Fresco

[Salvatorin]

There is a fundamental issue with reaching a state of societal equilibrium. The historically abnormal period of exponential Human development (spurred on by the advent of mercantilism) has left certain groups of people used to linear expansion (scientific, quality of life, cultural), at a rate which was (as we know) previously unknown. We have nearly all Humans mentally conditioned to figuring time on a ridiculously narrow scale, with no set purpose for existing.

 

This is where Zeitgeist and such turn into something strange. They argue that technology exists to make life easier for us, which conversely points out that fatal flaw of Humanity at the moment- we haven't evolved to meet the implications of our technology, we are still the same animal people with animal cultures, just augmented by electronics and machines and infrastructure.

 

Now, many humans living in stable areas have come to know a life that is filled with instant gratifications. Other people, who weren't born into the consumer culture, are assimilated into it (enslaved to it really). Most people don't want to lose the way of life that has been precariously set up over the past couple hundred of years, because its all they've known.

 

My mind is wandering...I've gone over this a hundred times, buts its always so hard to articulate.

 

Let me try again.

 

(now the next statement is based on widely accepted scientific and archeological viewpoint, not the mind-shattering archeological anomalies and recent discoveries which I follow with great fervor)

 

Scientists say, anatomically, our species has changed very little in the past 150,000 years. But for some reason, around 8000 years ago we domesticate plants, and then we go through a period of civilizations rising and falling all around the globe. Oddly enough, around 500 years ago, a spark sets off and exponentially, we grow. In a tiny fraction it has taken to get here, we've created technology that could seal ourselves in a comfortable existence for another 150,000 years.

 

But, as a whole, to comprehend this and make sustainability a reality...we'd have to go against everything we've worked toward...

 

Capitalism has never had to wrap itself around the idea of not expanding.

 

ahh fuck typing speaking is so much easier

[SR4]

There is a fundamental issue with reaching a state of societal equilibrium. The historically abnormal period of exponential Human development (spurred on by the advent of mercantilism) has left certain groups of people used to linear expansion (scientific, quality of life, cultural), at a rate which was (as we know) previously unknown. We have nearly all Humans mentally conditioned to figuring time on a ridiculously narrow scale, with no set purpose for existing.

 

This is where Zeitgeist and such turn into something strange. They argue that technology exists to make life easier for us, which conversely points out that fatal flaw of Humanity at the moment- we haven't evolved to meet the implications of our technology, we are still the same animal people with animal cultures, just augmented by electronics and machines and infrastructure.

 

Now, many humans living in stable areas have come to know a life that is filled with instant gratifications. Other people, who weren't born into the consumer culture, are assimilated into it (enslaved to it really). Most people don't want to lose the way of life that has been precariously set up over the past couple hundred of years, because its all they've known.

 

My mind is wandering...I've gone over this a hundred times, buts its always so hard to articulate.

 

Let me try again.

 

(now the next statement is based on widely accepted scientific and archeological viewpoint, not the mind-shattering archeological anomalies and recent discoveries which I follow with great fervor)

 

Scientists say, anatomically, our species has changed very little in the past 150,000 years. But for some reason, around 8000 years ago we domesticate plants, and then we go through a period of civilizations rising and falling all around the globe. Oddly enough, around 500 years ago, a spark sets off and exponentially, we grow. In a tiny fraction it has taken to get here, we've created technology that could seal ourselves in a comfortable existence for another 150,000 years.

 

But, as a whole, to comprehend this and make sustainability a reality...we'd have to go against everything we've worked toward...

 

Capitalism has never had to wrap itself around the idea of not expanding.

 

ahh fuck typing speaking is so much easier

 

 

this is basically what I meant, but i was too high to explain it properly. thank you sal.

[Guest catsonearth]

i don't understand what you're getting at to be honest. You don't horde air because you don't need to, as there's so much of it. When you say "the reason you don't horde air is because you never had to in past human existance"

 

I've just given you the reason why.

 

Actually i just don't see how what i've said can be disputed, it's pretty obvious stuff.

 

 

im explaining as to why we horded as a being in the first place, hence power and control mechanisms, and why this fruit loop idea will never work. basically humans are too smart. we have the capacity to change our ways for a universal better but the lust for control and dominance will never go away....and hording, which led to communes, tribes, etc etc is one of the root causes for the shit mess we are in.

 

I like these ideas you all propose, dont get me wrong, but they are completely impossible at the current point in time and most likely for many many generations to come. You don't change thousands of years of civilization with one movie and some wishful thinking.

 

...which is exactly why the main need right now is in education and exposure, not in implementation. you're never just going to walk up to someone, tap them on the shoulder, tell them about this concept and expect them to drop everything and completely restructure their lives. i talked with rambo about this briefly in a PM exchange, but before any of this stuff can begin to take route we have to first raise the level of general intelligence across the majority of the population. i'm not talking book smarts, i'm talking intellect - the ability to rationalize, analyze, think abstractly, etc.

 

people don't ever actually change unless it comes from within themselves via necessity or revelation. they have to come to a conclusion on their own or else it has no personal meaning for them and everyone comes to things differently. but before anyone can even get to the point where they're at this fork in the road they have to be intelligent enough to analyze the world around them, look past their own petty personal dilemmas and be able to put themselves in someone else's situation. that may seem like an obvious thing to say, but it's not exactly an obvious thing to accomplish. as it is right now, there are just too many people in the world that have never thought about alternatives to the life they're living. they've never even taken the time to sit back and think about why they do the things they do and if they've never done that, there's no possible way they can even conceive of a need for an alternative.

 

no one in their right mind, even the hickiest of rednecks, would choose to spend money on slim jim's from wal mart if there was an alternative where they could have all the slim jim's their heart desires free of charge. but unless that redneck can comprehend the concept of a resource based economy and disassociate it from "communism" or "socialism" or "terrorism" or any other kind of -ism they've been conditioned to have a deeply ingrained aversion to, he's going to continue believing that the alternative would somehow take something away from him. the mentality of a lot of the world that's been influenced greatly by capitalism is that people who aren't "making it" are simply lazy, aren't trying hard enough and just want a free handout, which would inevitably have to come from the profits of people who are working hard and "making it". a person like that is never going to truly understand the flip side until it effects them. that's starting to happen with the economic crisis right now - people who once thought that way are now having their homes taken away and are scratching their heads like "why is this happening to me? what have i done to deserve this?" and inevitably, if they have any critical thinking skills, they'll come to the conclusion that they didn't do anything - they were taken advantage of by a system that makes more money off of dept than they do off of people being comfortable and living within their means. and that realization might lead to other revelations about how other people live and why they are in the positions they are in. the problem is that many of these people aren't making it to the revelation stage because they lack the critical thinking skills, so they simply stall out on the "that's just the way it is" stage.

 

it's just a shame that it has to come about via suffering and loss as opposed to having this kind of wisdom passed down through our education systems. we try to force kids to learn math and science, but we don't teach them the fundamental thinking skills that would allow them to actually understand the practical applications of such things and see how they relate to the bigger issues of life. teach people how to think and they can figure out math for themselves, but the other way around doesn't exactly work. it's like trying to teach symbolism before you teach storytelling.

 

i don't believe in the concept of a utopia because there will always be some problem or another, but i do believe that we can significantly cut down on the amount of problems we have to deal with and perhaps make the problems that are left over more manageable. just because problems will always exist doesn't mean we should just lay back and let as many of them as can possibly be trickle down onto us so that our lives are utter chaos. we should do what we can to eliminate the problems that can be eliminated, so we can focus our attention on managing the ones that can't be eliminated. there will always be murder, for instance, but as it is our law enforcement agencies spend so much time on other things - robberies, drug offenses, prostitution, etc. (things that i believe can be eliminated as crimes or managed and decriminalized), that their attention is too broad to really be effective in managing the murders. because murder will never go away, should we just give up and accept all crime as an inevitability or should we try to change what we can in order to make what we can't change less of a burden?

 

the silver lining to this cloud is that we don't have to change every single person on the planet, which is a monumentally impossible task - it only takes one generation. there are people that are stuck in their ways and it's hard to do anything about them, but those people aren't going to be around for much longer. all it takes is raising one generation to have a certain value system and from that point on human nature takes it's course and those beliefs get passed on and appropriated by society. with the mass market society, we've seen that it's possible to influence an entire generation (look at hip hop, for instance), so i don't think it's as impossible as people think it is. difficult, yea, but not impossible.

[GORDO]

It is well known that primitive civilizations live this way. It even has a name: primitive communism.

 

This is the kind of thing i have in mind when I say that we should turn to smaller and smaller organization rather than on big centralized ones. when you live in a small town, even one where money exists people are more likely willing to help you out and share.

 

the enviroment vs. nature is an old debate and one that hasn't been settled. it is a mix of the two, there are more than enough exceptions and similarities in behavior in every and between these two.

 

Will it not have to be everyone across the world working together in unison to get something like a RBE implemented? We shouldn't have to retreat to smaller localised communities as they would isolate people from sharing new technologies, and you'd invevitably corrupt the small groups of communities by creating an "us against them" mentality going.. sort of like how patriotism is seen today and the fact that we have boarders around countries which is pretty backwards as well. I was born on this planet so surely the planet belongs to everyone and you should be permitted to travel anywhere you like? "Sorry son", money stops you from doing this on so many levels. I think collectively, we can agree that the money system can be criticised negatively for hours and hours upon end. It's just a terrible way of living.

 

It could be praised for hours as well.

[Dale]

There is a fundamental issue with reaching a state of societal equilibrium. The historically abnormal period of exponential Human development (spurred on by the advent of mercantilism) has left certain groups of people used to linear expansion (scientific, quality of life, cultural), at a rate which was (as we know) previously unknown. We have nearly all Humans mentally conditioned to figuring time on a ridiculously narrow scale, with no set purpose for existing.

Yes, this society we live in tends to perpetuate a "struggle : survive, struggle : survive" mentality which in my mind is a complete distortion of the way we can be and should be living. In life, conditioning itself is one of the greatest factors of influence on the human mind. You don't even need scientific studies to prove that point, just ask yourself what you have experienced in your life time which has lead you to the paths you have chosen in various situations you have experienced. It's all an experience heavily influenced by the environment around us.

This is where Zeitgeist and such turn into something strange. They argue that technology exists to make life easier for us, which conversely points out that fatal flaw of Humanity at the moment- we haven't evolved to meet the implications of our technology, we are still the same animal people with animal cultures, just augmented by electronics and machines and infrastructure.

I find it difficult to agree - this money based system we have in place fails to keep up to date with technology. This is why you see technological unemployment on the rise whereby machine automation creates job losses and redundancies. The monetary system is outdated and primitive, not the human. The human being is just a subject of their conditioning.. they're not the problem, it's the system that dominates our everyday lives that fails to keep up with the pace of current day technological capabilities. Money creates those primitive and "animal-like" conditions that you speak of. Once money is replaced with something much more beneficial and advanced for all of humanity, this is when we will be able to see primitive world views such as ownership, patriotism, robbery etc. phase out.

 

Just going off on a tangent, I feel the need to mention that governments are quite frankly an insult to human intelligence. If we were brought up in a resource based economy environment, you'd see people taking lead over themselves and not others. Problems are technological - not political.

Now, many humans living in stable areas have come to know a life that is filled with instant gratifications. Other people, who weren't born into the consumer culture, are assimilated into it (enslaved to it really). Most people don't want to lose the way of life that has been precariously set up over the past couple hundred of years, because its all they've known.

Reward based incentives are what motivate people in a money system > which again, I would like to address as a total distortion. Our current value systems just aren't positive at all. We choose to value money over most things because that's what allows for us to survive > fake > theoretical = money. If you were stranded on an island, the most real elements around you are resources to help you survive there, money just would not have any basis and would seem completely irrelevant. It's almost like a faith based system we live in, just like religion when really we need to move away from faith and head towards scientific goals in the betterment of all human beings, leaving no one behind. People die in this system as previously denoted, just because they have no money to their name. How backwards can you be as a so-called "civilisation"? What do we value the most, the lives of poor starving children in the world or the next up and coming celebrity?

But, as a whole, to comprehend this and make sustainability a reality...we'd have to go against everything we've worked toward...

 

Capitalism has never had to wrap itself around the idea of not expanding.

Capitalism chokes and strangles the true growth and advancement of people.

 

It is well known that primitive civilizations live this way. It even has a name: primitive communism.

 

This is the kind of thing i have in mind when I say that we should turn to smaller and smaller organization rather than on big centralized ones. when you live in a small town, even one where money exists people are more likely willing to help you out and share.

 

the enviroment vs. nature is an old debate and one that hasn't been settled. it is a mix of the two, there are more than enough exceptions and similarities in behavior in every and between these two.

 

Will it not have to be everyone across the world working together in unison to get something like a RBE implemented? We shouldn't have to retreat to smaller localised communities as they would isolate people from sharing new technologies, and you'd invevitably corrupt the small groups of communities by creating an "us against them" mentality going.. sort of like how patriotism is seen today and the fact that we have boarders around countries which is pretty backwards as well. I was born on this planet so surely the planet belongs to everyone and you should be permitted to travel anywhere you like? "Sorry son", money stops you from doing this on so many levels. I think collectively, we can agree that the money system can be criticised negatively for hours and hours upon end. It's just a terrible way of living.

It could be praised for hours as well.

List the positive attributes and I'll have a read

[awepittance]

Zeitgiest and the venus project get waaaay too much attention, in the bigger scheme of things they pretty much ripped all their ideas off of others before them, not saying i agree with the creators of these theories just repacking them in a very low production value way its astounding to me how popular Zeitgiest has gotten.

 

it's more personal for me because i am sort of friends with dylan avery the guy who made loose change and the original zeitgiest stole a lot of his hard work and efforts without crediting him

[GORDO]

There is a fundamental issue with reaching a state of societal equilibrium. The historically abnormal period of exponential Human development (spurred on by the advent of mercantilism) has left certain groups of people used to linear expansion (scientific, quality of life, cultural), at a rate which was (as we know) previously unknown. We have nearly all Humans mentally conditioned to figuring time on a ridiculously narrow scale, with no set purpose for existing.

Yes, this society we live in tends to perpetuate a "struggle : survive, struggle : survive" mentality which in my mind is a complete distortion of the way we can be and should be living. In life, conditioning itself is one of the greatest factors of influence on the human mind. You don't even need scientific studies to prove that point, just ask yourself what you have experienced in your life time which has lead you to the paths you have chosen in various situations you have experienced. It's all an experience heavily influenced by the environment around us.

This is where Zeitgeist and such turn into something strange. They argue that technology exists to make life easier for us, which conversely points out that fatal flaw of Humanity at the moment- we haven't evolved to meet the implications of our technology, we are still the same animal people with animal cultures, just augmented by electronics and machines and infrastructure.

I find it difficult to agree - this money based system we have in place fails to keep up to date with technology. This is why you see technological unemployment on the rise whereby machine automation creates job losses and redundancies. The monetary system is outdated and primitive, not the human. The human being is just a subject of their conditioning.. they're not the problem, it's the system that dominates our everyday lives that fails to keep up with the pace of current day technological capabilities. Money creates those primitive and "animal-like" conditions that you speak of. Once money is replaced with something much more beneficial and advanced for all of humanity, this is when we will be able to see primitive world views such as ownership, patriotism, robbery etc. phase out.

 

Just going off on a tangent, I feel the need to mention that governments are quite frankly an insult to human intelligence. If we were brought up in a resource based economy environment, you'd see people taking lead over themselves and not others. Problems are technological - not political.

Now, many humans living in stable areas have come to know a life that is filled with instant gratifications. Other people, who weren't born into the consumer culture, are assimilated into it (enslaved to it really). Most people don't want to lose the way of life that has been precariously set up over the past couple hundred of years, because its all they've known.

Reward based incentives are what motivate people in a money system > which again, I would like to address as a total distortion. Our current value systems just aren't positive at all. We choose to value money over most things because that's what allows for us to survive > fake > theoretical = money. If you were stranded on an island, the most real elements around you are resources to help you survive there, money just would not have any basis and would seem completely irrelevant. It's almost like a faith based system we live in, just like religion when really we need to move away from faith and head towards scientific goals in the betterment of all human beings, leaving no one behind. People die in this system as previously denoted, just because they have no money to their name. How backwards can you be as a so-called "civilisation"? What do we value the most, the lives of poor starving children in the world or the next up and coming celebrity?

But, as a whole, to comprehend this and make sustainability a reality...we'd have to go against everything we've worked toward...

 

Capitalism has never had to wrap itself around the idea of not expanding.

Capitalism chokes and strangles the true growth and advancement of people.

 

It is well known that primitive civilizations live this way. It even has a name: primitive communism.

 

This is the kind of thing i have in mind when I say that we should turn to smaller and smaller organization rather than on big centralized ones. when you live in a small town, even one where money exists people are more likely willing to help you out and share.

 

the enviroment vs. nature is an old debate and one that hasn't been settled. it is a mix of the two, there are more than enough exceptions and similarities in behavior in every and between these two.

 

Will it not have to be everyone across the world working together in unison to get something like a RBE implemented? We shouldn't have to retreat to smaller localised communities as they would isolate people from sharing new technologies, and you'd invevitably corrupt the small groups of communities by creating an "us against them" mentality going.. sort of like how patriotism is seen today and the fact that we have boarders around countries which is pretty backwards as well. I was born on this planet so surely the planet belongs to everyone and you should be permitted to travel anywhere you like? "Sorry son", money stops you from doing this on so many levels. I think collectively, we can agree that the money system can be criticised negatively for hours and hours upon end. It's just a terrible way of living.

It could be praised for hours as well.

List the positive attributes and I'll have a read

 

I'll just condense it into it saying that it is why we are so developed.

[Dale]

Zeitgiest and the venus project get waaaay too much attention, in the bigger scheme of things they pretty much ripped all their ideas off of others before them, not saying i agree with the creators of these theories just repacking them in a very low production value way its astounding to me how popular Zeitgiest has gotten.

 

it's more personal for me because i am sort of friends with dylan avery the guy who made loose change and the original zeitgiest stole a lot of his hard work and efforts without crediting him

I thought Peter Joseph, producer of the Zeitgeist films approached all the sources that contributed to both Z1 and Addendum and asked permission to use the clips gathered together. He's often said in interviews that Zeitgeist 1 was very much a personal film project of his that wasn't really aimed at a huge audience, it wasn't until it was uploaded to the net that the film gained recognition and ended up seeing millions downloading it worldwide. Loose change is great I think. You should find that Loose Change has been credited by Peter in the end credits of the first film.

 

It's not so much "Zeitgeist" and "The Venus Project" getting a lot of attention, it's the messages behind the sort of ideas promoted by Zeitgeist as educational documentaries and the VP looked at as an alternative way of living for a better society than the one we have today.

[Guest catsonearth]

Zeitgiest and the venus project get waaaay too much attention, in the bigger scheme of things they pretty much ripped all their ideas off of others before them, not saying i agree with the creators of these theories just repacking them in a very low production value way its astounding to me how popular Zeitgiest has gotten

 

i don't think it's a case of anybody coming out and saying "these are MY ideas, i came up with them and you should listen because I'M fucking awesome". ripping off is a harsh word to use. the goal of the zeitgeist movies isn't to take credit for someone else's work, it's to package the advancements in understanding gathered by the great minds of our time in a way that will help people connect the dots and make these leaps of understanding themselves. it's not about property and who came up with what, it's about saying "hey, this is what we used to think, this is what know now, let's try to update our lifestyle to reflect it". saying that something's getting too much attention...i just don't get it. how could it be getting too much attention? because people are focusing on zeitgeist instead of some random philosopher or scientist or theologian? they're all trying to get a message out, what does it matter who is delivering the message as long as it gets across? the goal is to speak to people in a way that they'll understand and if what they understand is a lo-fi youtube style video then that's how you have to present it to them.

[Dale]

 

It could be praised for hours as well.

 

List the positive attributes and I'll have a read

 

I'll just condense it into it saying that it is why we are so developed.

 

You don't leave me much to comment on.. nor do you seem very enthusiastic about saying we are so developed.

[Guest Rambo]

Zeitgiest and the venus project get waaaay too much attention, in the bigger scheme of things they pretty much ripped all their ideas off of others before them, not saying i agree with the creators of these theories just repacking them in a very low production value way its astounding to me how popular Zeitgiest has gotten.

 

it's more personal for me because i am sort of friends with dylan avery the guy who made loose change and the original zeitgiest stole a lot of his hard work and efforts without crediting him

 

you're massively, massively missing the point but oh well

 

edit. i was gonna say more but i've been beaten to the punch...

[GORDO]

It could be praised for hours as well.

 

List the positive attributes and I'll have a read

 

I'll just condense it into it saying that it is why we are so developed.

 

You don't leave me much to comment on.. nor do you seem very enthusiastic about saying we are so developed.

 

 

it is this system that has allowed technology to be so advanced, that has raised the standards of living everywhere in the world, it is this system that allows better balance of power and has given more freedom to a great deal of people. It has it's vices yes, but it also works.

[Guest Rambo]

it's all relative Gordo. We have no idea how advanced we could be had there been a slight difference in the past.

 

Don't forget, this is the system that employs 1000's of intelligent people to compete with each other in order to create slightly different types of toothpaste. There's ludicrous amounts of waste going on. Immeasurable amounts.

[Dale]

It could be praised for hours as well.

 

List the positive attributes and I'll have a read

 

I'll just condense it into it saying that it is why we are so developed.

 

You don't leave me much to comment on.. nor do you seem very enthusiastic about saying we are so developed.

 

 

it is this system that has allowed technology to be so advanced, that has raised the standards of living everywhere in the world, it is this system that allows better balance of power and has given more freedom to a great deal of people. It has it's vices yes, but it also works.

It works?

 

Over 25,000 children die every day around the world.

 

That is equivalent to:

 

* 1 child dying every 3.5 seconds

* 17-18 children dying every minute

* A 2004 Asian Tsunami occurring almost every 1.5 weeks

* An Iraq-scale death toll every 16–38 days

* Over 9 million children dying every year

* Some 70 million children dying between 2000 and 2007

 

The silent killers are poverty - (no money to your name as previously emphasised), hunger, easily preventable diseases and illnesses, and other related causes. In spite of the scale of this daily/ongoing catastrophe, it rarely manages to achieve, much less sustain, prime-time, headline coverage.

 

Remember, this system works and we should continue on this course! Agreed?

I find it incredibly fucked up to hear someone credit this system.

 

 

[awepittance]

Zeitgiest and the venus project get waaaay too much attention, in the bigger scheme of things they pretty much ripped all their ideas off of others before them, not saying i agree with the creators of these theories just repacking them in a very low production value way its astounding to me how popular Zeitgiest has gotten

 

i don't think it's a case of anybody coming out and saying "these are MY ideas, i came up with them and you should listen because I'M fucking awesome". ripping off is a harsh word to use.

 

when it comes down to directly stealing somebodies hard work video editing, paying hundreds of dollars to get old archives from news channels, dubbing music, composting i think it is most definitely stealing.

maybe you thought i was just talking about the concepts ( i realize now thats how i wrongly worded it above ) which i also think have been done to death by plenty of other far superior films but that isn't the only reason why Zietgiest pisses me off.

[GORDO]

It could be praised for hours as well.

 

List the positive attributes and I'll have a read

 

I'll just condense it into it saying that it is why we are so developed.

 

You don't leave me much to comment on.. nor do you seem very enthusiastic about saying we are so developed.

 

 

it is this system that has allowed technology to be so advanced, that has raised the standards of living everywhere in the world, it is this system that allows better balance of power and has given more freedom to a great deal of people. It has it's vices yes, but it also works.

It works?

 

Over 25,000 children die every day around the world.

 

That is equivalent to:

 

* 1 child dying every 3.5 seconds

* 17-18 children dying every minute

* A 2004 Asian Tsunami occurring almost every 1.5 weeks

* An Iraq-scale death toll every 16–38 days

* Over 9 million children dying every year

* Some 70 million children dying between 2000 and 2007

 

The silent killers are poverty - (no money to your name as previously emphasised), hunger, easily preventable diseases and illnesses, and other related causes. In spite of the scale of this daily/ongoing catastrophe, it rarely manages to achieve, much less sustain, prime-time, headline coverage.

 

Remember, this system works and we should continue on this course! Agreed?

I find it incredibly fucked up to hear someone credit this system.

 

the system has reduced poverty. it has raised the standards of living everywhere in the world. it works, because it allows people who need things (and can afford to) to get them.

[awepittance]

. Loose change is great I think. You should find that Loose Change has been credited by Peter in the end credits of the first film.

 

i didn't realize they were credited at all, at least that's something. It feels really odd to me when i saw parts of Zeitgeist that lifted like 10 entire minutes unaltered fron Loose change

 

this is the other really old movie Zeitgiest is based off of

 

 

Money Masters

 

another classic by Bill Moyers

 

 

i have a lot of problems with the way the information in Zeitgeist is compiled and presented, its missing a lot of important details and is a little bit schizophrenic in regards to its message. i guess ive just been a conspiracy nut way too long to see anything redeeming or new in the the film Zeitgeist (besides the inclusion of venus project promotions which is an odd divergence from other conspiracy videos ive seen)

 

my intention is not to enter the debate whether the theories presented in Zeitgeist are true, i just think some other conspiracy films fall through the cracks that really deserve to be watched and it kind of irks me to see how much praise zeitgeist gets. this will be my last post

[Guest Rambo]

I said earlier in this thread that the Zeitgeist 1 is pretty much irrelevant to what's going on now. That's not just me saying that btw, that's everyone else.

[Dale]

It could be praised for hours as well.

 

List the positive attributes and I'll have a read

 

I'll just condense it into it saying that it is why we are so developed.

 

You don't leave me much to comment on.. nor do you seem very enthusiastic about saying we are so developed.

 

 

it is this system that has allowed technology to be so advanced, that has raised the standards of living everywhere in the world, it is this system that allows better balance of power and has given more freedom to a great deal of people. It has it's vices yes, but it also works.

It works?

 

Over 25,000 children die every day around the world.

 

That is equivalent to:

 

* 1 child dying every 3.5 seconds

* 17-18 children dying every minute

* A 2004 Asian Tsunami occurring almost every 1.5 weeks

* An Iraq-scale death toll every 16–38 days

* Over 9 million children dying every year

* Some 70 million children dying between 2000 and 2007

 

The silent killers are poverty - (no money to your name as previously emphasised), hunger, easily preventable diseases and illnesses, and other related causes. In spite of the scale of this daily/ongoing catastrophe, it rarely manages to achieve, much less sustain, prime-time, headline coverage.

 

Remember, this system works and we should continue on this course! Agreed?

I find it incredibly fucked up to hear someone credit this system.

 

the system has reduced poverty. it has raised the standards of living everywhere in the world. it works, because it allows people who need things (and can afford to) to get them.

This is good in explaining further how this system just can not go on:

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[awepittance]

I said earlier in this thread that the Zeitgeist 1 is pretty much irrelevant to what's going on now. That's not just me saying that btw, that's everyone else.

 

 

well the parts in zeitgeist (that are influenced by Creature from Jekyll island and money masters) that address the federal reserve i would argue are more relevant right now than they have been in a while. Alot of people on the whole are starting go realize that our economy is possibly one giant ponzi scheme

[Guest Rambo]

I said earlier in this thread that the Zeitgeist 1 is pretty much irrelevant to what's going on now. That's not just me saying that btw, that's everyone else.

 

 

well the parts in zeitgeist (that are influenced by Creature from Jekyll island and money masters) that address the federal reserve i would argue are more relevant right now than they have been in a while. Alot of people on the whole are starting go realize that our economy is possibly one giant ponzi scheme

 

Yeah fair enough about the end of Zeitgeist 1. It was sort of an introduction to addendum, which is the one to watch. Zeitgeist 1 isn't needed at all.

[Dale]

I said earlier in this thread that the Zeitgeist 1 is pretty much irrelevant to what's going on now. That's not just me saying that btw, that's everyone else.

 

 

well the parts in zeitgeist (that are influenced by Creature from Jekyll island and money masters) that address the federal reserve i would argue are more relevant right now than they have been in a while. Alot of people on the whole are starting go realize that our economy is possibly one giant ponzi scheme

 

Yeah fair enough about the end of Zeitgeist 1. It was sort of an introduction to addendum, which is the one to watch. Zeitgeist 1 isn't needed at all.

Here's an interesting post made by Peter over on the ZM messageboards about this topic on Z1 and it's relevancy:

http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla...p;limitstart=20

 

"It saddens me when I see reactions like this, for without the sensationalism of "Zeitgeist, The Movie" none of this would be here. It was Zeitgeist, The Movie that Jacque and Roxanne saw which, in turn, got them interested in what I was trying to say, and brought us together. Now, You will notice that this site doesn't talk much about Z1 and that is because The Movement isn't about those aspects, per se. Yet, in effect, as long as the power systems are what they are, we are in alot of trouble. As long as issues like 911 and the history of false flag terrorism are kept silent and not recognized as a sick symptom of this system...we are in alot of trouble.

As long as religion maintains it false basis in history and perpetuates faith without logic... we are in alot of trouble. As long as people still have faith in the monetary system... we are in alot of trouble. The values of the culture must change. This is a reality that many are not giving enough thought to. While we do need to "bridge the differences" initially, we also need to realign people's value systems with natural order processes. This is very difficult. What we are trying to do here is the most complex social transformation in the history of mankind and if you think it is going to be as simple as building a new city and making some movies, you have another thing coming, I'm sorry to say. This is why we need SERIOUS dedication from a core group. I am working on the Teams now and, as I said, communication overrides everything at this point.

 

Now, back to my original point, I redid Z1 three times to beat off all the belligerent "debunkers" who cant read anything but an encyclopedia. If I had time, I could go point by point denoting the source and reasoning for the conclusions drawn in Z1 and, believe it or not, the religion section is the strongest of the whole work. While I am faced with counter dispositions and circular arguments with issues like the Income Tax, Mcfadden, the nuances claimed to be argued still do not touch the larger issues. There are hundreds of points made in Z1 and having a few in debate does not berate anything.

 

[and btw, as obvious as it should be, - that "conspiracyscience.com" site is the worst i have seen yet, made by people with a vendetta.]

 

More specifically, the beauty of Z1 is this: It pulled in all those people who tended to maintain an angry, irrational perspective within the distorted "us and them" type of world view, only to be transformed into seeing a real goal and positive direction with The Venus Project in the 2nd. In hindsight, even though Z2 was more "mainstream", Z1 was the real bridge... and Z3 will be another step.

 

I'm not detaching from anything and i hope you all understand this. We need angles from all sides, so we can cater to the widest possible audience. Some loved Addendum and hated "The Movie", and Vice-Versa. In turn, some will love Z3 and hate the other two... while some will hate Z3 and love the first one moreso... you see my point?

 

The best communication works from every angle possible to achieve common ground. I would feel embarrassed if my work was only targeted towards a set audience. As of now, i get emails from anarchists, ceos, moms, teachers, teenagers, elderly folks, phds and other diverse people, including reformed religious believers who no long entertain faith because of Z1.

 

This is success in such a regard and I hope you all see the power in it."

[Salvatorin]

As industrialization has spread and nearly erased all previous values, even in the poorest, fucked places in the world, the majority, if their life returns to safety and stability, they will associate a good life with money. Can you get the millions of poor people in urban areas that within their lifetime they will see the collapse of everything they know as TRUE? Especially the people who have suffered through things like hurricanes, how can you tell them that driving a car and having a steady supply of food from the superstore is going to inevitably be their downfall?

 

Actually getting someone to see past the lies that is our "civilization" is a suicide mission. In assuming this position of actually understanding what Humans are doing.....you are pitting yourself against (basically) all 6.7 billion people. "Human Conditioning" as stated previously, has put most of the world complacently consuming, losing any understanding of where we are going.

 

Think about it this way:

 

For some reason, our primeval ancestors set out and colonized the world fairly quickly (even America was most probably reached much earlier than we think, monte verde, lagoa santa); some kind of drive pushed people to live in some of the harshest places on this Earth.

 

At the moment, as stated before, we have reached a point of stagnation, and this global form of Capitalism is what is hindering us. What could happen is an analogy to what happened after the middle ages, having a second enlightenment. At least that is what these idealists would like. Unfortunately, the dismantlement of Corporatocracy will most likely come coupled with mass death and violence. And then we will be left with an anarchic mess, robbing us from the possibilities that could have been whilst there was somewhat of a world order.

 

Whether the people of the world support it or not, the way of life we have will fall (based on basic resource consumption), and we will either repeat the same mistakes, or finally do it right.

[lumpenprol]

After living in Shanghai for 3 years, the idea of bottled air sounds great - thanks watmm!

[Guest Betty]

Well, I have no money left. What have you guys done?