joshuatxuk Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Brutalizing the man and throwing his carcass around in the streets does not bode well for promises of a democratic government. Revolution is a nasty affair, even the oft idealized American Revolution was riddled with guerrilla warfare, harassment of fellow citizens, mob violence, and tar and feathering...which was actually quite a brutal form of public torture. killing people like bin laden and gaddafi saddens me mostly because i really would have liked to hear what they may have had to have said. i know that the chances are high that they would spout bullshit, lies or silence, but my curiosity is overwhelming. it's too bad they murdered him but what ever. he was a massive cunt. I know what you mean, it's always the surreal factor that these infamous figures are dead that interests me. Gaddafi has been around for such a long time it will be strange not having him in the background of world politics. I was born on RAF Lakenheath just months before the 1986 air strike that almost killed him. He had palaces, a guard unit of young females, comical outfits, gave ridiculous ideological speeches, recklessly started wars with neighbor countries. He was the quintessential larger than life cold war era dictator. ^ Gaddafi was casually spoofed as a public figure until this year. Before the uprising Italy was getting fairly cozy with him, the US had been becoming less hostile and even cooperative with his regime in the 90s and 00s. With massive oil reserves and a loyal government and army, it seemed he would of been a outspoken despot until his dying day, yet today he was found hiding in a drainage ditch, pleading for his life. I'm glad he's dead, but I too wonder what he would of had to say, and whether he would of been formally be charged for his past crimes. The American Revolution had some very nasty bits yes, but not a very comparable example. It wasn't in England, for one, and two, if Washington had captured King George, he would not have beaten him to death and paraded his corpse around American townships. Its about the message that doing something like that sends...the Dutch would have surely reprimanded the U.S. government, and France certainly would have went apeshit. Also, Burgoyne and Cornwallis weren't executed when they were captured...this is a bad example. and oh yeah, you're right~!!! the French Revolution! what a great democratic movement that was! Nevermind the fact that actual representation in the French government appeared more than half a century later after devastating the entire European continent and giving political ammunition for autocracies to be as brutal as necessary to ensure "democratic" uprisings fail. Who is being the romantic here? The French Revolution would be a better comparison (though none of these are good comparisons) to the brutality and chaos, especially the mob killing of Gaddafi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cazador Mod Unit Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 The thugs finished the guy after US drones and / or French planes attacked his convoy. Both countries are claiming ownership of the assassination right now. Ask yourself who is backing the 'mob killing of Gaddafi' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soloman Tump Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 [geography sidetrack] The thing that really surprised me was that the population of all of Libya is only something like 5 million.... thats tiny. Thats way smaller than London (8 million). And apparently its bigger in land mass than Alaska. [geography sidetrack] So it will not surprise me at all if Libya now splits down into smaller countries / tribal areas. These people were ruled by terror for the past 40 years, and now with their sudden "freedom" it feels highly unlikely that they will all get on and have the same vision of their future country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest theSun Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 for sure - i don't know why there aren't more people living in the sahara desert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyrex Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Whew! Thank God - I saw the images on TV and thought they had killed Carlos Santana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spratters Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Well at least they got rid of him before many of the worlds dirty secrets got out. Fuck knows the amount of knowledge that man had that could have come out if a trial was to happen. I don't quite agree with putting him on the from page of a popular newspaper like this though. NSFW - Gore I get my paper at the start of my lunch break and proceed to eat lunch. I don't wanna see this while I tuck into chicken salad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Z_B_Z Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Brutalizing the man and throwing his carcass around in the streets does not bode well for promises of a democratic government. yeah, i pretty much agree with this. but then again, people get treated like animals and theyre going to react like animals.. its that whole breaking the cycle of violence and brutality thing.. i found the images of them parading around the half dead dictator pretty sickening, but i guess it was inevitable It was only inevitable if you realise that they were just hired thugs. Killing a POW is not cool. It's murder and they committed a warcrime. And i'm extremely disappointed with any human that supports what happened, this isn't nazi germany we've morphed into is it? having lots of troubles with your line of thought here, but whether you think they were hired mercenaries or not, i doubt the outcome would have been different if they were proven to be just average citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cazador Mod Unit Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 people get treated like animals and theyre going to react like animals.. its that whole breaking the cycle of violence and brutality thing.. Good logic for not criticizing or doing anything about war crimes, ever. i found the images of them parading around the half dead dictator pretty sickening, but i guess it was inevitable It was not inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Z_B_Z Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 people get treated like animals and theyre going to react like animals.. its that whole breaking the cycle of violence and brutality thing.. Good logic for not criticizing or doing anything about war crimes, ever. i found the images of them parading around the half dead dictator pretty sickening, but i guess it was inevitable It was not inevitable. you didnt leave me much to respond to, but my comment was meant to be an observation on human nature, not what should or shouldnt be done about war crimes.. and yes, judging by the progression of events, this was indeed inevitable.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cazador Mod Unit Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 What is the link for the Official War In Libya Liveblog that makes you think you can provide such an opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Z_B_Z Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 hey, like you say, its just an opinion.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Npoess Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 R.I.P. Santana 1966-2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyrex Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 R.I.P. Santana 1966-2011 You riffing (pun intended) off my joke, or claiming ownership yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Npoess Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Nope.. Got it from: http://boingboing.net/2011/10/21/gaddafi-is-not-santana.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyrex Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Nope.. Got it from: http://boingboing.ne...ot-santana.html Ah, great minds think alike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Ph.D candidate in history.... come at me, bro EDIT: saw the Qaddafi footage, quite disliked it. I do not meant this in a racist/jingoist way but it reminded me of the frenzy primates get into. It's like a phylogenetic wormhole to the African steppes. Although it's unlikely, I hope that a Somalia situation doesn't go down e.g. militant Islamist regime like Al-Shabaab replacing one form of repression for another. its hard to compare it to a "legit" democratic revolution as of yet, because its still a small military elite overthrowing a dictator ....especially when you have the CIA and other such orgs involved, someone said it in here earlier, one only needs to look at the US or British-backed African coups over the past few decades to see how well these countries have fared. it's always a mindfuck for me to actually try and figure out why we invade certain countries with a full military campaign, why we only fund rebels and send NATO in to others, and why we just spark uprisings and black-ops stuff to subvert the power in a particular country. From a strategy standpoint it almost seems like a bad idea overall for a country like the US to ever use a full scale military invasion again of a country like Iraq and Afghanistan. With private armies like Blackwater on the rise, i see these full scale military operations as a thing of the past. In a way this will only disconnect the average person even further away from the real cost and horror of war. Eventually we wont even need a volunteer army, it's too costly as they say from a finance point of view. As Erik prince said about Blackwater in 2007, when you want a package to be delivered efficiently and quickly do you use the USPS or Fedex? What's the world going to be like when we have drones the size of a mosquito where the people controlling them don't even have to follow the already loose rules of engagement of the US military? edit: and if i want to be extra conspiratorial about it it's all too easy to think that the Bush administration's way of doing things was merely setting the stage for a public push-back against full scale military invasions. Compared to those overtly costly outings, these 'calculated' drone strikes by Obama seem to actually be ok with most people. I actually often hear people who are of the liberal persuasion knee-jerking against the Bush administration by saying things like 'Obama knows how to fight the war on terror intelligently' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delet... Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Brutalizing the man and throwing his carcass around in the streets does not bode well for promises of a democratic government. yeah, i pretty much agree with this. but then again, people get treated like animals and theyre going to react like animals.. its that whole breaking the cycle of violence and brutality thing.. i found the images of them parading around the half dead dictator pretty sickening, but i guess it was inevitable It was only inevitable if you realise that they were just hired thugs. Killing a POW is not cool. It's murder and they committed a warcrime. revolution is lawless. it'll be impossible to pin the execution (that's what it was) on anyone in particular. on the way to work this morning i heard obama making a smug victory speech... paraphrasing - "we have successfully achieved our objectives without having to deploy our own troops on the ground..." or something like that... what? the objective was to execute him and drag his lifeless body around the streets? the more i see of obama in these type of situations the more dangerous he seems. think he's getting drunk on power. We managed to have a nuremberg trial mate, we managed to convicted khmer rouge eventually. The guns for hire were funded and even partly trained by the new axis power's of the EU and the US. These people can stand trial no problems at all, we the people just need the will to let it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delet... Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 EDIT: saw the Qaddafi footage, quite disliked it. I do not meant this in a racist/jingoist way but it reminded me of the frenzy primates get into. This is exactly what i said to my brother when we were watching the footage. Like chimps when they get their bloodlust up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delet... Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 The thugs finished the guy after US drones and / or French planes attacked his convoy. Both countries are claiming ownership of the assassination right now. lol really, i have been unable to watch any news about this since it happened. It makes me feel physically ill. We have had soo many years now of completely wrong things taking place in our names, by our governments. It has reached saturation point in my soul. I need a few days just to grieve at the completely arsehole bullshit fucking mongtarded reality of it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delet... Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Brutalizing the man and throwing his carcass around in the streets does not bode well for promises of a democratic government. yeah, i pretty much agree with this. but then again, people get treated like animals and theyre going to react like animals.. its that whole breaking the cycle of violence and brutality thing.. i found the images of them parading around the half dead dictator pretty sickening, but i guess it was inevitable It was only inevitable if you realise that they were just hired thugs. Killing a POW is not cool. It's murder and they committed a warcrime. And i'm extremely disappointed with any human that supports what happened, this isn't nazi germany we've morphed into is it? having lots of troubles with your line of thought here, but whether you think they were hired mercenaries or not, i doubt the outcome would have been different if they were proven to be just average citizens. They certainly weren't average citizens of the town he was in. Which was full of the most loyal to the regime. They were just fucking scum, paid to do a very dirty job, for a bunch of sadistic voyeurs sitting in london and washington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delet... Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 As Erik prince said about Blackwater in 2007, when you want a package to be delivered efficiently and quickly do you use the USPS or Fedex? The problem with this is that the contractors over the past 10 years have been notoriously the opposite of cost effective. Of course then you won't need a standing army when there's no war. But i'm sure the new mercenary elite will manage to lobby the US government to maintain a level of military action high enough to keep their shareholders satisfied with the return on investment. I actually often hear people who are of the liberal persuasion knee-jerking against the Bush administration by saying things like 'Obama knows how to fight the war on terror intelligently' That's cause their childlike minds won't allow them to admit that they erred in choosing obama as the commander in chief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delet... Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 What's the world going to be like when we have drones the size of a mosquito where the people controlling them don't even have to follow the already loose rules of engagement of the US military? This is the scariest part about all this. We have opened ourselves up to a very nasty future. Technology will even allow for mind control in the future. And thanks to allowing government secrets in a time when we're not fighting a world war. We probably won't even know when the program is started to infect our implants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 well..there's critical thinking and analyzing of events and there's that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delet... Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 well..there's critical thinking and analyzing of events and there's that Yes, i get it. You don't have a conscience. Must make living in israel a lot easier for you eugene. Your ancestors though, are crying into their beards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR4 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 its honestly not that ridiculous, drones provide some sort of psychological relief from societies that employ them, no longer grieved by the fact that THEY are committing a violent act; instead its conveniently taken care of by drones. I mean this is turning into some Metal Gear Solid shit, i could certainly see only needing a handful of technicians and a good bit o' capital to run a military campaign a few decades in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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