Jump to content


Join WATMM Now!

Register and Subscribe now for as little 3.00 USD for one year to gain Supporting Member access. We also have other subscription packages to choose from that grant you extra abilities and features.

A subscription is required in order to post, reply to posts, start topics, search, and other features.

By joining and subscribing, you are helping support the forums, as well enable us to add new features and enhancements (and maintain them).

Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more.

To sign up for a subscription package, click your user name in the upper right, and choose "Client Area". Then, choose a package that suits your needs.

This message will be removed once you have signed in.


drukqs prepared piano
what do we know about the preparation


  • Please log in to reply
65 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_awkward_*

Guest_awkward_*
  • Guests
  • 19 topics
  • Joined --

Posted 10 October 2006 - 01:14 PM

i was listening to drukqs this morning and the piano tracks are imo some of richards best work. it got me thinking about how he created these tracks. i know hes quite secretive but what do we know about how he prepared the piano?

#2 Guest_Glass Plate_*

Guest_Glass Plate_*
  • Guests
  • 70 topics
  • Joined --

Posted 10 October 2006 - 02:16 PM

most of it just sounds like, specific things on the piano, like tacks etc. and detuning.

#3 Guest_AlexPallas_*

Guest_AlexPallas_*
  • Guests
  • 603 topics
  • Joined --

Posted 10 October 2006 - 02:18 PM

he did it systematically and recorded everything individually (or just eq'ed it fantastically). i like on the first song that the sound of the hammer striking wood (not making contact with strings) is used. that is brilliant. also on another song he recorded the sound of pressing piano pedals which was pretty cool.

#4 barbara planar

barbara planar

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 841 posts
  • 603 topics
  • Joined 13-February 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:United States

Posted 10 October 2006 - 02:26 PM

these sound like they could have been performed live. were the sounds recorded individually and then arranged afterwards?

#5 Guest_Glass Plate_*

Guest_Glass Plate_*
  • Guests
  • 603 topics
  • Joined --

Posted 10 October 2006 - 02:36 PM

I know one track is just a pump organ, right? If my mom would let me, I'd buy one right now. I already have a organ in my house, but it's not the same, and my mom is about to sell it.

#6 Guest_Caustic_*

Guest_Caustic_*
  • Guests
  • 255 topics
  • Joined --

Posted 10 October 2006 - 02:41 PM

QUOTE (Wikipedia sez)
At least 13 of the 30 tracks are piano compositions, both prepared piano (a style pioneered by John Cage), and normal piano. These tracks have an acoustic beauty not commonly associated with an electronic music artist such as James. The instrument used was a MIDI-controlled Yamaha Disklavier, which James programmed to play via sequencers, rather than from the piano's keyboard. The Disklavier is a modern descendent of the player pianos of the late 19th and early 20th century, which were controlled by rolls of punched paper tape.


cause im too lazy to think of a theory.

#7 Bubba69

Bubba69

    2K, On My Way

  • Knob Twiddlers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,688 posts
  • 255 topics
  • Joined 25-November 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:United States
  • PSN:wetpaste

Posted 10 October 2006 - 02:57 PM

QUOTE (pry buddigs @ Oct 10 2006, 01:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
these sound like they could have been performed live. were the sounds recorded individually and then arranged afterwards?


I believe it was live. He was using a yamaha midi piano. The mic positions and such were different for the different tracks though.

#8 Guest_Jimbob_*

Guest_Jimbob_*
  • Guests
  • 68 topics
  • Joined --

Posted 10 October 2006 - 03:00 PM

putting common household objects between the strings right? cause that is what prepared piano is i'm sure.....?
i was crusing Bleep.com the other day and theres a live version of Jynweythek from the London Sinfonietta album....i find it difficult to believe that it is anything but pure acoustic piano

#9 Guest_Glass Plate_*

Guest_Glass Plate_*
  • Guests
  • 95 topics
  • Joined --

Posted 10 October 2006 - 03:12 PM

A prepared piano is a piano that has had its sound altered by placing objects (preparations) between or on the strings or on the hammers or dampers. (Wikiepedia)

Edited by Glass Plate, 10 October 2006 - 03:12 PM.


#10 Guest_awkward_*

Guest_awkward_*
  • Guests
  • Joined --

Posted 10 October 2006 - 03:14 PM

QUOTE (Caustic @ Oct 10 2006, 01:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Wikipedia sez)
At least 13 of the 30 tracks are piano compositions, both prepared piano (a style pioneered by John Cage), and normal piano. These tracks have an acoustic beauty not commonly associated with an electronic music artist such as James. The instrument used was a MIDI-controlled Yamaha Disklavier, which James programmed to play via sequencers, rather than from the piano's keyboard. The Disklavier is a modern descendent of the player pianos of the late 19th and early 20th century, which were controlled by rolls of punched paper tape.


cause im too lazy to think of a theory.


i dont really understand the control by sequencers bit. does james not tinkle the ivories?

so everything is written in sequencers (like how i write in buzz) and then sent via MIDI to this yamaha. and it was prepared by him messing with the settings on the keyb? the preparedness aludes me now. is knob twiddling now preparing a piano? modern day equiv

#11 Guest_Dr. Elemeno von Hat X: PhD_*

Guest_Dr. Elemeno von Hat X: PhD_*
  • Guests
  • Joined --

Posted 10 October 2006 - 03:16 PM

you can do things like mute the strings, put a cat inside, etc. to get weirder noises i'd imagine

also, of course, velocity and extereme octave use, mic placement, eq, postprocessing

#12 Guest_AlexPallas_*

Guest_AlexPallas_*
  • Guests
  • Joined --

Posted 10 October 2006 - 03:19 PM

i thought everybody knew what a prepared piano is...anyway most of the Cage stuff i heard is shit (sorry Johnny). he released an album with Sun Ra that totally sucked ass.

#13 Guest_Jimbob_*

Guest_Jimbob_*
  • Guests
  • Joined --

Posted 10 October 2006 - 03:19 PM

cats eh?
sounds like a plan

#14 kaini

kaini

    eat your greens, especially broccoli.

  • EKT Plus
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,845 posts
  • Joined 16-November 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:Ireland
  • Steam:richard P feynman

Posted 10 October 2006 - 07:53 PM

QUOTE (awkward @ Oct 10 2006, 10:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Caustic @ Oct 10 2006, 01:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE (Wikipedia sez)
At least 13 of the 30 tracks are piano compositions, both prepared piano (a style pioneered by John Cage), and normal piano. These tracks have an acoustic beauty not commonly associated with an electronic music artist such as James. The instrument used was a MIDI-controlled Yamaha Disklavier, which James programmed to play via sequencers, rather than from the piano's keyboard. The Disklavier is a modern descendent of the player pianos of the late 19th and early 20th century, which were controlled by rolls of punched paper tape.


cause im too lazy to think of a theory.


i dont really understand the control by sequencers bit. does james not tinkle the ivories?


nope, rdj cannot play piano as far as i know

QUOTE (awkward @ Oct 10 2006, 10:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
so everything is written in sequencers (like how i write in buzz) and then sent via MIDI to this yamaha.


yep

QUOTE (awkward @ Oct 10 2006, 10:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
and it was prepared by him messing with the settings on the keyb? the preparedness aludes me now. is knob twiddling now preparing a piano? modern day equiv


nope. one of the reasons the diskclavier (which i believe is a relation of the synclavier, which frank zappa was a huge fan of) is so damn expensive is that although it can receive midi data, it physically plays the notes via a hammer striking a string, the same as a regular piano, except here the hammers are activated by a solenoid (in essence an electromagnet) instead of a human striking a key - the piano was prepared by inserting various objects, damping strings, odd slack or very tight tuning of the string, that sort of thing.

at least that's my understanding of things.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Disklavier

#15 kaini

kaini

    eat your greens, especially broccoli.

  • EKT Plus
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,845 posts
  • Joined 16-November 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:Ireland
  • Steam:richard P feynman

Posted 10 October 2006 - 08:23 PM

QUOTE (AlexPallas @ Oct 11 2006, 03:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (ka.ini @ Oct 10 2006, 05:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the piano was prepared by inserting various objects, damping strings, odd slack or very tight tuning of the string, that sort of thing.

at least that's my understanding of things.


correcto-mundo on the prepared piano info, john cage shoved some stuff in between the strings one day when he was bored. i think he was a school teacher at the time.


NO WAY


QUOTE
however i do believe rdj can play piano, i think i read that somewhere, he taught himself yet doesn't understand music theory et cetera


rdj says a lot of stuff. i promise you he can't play piano to any great degree.

Edited by ka.ini, 10 October 2006 - 08:23 PM.


#16 Guest_AlexPallas_*

Guest_AlexPallas_*
  • Guests
  • Joined --

Posted 10 October 2006 - 09:13 PM

d00d quit acting like an aol user. you said you werent sure, so i told u, no need to pull the captain obvious. also i know rdj lies in his interviews, if you have noticed i have quite a few of his interviews posted.

#17 Guest_oxiactionmax_*

Guest_oxiactionmax_*
  • Guests
  • Joined --

Posted 10 October 2006 - 09:22 PM

QUOTE (AlexPallas @ Oct 10 2006, 10:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i thought everybody knew what a prepared piano is...anyway most of the Cage stuff i heard is shit (sorry Johnny). he released an album with Sun Ra that totally sucked ass.


don't be hatin on cage, the sonatas and interludes for prepared piano are wicked

#18 kaini

kaini

    eat your greens, especially broccoli.

  • EKT Plus
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,845 posts
  • Joined 16-November 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:Ireland
  • Steam:richard P feynman

Posted 10 October 2006 - 09:23 PM

sorry, i just assume everyone knows who cage is cos he's mentioned in every drukqs review ever, for one.

i'm in a somewhat odd mood cos my dog died this morning.
that's not some new internet slang. my dog actually died this morning. :(

#19 Guest_Dr. Elemeno von Hat X: PhD_*

Guest_Dr. Elemeno von Hat X: PhD_*
  • Guests
  • Joined --

Posted 10 October 2006 - 10:25 PM

that sucks, man. that's the worst part of having a pet.

i'd advise working on some tunes to help yourself out.

my last dog died about two years ago. did a lot of vaguely melancholy music, around then

#20 modey

modey

    Orinoco Flep

  • Knob Twiddlers
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,362 posts
  • Joined 08-June 04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Melbourne
  • Interests:⠃⠋⠛⠀⠼⠊⠚⠚⠚
  • Country:Australia

Posted 10 October 2006 - 10:34 PM

Come on guise, it's totally sequenced. Take Avril 14 for example, that's rigid as fuck. Same with Kesson Dalef or whatever the hell the title is.

#21 Guest_Dr. Elemeno von Hat X: PhD_*

Guest_Dr. Elemeno von Hat X: PhD_*
  • Guests
  • Joined --

Posted 10 October 2006 - 10:38 PM

well, i buy the yamaha midi piano dealio. i think he should also get a robot that plays guitar.

#22 Guest_Wall Bird_*

Guest_Wall Bird_*
  • Guests
  • Joined --

Posted 10 October 2006 - 10:41 PM

QUOTE (AlexPallas @ Oct 10 2006, 05:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
he released an album with Sun Ra that totally sucked ass.


I enjoyed that album.

#23 modey

modey

    Orinoco Flep

  • Knob Twiddlers
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,362 posts
  • Joined 08-June 04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Melbourne
  • Interests:⠃⠋⠛⠀⠼⠊⠚⠚⠚
  • Country:Australia

Posted 11 October 2006 - 01:17 AM

QUOTE (Dr. Elemeno von Hat X: PhD @ Oct 11 2006, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
well, i buy the yamaha midi piano dealio. i think he should also get a robot that plays guitar.


Yeah, it was definitely a real piano, you can hear the mechanics of it.

#24 k h o v

k h o v

    1000 Club

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,592 posts
  • Joined 17-November 05

Posted 11 October 2006 - 02:51 AM

yeah john cage invented that prepared pianos "genre", that version is expensive but you have another cd, bonus cd, of improvisations (with prepared pianos, like the "cage parameeters" if u know what i mean, done by the pianist), the Sonatas & interludes are pretty well known in the classical music world (at least in contemporary music), its really good.


http://www.amazon.co...s...TF8&s=music

Edited by k h o v, 11 October 2006 - 02:52 AM.


#25 amni

amni

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 722 posts
  • Joined 16-November 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:Not Selected

Posted 11 October 2006 - 02:57 AM

John Cage was cool way ahead of his time, his buddy David Tudor is amazing his litrle boxes of electronics,,,,yes Cage and Sun Ra was crap, I own all of Sun Ras work and all of Cages and it was embarrasing