oscillik Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 in response to the question "and android based their os off of osx no?", my statement was factually correct. android is linux-based. OSX is unix-based. the linux kernel was originally a recreation of the unix kernel (or the MINIX kernel, to be precise) which doesn't have the commercial license that unix does. GNU/linux is the linux kernel i mentioned in the previous line with additional tools which turn it into a usable OS. Android runs the Linux kernel (monolithic kernel) Mac OS X runs the Mach kernel (microkernel) handy figure to show differences as you can see, the structure of the kernel is different, so to say that they are similar because "Linux is a recreation of UNIX" is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaini Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 i'm well aware of the differences between a monolithic kernel and a microkernel. i think our disagreement stems from the fact that i'm approaching things from a 'user experience is everything' perspective, and you're approaching things from an 'OS architecure is everything' perspective. neither is probably completely correct. let's just agree that we're both huge fucking nerds, because i'm all out of piss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscillik Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 i'm well aware of the differences between a monolithic kernel and a microkernel. i think our disagreement stems from the fact that i'm approaching things from a 'user experience is everything' perspective, and you're approaching things from an 'OS architecure is everything' perspective. neither is probably completely correct. let's just agree that we're both huge fucking nerds, because i'm all out of piss. ahh if we're talking user experience, then what the operating system is based on doesn't matter to the end user. but again, Jules asked a rather specific question relating to specifics about what the operating system was based on...so to answer his question required going into detail about the operating system that the average joe shouldn't really give a fuck about (and most don't, as you have very rightly said). but if we're going to talk about user experience, then the GUI comes into discussion...and even then, Mac OS X cannot be compared to Linux because Linux based distributions use X while Mac OS X uses their own weird thing called Quartz. While you can run GNU/Linux based GUI orientated applications in OS X (for example, running the xeyes app as a very rudimentary test), you have to run them inside of X which itself is kind of wrapped around a Quartz window frame. (edit: and Android doesn't even use X at all) and i would definitely be the first to admit that i'm a lonely computer geek that has nothing better to do with his time than to sit on WATMM arguing the finer points of the differences between a microkernel and a monolithic one, while i wait to get tired enough to go to a single bed and curl up in the foetal position. not saying you're one of those, i'm just saying that i know for a fact i am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscillik Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 i wish i had charming good looks like that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rambo Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 PHONES ARE GAY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscillik Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 PHONES ARE GAY PHONES ARE HELL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 lol, that was a fascinating read though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaini Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 but if we're going to talk about user experience, then the GUI comes into discussion...and even then, Mac OS X cannot be compared to Linux because Linux based distributions use X while Mac OS X uses their own weird thing called Quartz. within linux, both gnome and KDE have their disciples. and they have drastically different ways of doing things. and that's without mentioning fluxbox/blackbox and the variants, or sawfish, or compiz (if you like fancy windows 7-esque stuff) or a big pile of other ones... X really only provides the tools, it's just the start. ...and it's perfectly possible to work within linux, unix, or MAC OS without ever encountering a GUI. people were doing it for fucking years and years with regards to unix. not saying you're one of those, i'm just saying that i know for a fact i am. UI/user experience is something that fascinates me and always has :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rambo Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 lol, that was a fascinating read though. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 no prob. Rambo in a tech thread is tops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscillik Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 within linux, both gnome and KDE have their disciples. and they have drastically different ways of doing things. and that's without mentioning fluxbox/blackbox and the variants, or sawfish, or compiz (if you like fancy windows 7-esque stuff) or a big pile of other ones... X really only provides the tools, it's just the start. oh yeah, the various different window managers / desktop environments that you can run on a Linux based distro are laws unto themselves, and even then within those window managers / desktop environments you can add stuff like compiz as you say, which complicates things even further. as you've very rightly said, X just gives the tools to actually put some things on the screen. UI/user experience is something that fascinates me and always has :) in this sense we share a hobby - i've always been interested in different operating systems, particularly from a UI perspective. the only major OSes i haven't been able to tinker around with have been OS/2 Warp 4 and Solaris. i'm sure you've probably got virtual machines set up so you can play about with the likes of Zeta, and OPENSTEP, and even Rhapsody. again, the only reason i went off on a cunt-condescension rant is because of being called out on something. i'm no expert on the intricacies of kernels, but the little i do know is factual. i personally have a soft spot for BeOS (those tabs are still so nice) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaini Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 you can order a solaris dvd for free yknow... kinda pointless these days i know, but it's still nice to have the builds of chrome OS coming out these days are very nice. i'm running it in a VM, but it is something i could see myself using every day on a netbook to post on watmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 in response to the question "and android based their os off of osx no?", my statement was factually correct. android is linux-based. OSX is unix-based. the linux kernel was originally a recreation of the unix kernel (or the MINIX kernel, to be precise) which doesn't have the commercial license that unix does. GNU/linux is the linux kernel i mentioned in the previous line with additional tools which turn it into a usable OS. Android runs the Linux kernel (monolithic kernel) Mac OS X runs the Mach kernel (microkernel) handy figure to show differences as you can see, the structure of the kernel is different, so to say that they are similar because "Linux is a recreation of UNIX" is wrong. Actually OS X doesn't use a microkernel, nor does it use strictly Mach. Instead it uses XNU, which is a hybrid. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscillik Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 you can order a solaris dvd for free yknow... kinda pointless these days i know, but it's still nice to have the builds of chrome OS coming out these days are very nice. i'm running it in a VM, but it is something i could see myself using every day on a netbook to post on watmm. i've been running a Hexxeh vanilla build on SD card for my EeePC. I like it lots, but i've always had trouble with this netbook having really low volume output when running a Linux based distro. finally got it loud enough under Crunchbang Linux, but it's ridiculously quiet on Chrome OS. if i could sort out the volume issue, i'd probably run it exclusively on there. it is just perfect for what i use my netbook for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscillik Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 in response to the question "and android based their os off of osx no?", my statement was factually correct. android is linux-based. OSX is unix-based. the linux kernel was originally a recreation of the unix kernel (or the MINIX kernel, to be precise) which doesn't have the commercial license that unix does. GNU/linux is the linux kernel i mentioned in the previous line with additional tools which turn it into a usable OS. Android runs the Linux kernel (monolithic kernel) Mac OS X runs the Mach kernel (microkernel) handy figure to show differences as you can see, the structure of the kernel is different, so to say that they are similar because "Linux is a recreation of UNIX" is wrong. Actually OS X doesn't use a microkernel, nor does it use strictly Mach. Instead it uses XNU, which is a hybrid. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU that's a bit of a headfuck well there you go, i was wrong about Mac OS X running Mach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GORDO Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 ffs windows invented apple which in turn gave birth to linux when the company split in three by court order (linux is nothing but a MacOS clone with 3d graphics), they are all owned by samsung, get your facts straight y'all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaini Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 you can order a solaris dvd for free yknow... kinda pointless these days i know, but it's still nice to have the builds of chrome OS coming out these days are very nice. i'm running it in a VM, but it is something i could see myself using every day on a netbook to post on watmm. i've been running a Hexxeh vanilla build on SD card for my EeePC. I like it lots, but i've always had trouble with this netbook having really low volume output when running a Linux based distro. finally got it loud enough under Crunchbang Linux, but it's ridiculously quiet on Chrome OS. if i could sort out the volume issue, i'd probably run it exclusively on there. it is just perfect for what i use my netbook for other people seem to have this issue as well. audio drivers are definitely linux's (don't fuckin start) weak point. pulse/ALSA is some impenetrable shit. off the top of my head, it would be nice if someone developed something similar to NDISwrapper (which was a *very* useful tool in the earlier days of wireless) for audio, which would just wrap around a windows audio driver binary blob in a similar manner to the way NDISwrapper did for wireless drivers. it's a workaround but it would work without a huge system overhead. XNU is an acronym for X is Not Unix. lol, if that isn't a big ol fuck you to stallman i don't know what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baph Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 So I was reading the last few pages and I was all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hahathhat Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 steve wozniak is much more interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baph Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 steve wozniak is much more interesting RMS or Woz? FIGHT!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Woz no question. Stallman is just a dirty hippy who doesn't shower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 And Woz saves the thread. Woz is the new Hitler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hahathhat Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 steve wozniak is much more interesting RMS or Woz? FIGHT!! woz would be good to hang out with. stallman would be good to troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 And Woz saves the thread. Woz is the new Hitler. LOL woz would be good to hang out with. stallman would be good to troll. trooph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltoi Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 lol wankel engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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