ganus Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 There's a difference between bugs and animals, probably the reason. is it just the size? the ease with which they're killed and swept away? if humans were 100x bigger than pigs, would it be different? please elaborate on your reasoning, i'm genuinely interested. soap is poisonous to a wide variety of small invertebrates and single-celled organisms. when you use soap, you do so to deliberately kill such creatures. presumably you use soap. where do you draw the line? you draw the line between choice and need i've got an ant infestation right now, and i didnt feel good about poisoning them, but i fucking did it last night anyways. i want to let everything leave peacefully, and so on, but it crosses the line from choice into need when they're fucking biting you when you're laying in bed, and crawling out of your synthesizers and speakers when you turn them on. EDIT: but on topic, this pig business is incredibly sickening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerWaschbar Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 I think at this point it is very important for all of us to at least rally behind cannibalism. We all suffer from the desire to consume human flesh do we not? And then, are we not brothers/sisters? Let us all love, and eventually compete to eat each other in a glorious spectacle. A treat for whomever is around to observe. Edit: And for whomever wins of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerWaschbar Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Anyways, how horrible a thing is death anyways? It's the only thing you are guaranteed in life. The suffering before death is probably the worst of it. If not, then you have something awful to look forward to either way, so why sweat it? Edit: I think it is dependent also on climate. We simply could not survive without eating meat in a cooler environment without the comforts of artificial, that is to say mechanical, heating. Which is dependent on oil which should be factored into your evaluation on the carbon load of your lifestyle. From the actual basic impact on environment to the modern cultural impact on peoples who control oil rich nations on whom the agriculturally based life style is reliant. If I was to give up an animal product it would be dairy before meat. Our physiology has evolved to be much more efficient from meat consumption than it has from animal milks, which are hugely 'unnatural'. That is to say, that you could not encounter these foods without the de-wilding and exploitation of animals, with the exception of maybe enjoying a cheese that had been curdled in the stomach of a fawn whom you had taken the life of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wake Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Anyways, how horrible a thing is death anyways? It's the only thing you are guaranteed in life. The suffering before death is probably the worst of it. If not, then you have something awful to look forward to either way, so why sweat it? Not sure how this relates to the thread, but I tend to agree with you. I'm much more concerned with needless suffering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerWaschbar Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 I don't want to appear callous or cold. I did make a point of saying that I did feel for the pigs in this. The reality is that at least in death we should feel proud of these animals, for having had to of been brave enough to accept the opportunity to take what is a beautiful step for a life-form. It's not all bad is it? It is an end filled with fear, but it is still a wild exploration of the unknown. Those pigs, despite being 'animals' understand more of our eventual future than we do now. I respect that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamos scorcho Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 yeah, somebody define consciousness here. we're all plants, basically. different levels of complexity, but in the end life is life. whether or not you want to take it for yourself should be a moment to money judgement based on what you understand. i wouldn't eat unless you need nourishment. don't waste life. and the perfect person would probably be a vegan. there's not really any way around it. based on what values/morals, i don't know. more or less common sense morals, from my point of view. the least you can do is shop consciously for human non factory farm meat. edit: for the record if i sound preachy i'm not. i've been making pepperoni sandwiches with this Boars Head pepperoni that i have left in the fridge. i feel guilty because i know for a fact they don't follow humane slaughter procedures. i'm pretty sure at least after some vague research. these are things that we should probably strive for, to be conscious and elevate!!! what sets humans apart from the other animals is that we can choose to deny our genetic programming. the pigs don't think on that level. for all intents and purposes, one pig is the same as another. losing a pig is like losing a man in mario -- the next one will be the same, until you run out. pretty late to reply but my argument has been this for a long time, i stand by it: to aliens we would be like pigs. we imagine ourselves to be at the top, or above pigs. in relation we may be. in relation to something else we may not be. we have to take into account what we would want to be treated like by a power greater than us. if we were a pig we would not want to be treated poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpenprol Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 You guys have this all wrong - it's a scene from the upcoming live-action version of Maus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Acula Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOvwc8_QXiY let the rabbits wear glasses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpenprol Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 apparently this is the Korean version of balut: once the pigs have been underground for a few years, they'll dig them up and spread them on toast, goes well with kimchi. They should have used those "big dog" quadrupedal robots to push the pigs in, would have been appropriately sci-fi. I just realized that no matter how terrified they are, pigs seemingly can't widen or roll their eyes. Guess that's why god gave them horrific shrieks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tec Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 why did i watch that first thing on the weekend, oh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokoon Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 i'm so fucking angry right now, but not because of the dead pigs. i just typed a fuckload of text in the response box, but then accidentally closed the tab... here's a shorter version: why bother with suffering? what is suffering really - does it even exist? pigs shriek, but some people also shriek when they see a spider. there is discomfort and there are different ways to express it and to overcome it. one of the ways to overcome it is - death. and i believe that the controversy of that video is strongly connected to the fact that those pigs are obviously going to die. if they were just tossed in the pit, left there for hours, all the shrieking, and then returned to their daily routine - would you care so much? would you care at all? so when it comes to death, the pigs aren't any more nor less entitled to "live" than we humans are, same thing with ants, plants and rocks. even cars. that's how i see this world. we mourn the dead relatives and friends - but we also mourn our pets. we feel bad about a tree in our yard that has to get chopped down. and we are sad for losing a pebble on our way home, that we were carrying in our pocket as a memento. we also feel sad when we accidentally delete a file from our computer. it's all the same. from the observer's point of view - "death" is not just for people, it's for every single thing. it's not about suffering, it's about losing something, knowing you're never getting it back. some things are easier to replace than others, though, you can't generalize - some people in our lives can be more easily replaced than some pebbles, i can say that holds true for me. from the "dead's" point of view, there are really only 2 possibilities - either the existence ceases for the subject or it doesn't. and none of us know the answer to that. but yeah, i know, getting off-topic. my views, as described, make it very difficult to take vegetarians seriously. the ones that don't eat meat so the animals can live - not the ones that don't like the taste of meat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murve33 Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 i think a lot of people feel that if they don't eat meat and live a pure lifestyle blah blah that the world will cease to be violent, random, and messy. I just don't want to be connected to the hate. Also, I can dodge all of those e. coli breakouts. would you care so much? would you care at all? Yes I would, Kokoon. I don't care if people eat meat. I care that animals have to suffer in factory farms in the shittiest conditions imaginable so people can profit. If animals were killed humanely, I probably wouldn't even be vegetarian. So, I don't eat meat, not because I need animals to live, and not because of the taste, but because I don't feel that they should suffer. Can you take that seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yikes Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 we are the pigs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokoon Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 no i can't, i'm sorry. they suffer anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yikes Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 also shit like this gives peta unmitigated audacity to pontificate in gaudy hit you over the head type adverts as a long term veg/vegan i can say that i hate peta but not what they stand for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murve33 Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 no i can't, i'm sorry. they suffer anyway. No they wouldn't, how would they? And yea, me too Yikes. Peta goes about things the wrong way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokoon Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 no i can't, i'm sorry. they suffer anyway. No they wouldn't, how would they? And yea, me too Yikes. Peta goes about things the wrong way. you stopped eating pig meat, but they still got tossed in the pit and got buried alive. what exactly is the connection between you and those (now dead) pigs? obviously, your actions didn't save them from suffering nor death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yikes Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 no i can't, i'm sorry. they suffer anyway. No they wouldn't, how would they? And yea, me too Yikes. Peta goes about things the wrong way. you stopped eating pig meat, but they still got tossed in the pit and got buried alive. what exactly is the connection between you and those (now dead) pigs? obviously, your actions didn't save them from suffering nor death. dude be happy that you are unenlightened no need to act a fool while being an ostrich too! we know sadly we know how dumbed down the humaN RACE IS you are a prime rib example sonny i say we bury you alive in dirt when your time comes ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murve33 Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 no i can't, i'm sorry. they suffer anyway. No they wouldn't, how would they? And yea, me too Yikes. Peta goes about things the wrong way. you stopped eating pig meat, but they still got tossed in the pit and got buried alive. what exactly is the connection between you and those (now dead) pigs? obviously, your actions didn't save them from suffering nor death. We don't think our actions alone will stop the suffering of animals, but I and other vegetarians/vegans are not helping to perpetuate the suffering. It's part boycott, part I don't want E. Coli/Growth Hormone Meat. In a bigger picture, we are helping. Not vegetarians necessarily, but all people who refuse to eat factory farmed meat. Because of this demand for an alternative we now have organic food stores, where animals are free range. Factory farms are making no money on these people. --- Nah, cut it out Yikes. He just disagrees with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thepilot Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 The video was amazing. Horrid, yes, but I was transfixed. The most arresting portion for me was when it cut from the close-up of the burial site to the shot on the hill overlooking the grave. The distant wailing was somehow more disturbing to me. The sound of pure chaotic terror and disorganized madness welling up from that hole, travelling some distance to meet the ears of a worker is chilling. This, coupled with the woman's reaction, served to elicit a complex emotional response. Really strong sound/image combination there. harrowing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Adam Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 If people hadn't started eating meat there would be no pigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokoon Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 dude be happy that you are unenlightened no need to act a fool while being an ostrich too!we know sadly we know how dumbed down the humaN RACE IS you are a prime rib example sonny i say we bury you alive in dirt when your time comes ok? the fuck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KovalainenFanBoy Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Those pigs could have been be easily killed and turned into delicious pork meat. Pork meat is so tasty and good, why would you bury it? And if those pigs were infected or something like that, they could have just sent them to prisons and be fed to people in death sentences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokoon Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 no i can't, i'm sorry. they suffer anyway. No they wouldn't, how would they? And yea, me too Yikes. Peta goes about things the wrong way. you stopped eating pig meat, but they still got tossed in the pit and got buried alive. what exactly is the connection between you and those (now dead) pigs? obviously, your actions didn't save them from suffering nor death. We don't think our actions alone will stop the suffering of animals, but I and other vegetarians/vegans are not helping to perpetuate the suffering. It's part boycott, part I don't want E. Coli/Growth Hormone Meat. In a bigger picture, we are helping. Not vegetarians necessarily, but all people who refuse to eat factory farmed meat. Because of this demand for an alternative we now have organic food stores, where animals are free range. Factory farms are making no money on these people. yeah, i know. it's okay, in my eyes you're doing no harm (but no good either). i don't want to fight, though i'm up for a discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sprigg Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Also, I can dodge all of those e. coli breakouts. Wasn't there an e. coli outbreak involving spinach over here a few months back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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