vertsk8er419 Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 who's to say you wouldn't adopt the same mentality growing up like this young man did? we're only the product of our environment... if what you're implying is true, he was a victim from birth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sup Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 maybe he didnt now she was 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 who's to say you wouldn't adopt the same mentality growing up like this young man did? we're only the product of our environment... if what you're implying is true, he was a victim from birth. we're a product of many things, there are no "onlys" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vertsk8er419 Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 who's to say you wouldn't adopt the same mentality growing up like this young man did? we're only the product of our environment... if what you're implying is true, he was a victim from birth. we're a product of many things, there are no "onlys" i considered this man, but didn't think anyone would get specific about it. i use the term 'environment' very loosely, thus covering these "many things"... shit this is getting too abstract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpenprol Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 if only my mother had been impregnated with someone else's semen, I might not like Minecraft so much. I hate you, dadsemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 if you want to find videos of police/sherrifs/feds behaving badly and beyond the law you can find plenty of them. There isn't enough context in this video to decide whats going on (at least not yet for me). here is a video of a sherrif's deputy throwing man in a wheelchair on the ground for refusing to get up out of the chair when she asked him (the story goes, she didn't believe he was really paralyzed), he suffered multiple broken ribs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX2nCT-cOU8 another sheriff here kicks and throws a young girl to the ground face down http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipb_PeXOdT4&feature=relmfu this man was left in a coma after a police officer was responding to a tip, they identified him as a suspect and then after the fact realized it was the wrong person http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9llvTQn8v-c&feature=relmfu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sprigg Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I know thugs aren't the smartest people, but I find it incredible, and mostly questionable, that someone would run away, fire their weapon, then keep running. Why not just dead sprint and keep running? And he has to know he's outnumbered in the first place. If he shot at the police then they are obligated to fire back, but it just seems unbelievable. because he is ignorant and arrogant as fuck? i mean if dude was pimping out a 13 year old, he has issues. sounds like he wanted the thug life. and got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vertsk8er419 Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 I know thugs aren't the smartest people, but I find it incredible, and mostly questionable, that someone would run away, fire their weapon, then keep running. Why not just dead sprint and keep running? And he has to know he's outnumbered in the first place. If he shot at the police then they are obligated to fire back, but it just seems unbelievable. because he is ignorant and arrogant as fuck? i mean if dude was pimping out a 13 year old, he has issues. sounds like he wanted the thug life. and got it. yea well, he was victim to the setting from which he was born... you're neglecting 'the big picture' by leaving it at just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Al Hounos Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 FUCK that apologist white guilt shit. maybe he can blame his environment for a few petty crimes as a wayward youth, but pimping a 13yr old? what the fuck is wrong with you? nobody has to be taught that that is wrong. also, people that make excuses for thugs like him are really just exposing some roundabout racism of their own. "that poor nigger from the hood just didn't know any better..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpenprol Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 so...has he respawned yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I declare lumpenprol the winner of this thread!!! Also - my original post still stands: regardless of whether or not this guy deserved to get shot, more incidents like this will set it as an "us against them" kind of thing - and I don't mean race necessarily, I mean "the pigs vs the people" kind of mentality. Trying to pin this guy's life choices on his social environment is pretty ludicrous: unless you're implying that black, poor people believe it's ok to pimp out 13 year old girls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rumbo Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Live by the sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vertsk8er419 Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 Live by the sword. using a biblical verse to justify violence, that's a new one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rumbo Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 A bit cranky today, are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vertsk8er419 Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 just a bit irritable, i guess you could say i'm like super effected by my environment right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rumbo Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 local environment or just society in general? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sup Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 wanna know what for to do to get really revenge on the police? dont commit any crimes in 1 year.... cuz in the wire prope joe says what kills most police every year then guns?? getting bored!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vertsk8er419 Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 local environment or just society in general? local shit inevitably hyped by society in general Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 FUCK that apologist white guilt shit. maybe he can blame his environment for a few petty crimes as a wayward youth, but pimping a 13yr old? what the fuck is wrong with you? nobody has to be taught that that is wrong. also, people that make excuses for thugs like him are really just exposing some roundabout racism of their own. "that poor nigger from the hood just didn't know any better..." It's hard to believe at times, but the brain is incredibly plastic and malleable. You can become conditioned to condone or even carry out such aberrated offences by the environment you're embedded in. There is the so-called "common sense, lay person" belief that we all hold an inherent moral value system, and surely EVERYONE should know that this is wrong, or that is wrong, or you shouldn't do this or that. Unfortunately, human behaviour is not as simple as this. One cannot basically generalise human behaviour. Majority of academics in the social sciences would support this view - and it is not even controversial anymore... Stop looking to "inherent morals" because: 1. All moral values are SUBJECTIVE and not actually objective in any sense 2. Morals are LEARNED values - they are not inherited genetically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest umop_apisdn Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 People get shot and killed all the cot damn time. Whether it's cops shooting civilians, cops shooting cons, civilians shooting cops, cons shooting cops, civilians shooting cons, or civilians shooting cops...I don't give a good god damn unless it's my friends or family. Don't get me wrong...I'm not condoning shooting or saying I wish anyone gets shot, but for fuck's sake we've got BILLIONS of people in this world and we're all gonna die anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 FUCK that apologist white guilt shit. maybe he can blame his environment for a few petty crimes as a wayward youth, but pimping a 13yr old? what the fuck is wrong with you? nobody has to be taught that that is wrong. also, people that make excuses for thugs like him are really just exposing some roundabout racism of their own. "that poor nigger from the hood just didn't know any better..." It's hard to believe at times, but the brain is incredibly plastic and malleable. You can become conditioned to condone or even carry out such aberrated offences by the environment you're embedded in. There is the so-called "common sense, lay person" belief that we all hold an inherent moral value system, and surely EVERYONE should know that this is wrong, or that is wrong, or you shouldn't do this or that. Unfortunately, human behaviour is not as simple as this. One cannot basically generalise human behaviour. Majority of academics in the social sciences would support this view - and it is not even controversial anymore... Stop looking to "inherent morals" because: 1. All moral values are SUBJECTIVE and not actually objective in any sense 2. Morals are LEARNED values - they are not inherited genetically Are you implying then that the black community from where this kid is from taught him that pimping out 13 year old girls is the correct way to live one's life? All morals are subjective but most people agree that moral relativism has its limits (genocide is generally frowned upon, for example). Social scientists do agree that one cannot generalise, but at the same time they also tend to agree that individuals have some form of agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 FUCK that apologist white guilt shit. maybe he can blame his environment for a few petty crimes as a wayward youth, but pimping a 13yr old? what the fuck is wrong with you? nobody has to be taught that that is wrong. also, people that make excuses for thugs like him are really just exposing some roundabout racism of their own. "that poor nigger from the hood just didn't know any better..." It's hard to believe at times, but the brain is incredibly plastic and malleable. You can become conditioned to condone or even carry out such aberrated offences by the environment you're embedded in. There is the so-called "common sense, lay person" belief that we all hold an inherent moral value system, and surely EVERYONE should know that this is wrong, or that is wrong, or you shouldn't do this or that. Unfortunately, human behaviour is not as simple as this. One cannot basically generalise human behaviour. Majority of academics in the social sciences would support this view - and it is not even controversial anymore... Stop looking to "inherent morals" because: 1. All moral values are SUBJECTIVE and not actually objective in any sense 2. Morals are LEARNED values - they are not inherited genetically Are you implying then that the black community from where this kid is from taught him that pimping out 13 year old girls is the correct way to live one's life? All morals are subjective but most people agree that moral relativism has its limits (genocide is generally frowned upon, for example). Social scientists do agree that one cannot generalise, but at the same time they also tend to agree that individuals have some form of agency. Regarding your first statement - do you not think he has learned that there is an economic advantage to doing such an aberrated act? Therefore, this learned behaviour delivers a monetary "benefit" - it's an education and economic problem. We can speculate that if he might have came from a background full of abundance and "wealth", would he need to "pimp out" individuals of that age? I'm not defending this person's actions at all - I'm merely delivering a view point which focuses on how one learns a behaviour. There could be [i'm speculating] very complex insecurities and an inability to empathise with others in this person's character - again, such a mentality can be conditioned by the environment. Regarding your second statement - "individuals have some form of agency" - what do you mean by this? Knowledge on how to act and integrate in society is learned over time. Recent developments in neuroscience theorise on the notion of mirror neurons, and that we are soft-wired with such a neuronal network which enables a propensity for empathic actions to be influenced - however this needs to be nurtured. Although one may think that because we are social organisms, who thrive/flourish cognitively via social connections, if such social behaviour is not nurtured throughout childhood then a sociopath can be produced from an environmental standpoint thus chucking out a "natural form of morality argument" in the human brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 And by saying such things as "such a mentality can be conditioned by the environment" you are implicitly implying that poor (and in Bayview predominantly black) people are teaching their young that the pimping out of 13 year old girls is acceptable. I'm saying that this is one of those moral lines which is generally considered not acceptable. (13 being too young). Agency means the capacity for an actor to make choices and impose those choices on the world. Sociologists (and other social scientists) largely agree that individual actors have this capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpenprol Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 The whole situation is just so horribly racist... I mean the guy was pimping 13 yr. olds and died in a hail of police gunfire! How badass is that? If he was Al Pacino you'd be making a movie about him. Let's not let the fact that he was black obscure his accomplishments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 And by saying such things as "such a mentality can be conditioned by the environment" you are implicitly implying that poor (and in Bayview predominantly black) people are teaching their young that the pimping out of 13 year old girls is acceptable. I'm saying that this is one of those moral lines which is generally considered not acceptable. (13 being too young). But there is a reason(s) as to why this individual had taken this choice... and choices we make are influenced by many, many societal factors Agency means the capacity for an actor to make choices and impose those choices on the world. Sociologists (and other social scientists) largely agree that individual actors have this capacity. Yes... a capacity to make choices based on education/existing knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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