Autechre Autechre - Oversteps (WARP210) [The MegaThread]

[Draft78]

Sublimit .. that zone around 5:25 where the odd time meshes is one of the things that I would most like to rediscover in the autechre of the future

[YELLOW]

Nuane starts great but I don't love the last third of it. I'm fond of yuop, yjy ux, and r cazt

[cern]

You guys discussing tracks from other albums in the Oversteps thread.. That is a sign of that this album is pretty weak. 

Can someone here tell me one mindblowing track from Oversteps and why it is so good? 

[auxien]

5 minutes ago, cern said:

You guys discussing tracks from other albums in the Oversteps thread.. That is a sign of that this album is pretty weak. 

Can someone here tell me one mindblowing track from Oversteps and why it is so good? 

thread is 200 pages fuckin long m8

[may be rude]

32 minutes ago, cern said:

You guys discussing tracks from other albums in the Oversteps thread.. That is a sign of that this album is pretty weak. 

Can someone here tell me one mindblowing track from Oversteps and why it is so good? 

 

1. bass drop at 1:50 is an onset
2. insectoid jam
3. rob drums xylophone along to impossibly-taught string instrument as sean enters with bizarre, glitchy, power-brass, in the land of the gods
4. lovecraftian dream garden
5. good autechrean ambient funk
6. sitcom theme song from alien sea planet.
7. lushest bass texture in music history
8. sean and rob playing mario 2064
9. basically a classical piece
10. lynchian intermezzo
11. snake pit of meandering, distorted bass
12. generative with axe sharpener
13. funeral organ ceremony for alien snake royalty
14. orchestral bass distortion season finale

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by very honest

[Draft78]

wtf

if I were to be the editor of a dictionary of synonyms, under the heading mindblowing I would put Oversteps, Untilted, AE_LIVE.

At this point we need to understand what you mean by minblowing.

Oversteps is the most condensed Ae work in terms of inventions, of the infinite combinations of fugues and subplots, 11 years later, even today, when I listen to it I don't seem to listen to the same album. There is always a way to look at it from a new point of view.
Instead of describing a track, I will point out a single detail among the hail of things that falls in my ears: at the end of d-sho qub, choruses emerge that wink at Ligeti. But they are not common choirs, no. They are fucking autechre's choirs: they seem to be composed of unstable vocal particles, incomprehensibly amalgamated into a single sound. Every time those voices enter my vestibular nerve my mind is blowed. but what am I saying? All d-sho drugs my amygdala

Violvoic makes me strip, there is no doubt, but I am not sure that in 2028 I will still find something unexpected there. Oversteps is still a universe to explore, but it is a subtle exploration.

 

[cern]

7 hours ago, auxien said:

thread is 200 pages fuckin long m8

Yeah and 80% is about the hate of Known(1) m8

[X4creek]

18 hours ago, cern said:

Yeah and 80% is about the hate of Known(1) m8

not really? at least from what i've read of the thread (which is not *too* much I will admit)

[coax]

The first thing I like about Oversteps is they have a sort of avant garde atonal melodies thing going on, /at first/. But then like most good atonal things, over time, each track becomes instantly memorable and have their own (really) unique identities. Now even though they aren't really atonal, they sort of have that kind of effect imo. They become very beautiful, non-random and very melodic, especially as they age. I don't know the music theory behind the melodies but they don't sound like totally normal melodies. Tracks that have this the most: pt2hp8, qplay, O=0, st epreo, krYlon ... for starters. 

The production is very warm and dense. And tracks have this sort of gluey chewy feeling, and for some damn reason it's just /good/ and nice to listen to. The other thing I like about it is that it doesn't sound like any other ae album. Especially the percussion. In retrospect all of their albums have differnent mastering and sounds, but this one to me stands out as /very/ different.

I also love the atmosphere which for me sounds like a video game world, but I won't get into it here. I can sleep/rest to this album and feel this fuzzy warmth

[brian trageskin]

41 minutes ago, coax said:

I don't know the music theory behind the melodies but they don't sound like totally normal melodies. Tracks that have this the most: pt2hp8, qplay, O=0, st epreo, krYlon ... for starters. 

the melodies in these tunes sound "normal" and not atonal (as you put it) because they couldn't be further from being atonal. 

as far as i can tell, the chord progressions in these tunes are often very modal, when they're not plain tonal, and the same goes for the melodies. modal harmony/melody is the most harmonious sound you can get in our tuning system, hence why these melodies don't sound random at all but very "melodic" instead. i think

 

[coax]

34 minutes ago, brian trageskin said:

the melodies in these tunes sound "normal" and not atonal (as you put it) because they couldn't be further from being atonal. 

as far as i can tell, the chord progressions in these tunes are often very modal, when they're not plain tonal, and the same goes for the melodies. modal harmony/melody is the most harmonious sound you can get in our tuning system, hence why these melodies don't sound random at all but very "melodic" instead. i think

 

Good info, I don't know much about music theory. I did say they aren't really atonal but my point was, at least from my own experience, Oversteps has been called noodling or random and I could recognize that vibe myself, especially back in 2010 when I first heard it. Even though I liked it immediately, I hadn't learned and memorized the tracks, that happened much later. And this "confusion" I compared to some atonal pieces, some which I have done myself, where they get a unique expression because they do sound a little 'confusing' at first but then gain this uniqueness later because of that complexity. Other people probably have different experiences but this was mine, and the best I can explain it atm

[brian trageskin]

shit, i've misread your post, you didn't say the melodies sounded normal, you said they didn't sound totally normal. 

this is actually a very interesting point. my first guess is this has to do with melodic contour (https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/77119/what-is-melodic-contour). these tunes have rather jumpy melodies, meaning the notes are often widely spaced and they sometimes change very rapidly, which typically sounds alien, non-human, as playing such melodies on an instrument feels very unnatural (it's way easier for your hands to play notes that are close to each other), especially with such an accurate timing. so i guess there's a contradiction between the human/natural/organic feel of these modal sounds (and timbres imo) and the unnatural/alien speed and shape of these melodies, which explains why they don't sound totally normal.

obviously this is just me speculating without taking the time to properly listen and think, so chances are i'm gonna change my mind as soon as i look into this more closely lol.

[brian trageskin]

5 minutes ago, coax said:

Good info, I don't know much about music theory. I did say they aren't really atonal but my point was, at least from my own experience, Oversteps has been called noodling or random and I could recognize that vibe myself, especially back in 2010 when I first heard it. Even though I liked it immediately, I hadn't learned and memorized the tracks, that happened much later. And this "confusion" I compared to some atonal pieces, some which I have done myself, where they get a unique expression because they do sound a little 'confusing' at first but then gain this uniqueness later because of that complexity. Other people probably have different experiences but this was mine, and the best I can explain it atm

i think i know what you mean by atonal, i guess this has to do with the modal aspects of these tunes and the non-functional chord progressions (by that i mean the chord changes don't follow the typical patterns we're all familiar with). these particular tunes change key quite a lot iirc, and in sudden and unpredictable ways. as a result, it's hard to tell in which key we are often times. hence the "atonal" feel, imo. although the term atonal refers to something completely different, but that's just semantics.

[brian trageskin]

me irl when someone mentions music theory on watmm 

[auxien]

3 hours ago, coax said:

I don't know the music theory behind the melodies but they don't sound like totally normal melodies. Tracks that have this the most: pt2hp8, qplay, O=0, st epreo, krYlon ... for starters. 

idk music theory either but those tracks are not normal and totes fuckin great because they are AUfuckinTECHRE in the album OVERfuckinSTEPS

[toaoaoad]

Pretty much what @brian trageskin said. The melodies are all tonal/modal but some of these tunes shift modes/tonalities quite rapidly. It's basically what soloists are doing when they play over chord changes. The melodies sound weird as you described because they are generative (or at least that seems to be the likely case) so they're lacking the tendencies, intuitive or based on principle, that go into human melody writing, like interval spacing etc as BT already said. My guess is "the System" has all standard diatonic scales/modes programmed in, and the melodies are generated based on those parameters, but those parameters are shifting between tonalities, maybe randomly in some cases (Treale?) or in a more controlled manner (the key change in the middle of krYlon). Like on a lot of old keyboards where you can control the automated "accompaniment" to the rhythm track by switching bass notes. Or something like WolframTones . Of course I don't know the actual specifics of how their System works, but I get what's going on musically (theory-wise). 

Edited April 12, 2021 by toaoaoad

[Boxus]

I live in a place where it's perpetually hot and sunny, and I swear every time I wake up to an actual cloudy day one of the first things I think is "hey it's cloudy I should listen to Oversteps"

[coax]

Well, thanks for shining a light on that toaoad and trageskin, I was wondering what was going on exactly.

Anyway I started out liking ilanders, known 1 and see on see the most but ignored the latter half, then the latter half was revealed later on and now I like that more. Especially krYlon. I love the album.

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by coax

[brian trageskin]

11 hours ago, toaoaoad said:

Pretty much what @brian trageskin said. The melodies are all tonal/modal but some of these tunes shift modes/tonalities quite rapidly. It's basically what soloists are doing when they play over chord changes. The melodies sound weird as you described because they are generative (or at least that seems to be the likely case) so they're lacking the tendencies, intuitive or based on principle, that go into human melody writing, like interval spacing etc as BT already said. My guess is "the System" has all standard diatonic scales/modes programmed in, and the melodies are generated based on those parameters, but those parameters are shifting between tonalities, maybe randomly in some cases (Treale?) or in a more controlled manner (the key change in the middle of krYlon). Like on a lot of old keyboards where you can control the automated "accompaniment" to the rhythm track by switching bass notes. Or something like WolframTones . Of course I don't know the actual specifics of how their System works, but I get what's going on musically (theory-wise). 

i knew you'd come in at some point but tbh i was expecting you to explain in detail how my analysis was completely wrong and how the terminology i used meant something completely different from what i thought it meant. lol

as you may have noticed, i have a mild case of dunning-kruger when it comes to music theory. but the conversations we've had made me realize how little i actually understood/knew about the subject and how flawed my understanding was - which doesn't prevent me from repeating the same mistake and giving my opinion like i'm some sort of music theory god lol. old habits die hard.

speaking of music theory god

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by brian trageskin

[Draft78]

I'm not so sure that in the case of Oversteps there is a significant generative imprint: the pieces have such a concise structure and often thought according to a "song" criterion as the return to the previous motif, which suggests an arbitrary composition, note by note, parameter by parameter. In an interview they spoke of Overs. like the album on which they had absolute and capillary control over every single event, a statement that could be read in many ways, but which contributes to making me doubt a massive generative presence

[toaoaoad]

6 hours ago, brian trageskin said:

i knew you'd come in at some point but tbh i was expecting you to explain in detail how my analysis was completely wrong and how the terminology i used meant something completely different from what i thought it meant. lol

as you may have noticed, i have a mild case of dunning-kruger when it comes to music theory. but the conversations we've had made me realize how little i actually understood/knew about the subject and how flawed my understanding was - which doesn't prevent me from repeating the same mistake and giving my opinion like i'm some sort of music theory god lol. old habits die hard.

As far as I can tell you were pretty well on the mark this time, but you know I can't always be here to watch over you lol 

Anyway, I guess nobody besides the bros themselves know exactly how it was done. That's just kinda what I always suspected because of the melodic contours and all the "busyness" of the different voices. But that doesn't apply to all the tracks on the album. r ess, Yuop, Known(1), d-sho, maybe see on see, have less of that "randomness" sound to them or none at all, so I think the melody generating "tool" (assuming there was one) was only employed on some of the tracks.@Draft78 can you point us to that interview? 

Also, all this talk of randomness/generative composition - I'm not saying they just turned the system on and recorded it and then that was Oversteps. Much more likely they generated a bulk of material and then edited together the parts that they liked. 

They probably said something about all this in the AAA but it's been awhile since I read that and they were probably still pretty intentionally vague.

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by toaoaoad

[Draft78]

I will try to identify the interview, but it is not easy: 11 years have passed since Oversteps, and the interview could be from any of these ... I remember, however, that this stuck with me because that statement expressed, implicitly , that on the other albums the level of control would not have been total. However, it was a vague statement, it did not refer to a specific method (for example to the generative composition), but to the album as a whole, this therefore does not exclude that the generative aspect is also consistent in oversteps.

[Draft78]

“We wanted to have something where we could change, at the last minute, any detail or any event.”

https://www.tinymixtapes.com/features/autechre

[toaoaoad]

Quote

How much do algorithms figure into your compositions as of late?

Quite a lot. Algorithms are a great way of compressing your style. One of our strong points developed in the past is the concept of experimentation. A lot of people think we’re very improv-based, and it’s true to an extent. But if you can’t go back to that spark or moment where you’ve created something new and reverse-engineer it, it can be lost to that moment. Sometimes, we try to capitalize on acquiring that moment and re-using it again and again, or finding the essence of it and applying it in different directions. It has always been important to us to be able to reduce something that happened manually into something that is contained in an algorithm. Then the algorithm allows us to add a bit more flair or a bit more deviation that we would also do ourselves in a little script. Just a few slight tweaks can spin it out into all sorts of recreations. It’s a great way to spawn yourself if you like (laughs), and spawn your actions. It’s an addictive way to work. Programs like Max allow you to reduce these ideas to collections of numbers and scenarios that are recallable, cascade-able, even nest-able.

Quote

Other tracks are allowed to be more vociferous, making their own mark to a certain extent, and then you’ll get the bits that you like that weren’t expected and go back and see how it occurred and see if you can develop that further. 

Quote

Max is really brilliant because there are so many tiny modules you can nest within each other. So that’s a great starting point. But even back when Logic Audio was eMagic/Creative Logic, they had environments where you can patch delayed objects and repetitive objects together and pitch-changing objects. Before you knew it, you could create these cascading effects that gain a life of their own. We’ve been really into doing that for a long time now. Any bit of software that’ll afford you a little bit of algorithmic behavior without too much scripting and still quite a visual language if you like works.

 

So basically we're both right. Lol

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by toaoaoad

[auxien]

3 minutes ago, toaoaoad said:

recallable, cascade-able, even nest-able.

but is it washable?