JAZZ - THE THREAD

[Guest Akiak]

Nice to see some jazz appreciation here

 

This performance I found a while ago is fantastic:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qisdzWPiLwA

[th555]

Yes John Zorn is great.

[hoggy]

for good measure:

Why does Jazz remind me of that part of a busy day when you have everything from the day swimming round your head in fragments? Also reminds me of conversations that drift around and ramble

 

I'm a complete newbie with Jazz sub-genres, does anyone know what specific style this is ?

 

Sometimes it's strange because it has a kind of detached thing - even the melody in something bright and relaxed and cheery like this has some kind of thing where it wont land anywhere, it keeps moving around and almost never makes up it's mind, but in a way that to me almost seems to say that it's in favour of keeping things up in the air? To me that's so unlike rock and dance where the whole thing is so often focussed to a particular point of attention

 

Am I way off or is this close to how you Jazz fans feel about it?

Edited March 9, 2014 by hoggy

[Guest murphythecat8]

well the whole point of jazz is to improvise variation on a basic theme so it wont stop fooling around because thats the whole point!

 

Jazz is so avst, it took me 1 year full time to explore every era, every artist, theres a lot of amazing stuff underneath tons of boring sessions.

[delet...]

truth. But then you've absorbed it all, what do you do then. I've spent many years asking that question. I do like what listening to it does to my musical brain though, i can hear more sophisticated orchestration in my imagination, focus on faster lines, n'stuff.

 

I really should get back into listening to it, or any music.

[Guest Akiak]

truth. But then you've absorbed it all, what do you do then. I've spent many years asking that question. I do like what listening to it does to my musical brain though, i can hear more sophisticated orchestration in my imagination, focus on faster lines, n'stuff.

 

I really should get back into listening to it, or any music.

Well I suppose the next step is actually playing jazz, which is probably one of the most satisfying things for the musical brain. Fortunately i learnt how to play the sax at an almost decent level when i was younger and less lazy than now, and just playing over some really simple jazz standards is still a lot of fun.

[hoggy]

I feel that funk and jazz are ways of making music different that are really distinct from metal, punk, hardcore, where some music is different by negating, funk and jazz seem to affirm in a different way

 

Like if they are rebellious personalities, it's like funk gets dirty, jazz gets crazy and the other ones I mentioned get angry and obnoxious, somehow dirty and crazy seems more successful than angry and obnoxious. Maybe they are all a kind of looseness

 

Or maybe I'm so steeped in anti type music, that's the only way I can understand other kinds of music. Like I can't enjoy straight happy and relaxed music, it has to have some other element, like music that is so happy it's manic

 

(btw I don't know any jazz or funk but I want to - a lot of my favourite music has some funkiness or jazziness to it - it gives it personality and charisma maybe, but there's often something I can't quite relate to in jazz and funk, I'm not sure what)

[Guest AsylumSeaker]

 

Doco on Thelonious Monk directed by Clint Eastwood. Yes, Clint Eastwood Clint Eastwood.

[Guest AsylumSeaker]

(btw I don't know any jazz or funk but I want to - a lot of my favourite music has some funkiness or jazziness to it - it gives it personality and charisma maybe, but there's often something I can't quite relate to in jazz and funk, I'm not sure what)

 

I broke through by learning about the artists, by watching docos and reading books, etc. Interesting lives, interesting as fuck.

[Guest AsylumSeaker]

Learning about how the music evolved is a way to understand what it is and what it all means. I don't find it's something I can appreciate in a purely musical sense - there's more going on than just the notes and rhythms, it's really an expression of something and it helps to understand the context of that expression by learning the history and the personalities.

Sorry about triple posts, but I apparently don't have permission to edit my earlier posts...

[hoggy]

I see why Larkin called Monk the elephant on the keyboard, he hits the keys so hard they seem to resonate in a really piercing way

 

He reminds me a LOT of Wesley Willis - the heavy handed style, the slurred speech and peculiar mannerisms. Only four parts in to the documentary but I wouldn't be surprised to find out he was schizophrenic

[spratters]

 

Doco on Thelonious Monk directed by Clint Eastwood. Yes, Clint Eastwood Clint Eastwood.

 

You should watch Bird. Film by Clint Eastwood about Charlie Parker. It's actually my favourite film ever.

 

GET IT!

[delet...]

Yeah, i liked monk when i was just starting on my jazz journey, but bird really is the man. Less disjointed but 'cool' plonky plonk, more burning riffage.

[LimpyLoo]

I see why Larkin called Monk the elephant on the keyboard, he hits the keys so hard they seem to resonate in a really piercing way

 

He reminds me a LOT of Wesley Willis - the heavy handed style, the slurred speech and peculiar mannerisms. Only four parts in to the documentary but I wouldn't be surprised to find out he was schizophrenic

He is schizophrenic. And he also revolutionized jazz.

 

When I first heard him I thought he was garbage. Then I realized that I simply wasn't understanding what he was trying to do.

[Guest murphythecat8]

yeah monk had mental problems.

 

Zappa's album The Grand Wazoo with the song blessed relief really opened my eyes to jazz:

 

 

 

 

But I really brokethrough with the title song Ole-coltrane. The theme, the drum intensity, the coltrane solo, the flute, the two bass's playing at the same time. This is the song that really opened my eyes to jazz. I used to do electronica back then, and I drop everything soon after discovering jazz and started playing saxophone.

There's no other musician able to say so much in a solo than Coltrane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rnN67Y7_lg

 

as For Bird aka charlie parker, when I discovered him, I was amazed by him. I'm a alto player, but after a while, I kinda grew tired of him. I love him, but cannot listen more then 20 minutes in a row. Theres a lot of jazz that makes me this kind of feeling. I love it, but in small dose. Coleman hawkin and chet are two that I can only take in small measures, but still love them!

I realize that most stuff from the 40's early 50'S, I can only listen in small measures. What they were doing awas outstanding, especially Bird with Diz, so avant garde, but the lenght of the song really limit musical possibilities. The only possibility is:

a fast theme, then solo, then repeat the theme, song end...

Edited March 12, 2014 by murphythecat8

[LimpyLoo]

Yeah, i can't listen to bird either (i appreciated him for longer than monk though, but in a more shallow way). But if i wanted to pick up tips for learning bebop 101 on an instrument (if they were a casual newb to jazz probably miles would be the start), that's where i'd recommend people go. I don't have much of a passion for coltrane, well except for giant steps. I can understand his worth as a player but not a bandleader. Especially later in his career.

 

1) Late-era Coltrane is some of my favorite art on the planet. Shit is transcendant. For the last 6 years I've been learning to (among other things, of course) sound and play like Elvin Jones. I have Elvin Jones in mind whether I'm playing guitar or writing a folk song or playing a synth solo or playing drums or sequencing drums. He is the end-all-be-all in my book.

 

2) Bird is--to me--the sort of craftsman all musicians should aspire to be. I spent my high school years working through the Omnibook and caught a glimpse inside his (very elegant) brain. Bird deserves all the hype that surrounds him and more.

[Guest murphythecat8]

 

Yeah, i can't listen to bird either (i appreciated him for longer than monk though, but in a more shallow way). But if i wanted to pick up tips for learning bebop 101 on an instrument (if they were a casual newb to jazz probably miles would be the start), that's where i'd recommend people go. I don't have much of a passion for coltrane, well except for giant steps. I can understand his worth as a player but not a bandleader. Especially later in his career.

 

1) Late-era Coltrane is some of my favorite art on the planet. Shit is transcendant. For the last 6 years I've been learning to (among other things, of course) sound and play like Elvin Jones. I have Elvin Jones in mind whether I'm playing guitar or writing a folk song or playing a synth solo or playing drums or sequencing drums. He is the end-all-be-all in my book.

 

2) Bird is--to me--the sort of craftsman all musicians should aspire to be. I spent my high school years working through the Omnibook and caught a glimpse inside his (very elegant) brain. Bird deserves all the hype that surrounds him and more.

 

yeah me too, for me the 60-65 coltrane era is THE most powerful, transcendent, profound music ever been created. Anyone who says otherwise simply dont know that period. I love coltrane so fucking much. Theres a few artist I feel like I have a relationship with, coltrane is one of them.

Elvin jones is the man. Probably my favorite drummer of all time. My favorite jazz drum moment is in ole. the way he repeat over and over is hi hat just blow me away everytime. Its so delicate so damn powerful and intense. magic

agree for bird.

Edited March 12, 2014 by murphythecat8

[delet...]

I really shouldn't dash posts off in the narrow space between getting up and racing to work. So i fired up the PC again to delete it. But then come home to find that it's been quoted. It's a shame cause it doesn't really express the effect that these artists had on my life when i encountered them, nor how it probably influenced my musical brain for the better.

 

nwae, whatever. /goes for a cry (probably shouldn't post right before bed either. heh)

[hoggy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rnN67Y7_lg

 

strange shifting inconclusive moods - wistful, resigned, hopeful, crazed, relaxed, frustrated...

[Guest AsylumSeaker]

 

 

Doco on Thelonious Monk directed by Clint Eastwood. Yes, Clint Eastwood Clint Eastwood.

 

You should watch Bird. Film by Clint Eastwood about Charlie Parker. It's actually my favourite film ever.

 

GET IT!

 

 

Oh yeah, I've seen Bird too, and I enjoyed it.. though I wished Monk were in it :P

 

 

I see why Larkin called Monk the elephant on the keyboard, he hits the keys so hard they seem to resonate in a really piercing way

I like how when he gets bored of using his fingers he'll bang on the keys with an elbow.

 

Some bass player or somint said of Monk "I've seen guys who play on the white keys, and I've seen guys who play on the black keys, but I ain't seen nobody who played between the fuckin cracks!" Haha..

 

But then I guess that bassist never played in the Arkestra:

 

[Guest murphythecat8]

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rnN67Y7_lg

 

strange shifting inconclusive moods - wistful, resigned, hopeful, crazed, relaxed, frustrated...

 

you listen to it from begin to start? what do you mean?

[hoggy]

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rnN67Y7_lg

 

strange shifting inconclusive moods - wistful, resigned, hopeful, crazed, relaxed, frustrated...

 

you listen to it from begin to start? what do you mean?

 

 

no, I just listened to 30 seconds here and there to get an overall feel, and that was the feeling I got - shifting feelings (within each 30 seconds I mean) - it's not a criticism, that was just my first association

 

although listening from the beginning, this piece at the beginning has a more consistent emotion - severity, conspiracy, hurry - I can't help but think of a sneaking chase scene

[Guest murphythecat8]

never listen to music this way, thats my only advise. You can never know and understand the musicianship if you listen 10 seconds here and there by skipping.

 

You just started a thread about music criticism!!! You cannot critic any piece of art by doing this. You have to at least listen to 10 minute in a row to have a feel to what the artist is trying to say.

[LimpyLoo]

Just think of it as acoustic IDM.

[hoggy]

never listen to music this way, thats my only advise. You can never know and understand the musicianship if you listen 10 seconds here and there by skipping.

 

You just started a thread about music criticism!!! You cannot critic any piece of art by doing this. You have to at least listen to 10 minute in a row to have a feel to what the artist is trying to say.

 

not trying to critique!!

 

but you're right I'll listen to it through when I have time