ALIEN / PROMETHEUS / COVENANT - SPOILERS INBOUND!!

[bendish]

I enjoyed it...thats all i got

[oscillik]

Eugene, why don't you tell us how you really feel. 

 

The is-it-Walter-is-it-David was definitely amateur. And the weird thing it wasn't even a question as there was a tell with David's wound on his face, which they set up that it was obviously not Walter because Walter's skin would've healed itself quickly. So it wasn't even a secret that it was David....I just don't understand.

 

I'll still buy the DVD and watch it dozens of times. I'm a whore for Alien.

You're part of the problem.

[xox]

Assbender's acting was the only great thing in the movie. There was few good and lots of bad... But Prometheus had just 'bender and nothing else imo

[auxien]

 

I'll still buy the DVD and watch it dozens of times. I'm a whore for Alien.

You're part of the problem.

I know :(

 

Country roads

 

Take me home

[sweepstakes]

I don't really care but I agree that Prometheus is better.

[coax]

I don't mean to be the obnoxious contrarian, but jeez, I don't get the hate for Covenant. Somehow when I saw it, I felt like it was perfect in the sense that Ridley managed to combine Prometheus and Alien, while not forgetting the mythos of either one. Also it had a lot more energy than Prometheus, and was way creepier, which to me just separates the two movies and makes them interesting by themselves. 

 

The scene where you first see Shaw's body and the last scene where we realize it's David, were the most terrifying parts of the movie for me. In certain ways David is more scary than the Xenomorph. Shaw was alone on that planet with David (a nightmare I've had before), and instead of the happy adventure vibe at the end of Prometheus, you got that. It was great. 

I also love how played down the scene with the Shaw corpse reveal was. Very low key but shocking and stuck in my head and wasn't sure if they would bring it up again, but then it becomes a main part of the movie in the very final scene.

 

I don't get Eugene's point about David being less mysterious here. He's obviously more complex and has changed even more than in Prometheus, and he is artificial rather than human, so he's not turning into a serial killer scientist per se, he can be even more because he's not really a human. It's hard to describe but he's really a freak of nature, half artificial, half natural so you get even less predictability than a human. This is definitely more of a B-movie romp in terms of style, but I felt they asked the deep questions and hit the right tone and also gave some visceral scenes... Altogether I can't even think of any complaints, I thought it would be a lot worse when I heard they renamed it to Alien Covenant (as in doing fanservice)... Only seen it once, will have to stew on it a bit 

[oscillik]

I don't get Eugene's point about David being less mysterious here. He's obviously more complex and has changed even more than in Prometheus, and he is artificial rather than human, so he's not turning into a serial killer scientist per se, he can be even more because he's not really a human. It's hard to describe but he's really a freak of nature, half artificial, half natural so you get even less predictability than a human.

 

Is a construct a "freak of nature"? Where do we draw the line between a manufactured product, and product of nature?

[coax]

OK technically speaking everything is nature, but as humans we can still see where different parts came from. Some of david comes from humans, while other parts come from his machine duties (practical, whatever). we don't really know which is which or how it even works in reality, but he's a real beast and who knows what he can cook up with genetics (alien+). i have to wait a bit before i say anything more, because this is very fresh and i dont even remember the dialogue yet, so we'll see

[sweepstakes]

 

I don't get Eugene's point about David being less mysterious here. He's obviously more complex and has changed even more than in Prometheus, and he is artificial rather than human, so he's not turning into a serial killer scientist per se, he can be even more because he's not really a human. It's hard to describe but he's really a freak of nature, half artificial, half natural so you get even less predictability than a human.

 

Is a construct a "freak of nature"? Where do we draw the line between a manufactured product, and product of nature?

This question would probably give Ridley a boner.

[goDel]

My guess is, it would be an artificial boner. Or in coax terms: a freak of nature.

[Echolalia]

Good shout Coax. Sometimes it felt tense as. David has manifested himself to do what Weyland set out to do.

[oscillik]

My guess is, it would be an artificial boner. Or in coax terms: a freak of nature.

lol

 

what about the fingering though?

[Lada Laika]

 

My guess is, it would be an artificial boner. Or in coax terms: a freak of nature.

lol

 

what about the fingering though?

i'll do it

[oscillik]

 

 

My guess is, it would be an artificial boner. Or in coax terms: a freak of nature.

lol

 

what about the fingering though?

i'll do it

 

All duties have been assigned. Please make your way to Gateway Station to proceed. Thank you.

[goDel]

*plays the flute*

 

Edited July 5, 2017 by goDel

[auxien]

NSFW that shit man, damn. Fingering that shaft as he puts it up to his lips, lightly caress...

 

Anyway.

 

 

 

I don't get Eugene's point about David being less mysterious here. He's obviously more complex and has changed even more than in Prometheus, and he is artificial rather than human, so he's not turning into a serial killer scientist per se, he can be even more because he's not really a human. It's hard to describe but he's really a freak of nature, half artificial, half natural so you get even less predictability than a human.

 

Is a construct a "freak of nature"? Where do we draw the line between a manufactured product, and product of nature?

This question would probably give Ridley a boner.

 

This. Well, along with some Cialis. But definitely an interesting question, but I think it's a wasted convoluted mirroring of that question that was already inherit in the Alien from the beginning: the creature takes on aspects of its host organism, and is designed to do so that it can best adapt and overtake. This is essentially the same question, just approached through different foils/characters. To me, that's where Alien should've (and did, re: Alien 3) gone from the beginning: what is natural, what is a freak, is that which perverts the 'natural' still natural, and to what ends? Ridley missed that boat though and is instead creating an entire other set of movies to explore it from a more conventional sci-fi angle, with androids. The alien creatures, hell even the Engineers really, are just plot points in Prometheus and Covenant. Scott is still giving them some nuance, but there's no exploration of them as to what they mean, just what they are in relation to humans and engineers and androids, which is generally boring sci-fi imo, or at least boring in relation to the alternative. The aliens are just movie monsters now, which is fun, but doesn't hold a candle to what I always felt they represented and should've been more about.

 

Counterpoint to myself: Alien Resurrection explored this path partly but did so in utterly convoluted and ridiculous ways so I don't see it as worth really discussing.

 

I don't mean to be the obnoxious contrarian, but jeez, I don't get the hate for Covenant. Somehow when I saw it, I felt like it was perfect in the sense that Ridley managed to combine Prometheus and Alien, while not forgetting the mythos of either one. Also it had a lot more energy than Prometheus, and was way creepier, which to me just separates the two movies and makes them interesting by themselves. 

 

The scene where you first see Shaw's body and the last scene where we realize it's David, were the most terrifying parts of the movie for me. In certain ways David is more scary than the Xenomorph. Shaw was alone on that planet with David (a nightmare I've had before), and instead of the happy adventure vibe at the end of Prometheus, you got that. It was great. 

I also love how played down the scene with the Shaw corpse reveal was. Very low key but shocking and stuck in my head and wasn't sure if they would bring it up again, but then it becomes a main part of the movie in the very final scene.

 

I don't get Eugene's point about David being less mysterious here. He's obviously more complex and has changed even more than in Prometheus, and he is artificial rather than human, so he's not turning into a serial killer scientist per se, he can be even more because he's not really a human. It's hard to describe but he's really a freak of nature, half artificial, half natural so you get even less predictability than a human. This is definitely more of a B-movie romp in terms of style, but I felt they asked the deep questions and hit the right tone and also gave some visceral scenes... Altogether I can't even think of any complaints, I thought it would be a lot worse when I heard they renamed it to Alien Covenant (as in doing fanservice)... Only seen it once, will have to stew on it a bit 

I did like David here, but I feel he would've been better as a touch more in the shadows, and a bit more flawed of a character. And as I've stated elsewhere I think he should've died at some point because the prospect of super evil villain David android boy going forward is silly and boring.

 

I also generally enjoyed Covenant, though notice its many flaws (same with Prometheus basically). I enjoyed it mostly as a sci-fi action horror though, not as an 'Alien' film...imo, the Alien films work best as small, contained, tense, dealing with the intimacy and revulsion of learning of a truly alien being that is designed to both be born from and feed on your species. This obviously could get more militaristic and action centric, but it loses its magic when it does that, generally. Covenant tried to balance the two and honestly did better than Aliens did imo, but still was too centered on those big action set pieces.

 

A darker intimate take with David, Shaw, and his perverse love for her with the need to breed these aliens and desire to destroy what she wants to learn of (the engineers) could've been a great film, and there's a novelization coming of that span of time that I hope lives up to what I want from it (though of course I doubt it will).

[oscillik]

*plays the flute*

 

toot toot

Edited July 5, 2017 by oscillik

[Amen Lare]

Plot twist: aliens are conventionally intelligent, can speak coherently and up for a civilized dialogue.

 

So yeah, alien: "'cuse me, i was totally scared as fuck, then this bitch wouldn't let me rest peacefully"

 

"this is how we propagate, sorry, can't do anything about the way imma born, nature's a weird bitch"

 

"you people are cruel disgusting fucks, what about ecology"

 

"i do shit and piss, this is how - specially for auxien"

[coax]

auxien nice post. i didnt know there is a novel coming of that time period, that's great, will add that to list of things to watch for.

I agree with you that it's not really explored, it's more sort of hinting at it with dialogue. david talks about how weyland wasn't worthy of his creation, and all the other dialogue but then walter says "if one note is off the whole symphony breaks down" or something like that to david, so i was trying to figure out what david is and how to characterize him.

like is he actually "evolving" or is he just broken and malfunctioning? there was also this thing in the same scene with walter above where david couldn't remember the right author of something

 

i got kind of half an 'apes with bazookas' sentiment and half evolving into something new, mixed in with some technology randomness and what it means, what is creation? unfortunately i have to see it more times to make more comments

my overall experience and IMPRESSION was positive, at the time

 

btw oscillik is a freak of nature

Edited July 5, 2017 by coax

[auxien]

"i do shit and piss, this is how - specially for auxien"

pls tho 

 

I agree with you that it's not really explored, it's more sort of hinting at it with dialogue. david talks about how weyland wasn't worthy of his creation, and all the other dialogue but then walter says "if one note is off the whole symphony breaks down" or something like that to david, so i was trying to figure out what david is and how to characterize him.

like is he actually "evolving" or is he just broken and malfunctioning? 

Yeah, that subtle hinting and implications between the spaces and actions are what was and is amazing about the original Alien. Ridley/screenwriters tried it here and there but often it wasn't quite the same. This interaction was a little too on the nose, but it worked and didn't detract necessarily. It just could've been a lot more creepy/implied....

 

evolving=broken, though, in some roundabout way, innit? Maybe that's more the case when it comes to androids/AI where the evolutionary process can be replicated and re-run many times faster than in normal evolution (ignorant layperson speculation here obviously)

[Guest]

[oscillik]

lol

[xox]

lol brilliant

[Nebraska]

this film ruined what little i already thought of the alien franchise. 

 

i mean seriously.... wtf was that crap? the stupid flashback of the "builders" getting bombarded with the alien virus.

 

garbage

Edited July 8, 2017 by Nebraska

[Guest]

haha that scene. that medieval farmer / Babylon 5 style mashup was hilarious