 hours ago, lyst said:

She wants nothing to do with me and has said it's over multiple times

1 hour ago, lyst said:

...she wants more is a "normal" and "dependable" partner that has zero baggage or issues.

I know I should tread lightly here, but damn... unless you've done something unspeakable her way of dealing with the whole situation seems pretty hostile and not very caring.

Do you have any family or friends you can go visit over the holidays?

[lyst]

35 minutes ago, Squee said:

I know I should tread lightly here, but damn... unless you've done something unspeakable her way of dealing with the whole situation seems pretty hostile and not very caring.

Do you have any family or friends you can go visit over the holidays?

Yea man, extremely hostile and non-caring.  I mean she is a cold german (born and raised in Germany, has been here in the US for a few years).  Not sensitive, very dry and hardened person.  As far as what I did to her - I always treated her amazing.   The straw that broke the camel's back is 6 months ago when I had to quit my job for 2 reasons, 1. Very Toxic Workplace (Boss publicly berating me and threatening to fire me in front of the whole company type of stuff).  2. Health Issues got extremely bad (was shitting blood and barely able to get out of bed some days) and knew I needed to take some time to get my health right.

She didn't care about either of those reasons, just that I was quitting my job and that makes me not dependable (FYI - I had 15,000 dollars in my bank when I quit.  Money was not an issue - I continued to pay all the bills while job searching).  So the past few months I worked really hard on my health and the job search and now have a legit job that fits me.

Luckily all my friends and family are within 30 min from me.  I'll go to my friend's house for a football game today and then head to my father's house for christmas eve.

[Grain Bastard]

Are you aware of what was causing you to shit blood? You managing that??

 

I have ulcerative colitis and from experience you can’t ignore that - in fact two weeks intensive care in hospital proved it beyond doubt.

 

get it sorted man.

[zazen]

On 12/24/2022 at 12:54 PM, lyst said:

 ... the "She's the One" thing ...

Tim Minchin has some wise words on the concept of The One

(we played this at our wedding)

Quote

Our love is one in a million, you couldn't buy it at any price
But of the nine point nine nine nine hundred thousand other possible loves
Statistically some of them would be equally nice

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by zazen

[marf]

id say its fair to assume most everyone here has been through a life of pain (and happiness) at this point. No children here.

Get your health looked at ,asap. Go to the emergency room if you have to. Pay 20 bucks a month forever if you dont have insurance. Who cares. 

Don't end your life!!! Life is a surprise.  You have good friends? And family? You are already there.

Do you really love her? Or are you just afraid of change? Id wager a woman like that would be easy to get over. Dumping you over money? typical. 

Its true. Woman are not sporadic like that, it's been brewing in her. She was faking it to keep you from suspicion.  Unless she has some undiagnosed mental illness.

Know thyself, Lyst. You sound like a very sensitive moral man. Vows being a serious thing to you. She broke them

What is the pain source? The thought of another man with her? Losing her companionship? Her cold companionship? Reanalyze why you were with her just as she did with you. Maybe you got stuck in a rut? Dont like change? 

Did you really love her? Or do you love the woman you dated before the real one came out?  The woman does not seem salvageable. Some marriages are. This is done, but it is a blessing in disguise.

Do you obsess for years like I do about a woman? If not. You are going to be fine

Life can bring unimaginable joy out of the darkest cataclysmic events. You just have to let that star implode. It's never over. 

I would not stay in that house with her one more day. Cut this off.. Come to terms with it, talk to friends as often as possible. They will be your lifeline, and be cold as fuck. Get a lawyer. 

Edited December 26, 2022 by marf