have you read the bible?

[Redruth]

read the rules

[kaini]

considering your clearly huge ego, i find your preaching on eastern philosophy amusing.

[Redruth]

considering your clearly huge ego, i find your preaching on eastern philosophy amusing.

 

 

if someone says something is certain does that mean they have a big ego? buddha, christ = big ego? they said things for certain. read my post again, it explains about giving away control to truth and god (using the belief system in ones blood

no matter how sick it has become its sickness is all the more reason to nurture it back to health instead of forsake it. do we forsake our own child if it is sick, no.) what does love really mean, does it apply to all things or just what we want?

do we love a creature or a thing in this world if we miss use it and abuse it for our own wantings instead of absolute necessity?

[Ego]

What are you trying to say troon, that we need religions as a moral framework or something? That ethics water down if they're not supported by some ancient outdated book that tells people what's right and wrong? If so, what a load of bs.

 

I haven't read any religious books. I've been raised without religion, am not baptized etc. My high school was catholic but our religion teachers didn't really have the nerve to let us read in the bible or anything. So it were mostly just ethics classes. I think religion over here is pretty much dead to my generation.

[dr lopez]

.

.

you would be surprised what is still in that book and how important it is. we need a criterion, but it is only logical for those who do not follow the rules to discredit any that are present to them that conflict with their wishes.

(thats one of the reasons eastern beliefs are becoming so popular in the west is because they allow one to move more freely, to engage in 'earthly things', but even in eastern belief there have been more stringent rules that

have been slowly watered down over time just the same, all texts have been changed to degree) most of the actions and events in the bible throw people off, it's the simple rules 'behind' the words and their progression

within the book that is most important, absolute purity came first and so on.. its a chronicle, an example of what has happened up until this very second and every detail of the bad actions is there not for excuse but

rather for us to learn from as contrast.

 

the simple problem is that we like what we have built all around us now and even if it conflicts with simple moral framework we are apt to disregard that framework because

we prefer what we want, we are addicted to it like any other drug. all things in which we partake in have a lineage and effect other things. if that process is not entirely

'clean' or at least primarily clean then we get whats going on in the world today. it's that simple.

 

people don't like authority and even if it is the most genuine and pure form of it (like christ or buddha) there seems to be a majority in here (the earth) that will thwart it.

 

the path of least casualty, the harmless path it is called (eastern). do un to others as you would have done to you and the others are not just human beings, they are

all living things, harmlessness has no limit, we can pursue it as deeply as we care to. purity and perfection also have no limit, they are eternal and infinite, we

impose the limits with our fear and our inability to work together under our same rules for the common good, the rules are in fact the same for all

human beings.

 

rules simple - following them hard - work together, anything is possible

.

.

hey troon,

 

do you think it's possible to be a moral and ethical person without having read any canonized religious texts? Is it possible to learn these things through a completely secular society and still live a good life? If what I could understand from that poorly written statement, it seems you value what's really underneath the stories and fables of a book like the Bible, what you called the "simple rules." Can I just take the simple rules, which I grant you are important guides for living, rephrase them without any of the antiquated, sexist, xenophobic, and generally antediluvian ethical views of any ancient religious text, and then use them for myself and others? Seems like a no brainer! And it makes these stories entirely unimportant, and in fact limiting. I have nothing against metaphors and allegorical stories, but they are very dangerous when it comes to issues such as these. Any metaphorical language adds layers upon the meaning of a phrase, which, in turn, allows for several different interpretations. I think history has proven that this becomes a problem.

 

So if we've got this moral and ethical code, free from metaphor, gleaned and compiled from these ancient sacred texts, let us get rid of the useless bits! It's wasteful, inefficient, and dated. I think one of the reasons the Tao Te Ching resonates with many people today is precisely because it doesn't appear to be incredibly outdated because it's not filled with useless stories that have NO bearing on our lives today. It's trim and lean; it's not the perfect model, but it's closer.

 

Why can't you let go of these outdated concepts and move forward? Religion and theology isn't immobile, it evolves to fit adapting societies. A lot of religious thinkers today say that. I agree. So move theological thought forward beyond these outdated forms, called Christianity, Buddhism, etc. It's kind of sad how you seem continually unable to think analytically and pragmatically about these issues, and seem trapped within the pre-determined boundaries of religious thought that hasn't really moved forward in a considerable way since Aquinas and Erasmus and Spinoza.

 

I suppose it just appears as a giant, frustrating contradiction when presented with all your soap-boxing about "being free" and "allowing one to move more freely" and then seeing you unable to move beyond the idea of a "religion" as certain antiquated philosophy developed at least a millenium ago. Wanna get on that?

[OneToThirtySix]

I think I've decided to become a Druid, and make out with trees and stuff. What should I be reading?

[Redruth]

.

What are you trying to say troon, that we need religions as a moral framework or something? That ethics water down if they're not supported by some ancient outdated book that tells people what's right and wrong? If so, what a load of bs.

 

I haven't read any religious books. I've been raised without religion, am not baptized etc. My high school was catholic but our religion teachers didn't really have the nerve to let us read in the bible or anything. So it were mostly just ethics classes. I think religion over here is pretty much dead to my generation.

some people do need an example. religion is a crap word btw and only causes trouble. religion is for churches. spirituality and biblical thinking is for our community and our lives. there are not to be any churches, no walls

where one thing is spoken within and another without. our lives our to be so heavily steeped in knowing wrong from right that there is literally no question of what we should or should not do, thats what the garden

parable is all about. people get to stuck on whether or not these were actually events and loss the most important part, the meaning behind the words.

 

rules are not here to limit our experience, they are here to keep us safe (if they are the right rules). there are many pit falls in this experience, why do you think so

many people get sick all around you? this is not really what happens in life, do you see animals getting cancer and common colds all the time in nature? no.

thats because primarily the different species adhere to there specific set of rules (we call them instincts) self will has taken over ours in the majority of

cases.

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.

[kaini]

considering your clearly huge ego, i find your preaching on eastern philosophy amusing.

 

 

if someone says something is certain does that mean they have a big ego?

 

 

yes, unless you're talking about the scientific sort of verified (and i would add that quantum mechanics even throws that into doubt). people believing that they are right over everyone else is one of the primary sources of conflict in the world.

 

and i don't believe buddha or jesus dealt in certainties.

 

there is no absolute morality.

 

i consider myself a secular humanist. i do not believe in a god, but i think that i know the difference between right and wrong. i also think that my interpretation of right and wrong is probably different from your interpretation of right and wrong, but there are things we can agree on - most people can agree that killing someone is wrong.

[Redruth]

.

do you think it's possible to be a moral and ethical person without having read any canonized religious texts?

 

it all has to do with the stringency and the standard. some people think they are and they truly are not because the real guidelines are

unknown to them. we are all here to help every living thing and protect them, cross reference that with whats going on in the world today

and things become clear as crystal.

.

 

and i don't believe buddha or jesus dealt in certainties.

do some reading my friend

[Salvatorin]

I think I've decided to become a Druid, and make out with trees and stuff. What should I be reading?

 

Read the leaves, man.

or this: http://www.helium.com/items/355480-introduction-to-neo-druidism

but seriously, fuck neo-druidism, it's just cosplay.

make up your own definition of a druid and act it out.

[kaini]

and i don't believe buddha or jesus dealt in certainties.

do some reading my friend

once again, you show your ego. what is your source? badly-translated books that have had to undergo innumerable iterations of chinese whispers over the course of a thousand years or more?

[Redruth]

i only mean it in the kindest way

[dr lopez]

.

do you think it's possible to be a moral and ethical person without having read any canonized religious texts?

 

it all has to do with the stringency and the standard. some people think they are and they truly are not because the real guidelines are

unknown to them. we are all here to help every living thing and protect them, cross reference that with whats going on in the world today

and things become clear as crystal.

.

 

ehhh you try and write a well-informed response, honestly considering someone's angle, and making relevant historical references... and you get nothing in return.

 

but you missed my point... why did a couple people a long time ago "know the real guidelines" and what happened before them? WAS THERE SUCH A THING AS MORALITY???

 

 

ehhh fuck it. Read Genealogy of Morals.

[OneToThirtySix]

Read the leaves, man.

or this: http://www.helium.com/items/355480-introduction-to-neo-druidism

but seriously, fuck neo-druidism, it's just cosplay.

make up your own definition of a druid and act it out.

Druid: Does not read Bible anymore, enjoys IDM and internets, long walks down candlelit beaches, 25,000 miles, 15,000 dollars US OBO.

 

BTW, thank you for the sidethread opportunity.

[Ego]

some people do need an example.

There is no reason to use "biblical thinking" as an example. Teaching your kid what's right and wrong is certainly as effective and at least their morals wont be stuck in ancient times.

our lives our to be so heavily steeped in knowing wrong from right that there is literally no question of what we should or should not do, thats what the garden

parable is all about. people get to stuck on whether or not these were actually events and loss the most important part, the meaning behind the words.

I agree with dr lopez. These parables are outdated and are too open to miscommunication. The ethics of the non-believers have evolved, but a lot of christians are still quoting the bible to "prove" homosexuality is immoral.

rules are not here to limit our experience, they are here to keep us safe (if they are the right rules). there are many pit falls in this experience, why do you think so

many people get sick all around you? this is not really what happens in life, do you see animals getting cancer and common colds all the time in nature? no.

thats because primarily the different species adhere to there specific set of rules (we call them instincts) self will has taken over ours in the majority of

cases.

What? How is adhering to some moral code related to disease? Animals get sick and die from diseases all the time. Our life expectancy keeps on growing, cancer has always existed, this is making no sense to me.

[kaini]

rules are not here to limit our experience. rules simply are not here.

there may be conventions imposed by society, but there really are no rules.

you can do whatever you want to as long as you're willing to accept the consequences.

morality is a different thing. you can *choose* not to do certain things because you think they're wrong. but that's not the same thing as rules, is it?

[Atop]

**sarcasm** wow, this thread went downhill fast, surprisingly!

 

so where do our own experiences fit in with any of these texts?

 

what about our own lives being sacred?

 

how about we pay more attention to them?

 

write your own sacred texts....

 

a personal understanding of anything that happens in our lives is most likely more valuable than anything a person can read in any book....

 

derp

[kaini]

so where do our own experiences fit in with any of these texts?

 

they're like emoticons on watmm. they're stuff that is used frequently enough and accepted frequently enough that they're generally regarded as good ideas. i.e. killing is wrong. stealing is wrong. they're a shorthand for memetics that are widely accepted. the ten commandments are really just ten very old memes.

 

write your own sacred texts....

 

a personal understanding of anything that happens in our lives is most likely more valuable than anything a person can read in any book....

 

damn fuckin right

[Redruth]

.

why did a couple people a long time ago "know the real guidelines" and what happened before them? WAS THERE SUCH A THING AS MORALITY???

those people were listening to something that did know and was comunicating to them (not a person)

 

the garden is just an isolated area within the earth, like a womb. outside its safe zone the world was even worse then it is today just in a different

way with less population. it takes awhile to understand all this in the book but it is there.

 

then those whom were inside the womb came out (were forced out cause face it, would you want to leave a paradise beyond all definition?)

and intermingled (against gods timing) with the world to spread (help with) a kind of antidote to stop the way

things were done so destructively outside the 'garden'.

 

the evolutionists and the creationists bicker and bicker without realizing this simple fact. however it does not change the fact that

in the beginning (hundreds of thousands of years ago) everything did come from god. (that part would take me more

then a internet forum to describe 'why', and really has no answer in 'words' to begin with because the answer is only communicated

outside this dimensional universe (like an unsolvable equation until the answer is made allowed to come into thought, do you think

we really are in control of anything? no, although our choices to subvert right for wrong (to listen) still is part of the 'mixture' or 'formula' in

a certain way). remember, anything is possible and what we think we think or believe is not always what it seems. this world

is truly one of deception straight down to its core, first we must wake from the sleep of its deception to understand its ways, for

proper perspective.understanding the original cause of the error is like trying to understand an alien from another dimension

if it does not allow us to understand it yet. everything has its timing and place set by that which has such power to set it but

humans want what they want on their own terms (kind of like new afx), we all get into trouble with this at

least occasionally.

.

.

 

 

edit: don't get distracted by 'time' and its events and miss the essence of what is being said by the words. we so often say that the story

does not fit our time lines of history and thats true because that vary fact is there to distract us from the inner meaning of the

teachings. step outside of time, outside of space, this is where the real answers are ..in our hearts. sometimes we just

need.. a small spark to ignite the flame!

.

.

[chenGOD]

.

why did a couple people a long time ago "know the real guidelines" and what happened before them? WAS THERE SUCH A THING AS MORALITY???

those people were listening to something that did know and was comunicating to them (not a person)

 

the garden is just an isolated area within the earth, like a womb. outside its safe zone the world was even worse then it is today just in a different

way with less population. it takes awhile to understand all this in the book but it is there.

 

then those whom were inside the womb came out (were forced out cause face it, would you want to leave a paradise beyond all definition?)

and intermingled (against gods timing) with the world to spread (help with) a kind of antidote to stop the way

things were done so destructively outside the 'garden'.

 

the evolutionists and the creationists bicker and bicker without realizing this simple fact. however it does not change the fact that

in the beginning (hundreds of thousands of years ago) everything did come from god. (that part would take me more

then a internet forum to describe 'why', and really has no answer in 'words' to begin with because the answer is only communicated

outside this dimensional universe (like an unsolvable equation until the answer is made allowed to come into thought, do you think

we really are in control of anything? no, although our choices to subvert right for wrong (to listen) still is part of the 'mixture' or 'formula' in

a certain way). remember, anything is possible and what we think we think or believe is not always what it seems. this world

is truly one of deception straight down to its core, first we must wake from the sleep of its deception to understand its ways, for

proper perspective.understanding the original cause of the error is like trying to understand an alien from another dimension

if it does not allow us to understand it yet. everything has its timing and place set by that which has such power to set it but

humans want what they want on their own terms (kind of like new afx), we all get into trouble with this at

least occasionally.

.

.

 

 

edit: don't get distracted by 'time' and its events and miss the essence of what is being said by the words. we so often say that the story

does not fit our time lines of history and thats true because that vary fact is there to distract us from the inner meaning of the

teachings. step outside of time, outside of space, this is where the real answers are ..in our hearts. sometimes we just

need.. a small spark to ignite the flame!

.

.

 

 

lol

[Redruth]

/thread