SR4 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I have a feeling that we are watching the slow demise of the capitalist system. I for one welcome it and hope it will be replaced by something that values human needs before profit margins. but humans love them profit margins human greed will never die. i would worry more about a far more ruthless system being created than one of capitalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 human greed will never die a failure of thought change the system so that corruption/greed are not rewarded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR4 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 human greed will never die a failure of thought change the system so that corruption/greed are not rewarded greed and corruption aren't supposed to be rewarded in the current system. yet here it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AcrossCanyons Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 MO MONEY MO PROBLEMS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 human greed will never die a failure of thought change the system so that corruption/greed are not rewarded greed and corruption aren't supposed to be rewarded in the current system. yet here it is. No it is rewarded in this system - look at banking/robbery/the dumping of chemical waste to decrease costs/war etc... It depends on whether you can evade punishment if you are an underclass citizen. If you're in the top tier of society, you'll get away with many atrocious crimes. What I'm trying to say is we need to create an environment of abundant resources and in the process you effectively eliminate many areas of crime associated with theft or monetary related issues. Our system is based on scarcity, not abundance. Our system is based on private ownership of capital which is not evenly distributed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR4 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 human greed will never die a failure of thought change the system so that corruption/greed are not rewarded greed and corruption aren't supposed to be rewarded in the current system. yet here it is. No it is rewarded in this system - look at banking/robbery/the dumping of chemical waste to decrease costs/war etc... It depends on whether you can evade punishment if you are an underclass citizen. If you're in the top tier of society, you'll get away with many atrocious crimes. What I'm trying to say is we need to create an environment of abundant resources and in the process you effectively eliminate many areas of crime associated with theft or monetary related issues. Our system is based on scarcity, not abundance. Our system is based on private ownership of capital which is not evenly distributed. even if this could be possible, it certainly will not be possible without a great deal of bloodshed and suffering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 human greed will never die a failure of thought change the system so that corruption/greed are not rewarded greed and corruption aren't supposed to be rewarded in the current system. yet here it is. No it is rewarded in this system - look at banking/robbery/the dumping of chemical waste to decrease costs/war etc... It depends on whether you can evade punishment if you are an underclass citizen. If you're in the top tier of society, you'll get away with many atrocious crimes. What I'm trying to say is we need to create an environment of abundant resources and in the process you effectively eliminate many areas of crime associated with theft or monetary related issues. Our system is based on scarcity, not abundance. Our system is based on private ownership of capital which is not evenly distributed. even if this could be possible, it certainly will not be possible without a great deal of bloodshed and suffering. Why are you so certain on that? Is there only "one" single way things can pan out in your reality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke viia Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 How do you create an environment of abundant resources on a planet with limited resources, in a society which requires resources to develop technologies that may increase our ability to effectively use the available resources of the planet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR4 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Why are you so certain we will instantaneously transform into a utopia? That all of the men with the weaponry throw their hands up and say, "You know what, the jig is up. Let us help our fellow man and reject our wayward actions from the past couple of millenia." How do you create an environment of abundant resources on a planet with limited resources, in a society which requires resources to develop technologies that may increase our ability to effectively use the available resources of the planet? thats what Im saying. There are some utopians who sincerely believe that population must be drastically culled in order to be sustainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 How do you create an environment of abundant resources on a planet with limited resources, in a society which requires resources to develop technologies that may increase our ability to effectively use the available resources of the planet? I never said that the planet has an infinite supply of resources - what I mean by abundance is a plentiful supply for a given population to sustain our human needs. The World Health Organisation acknowledges we have enough food to feed the world - so does the UN. The statistics are undeniable. However, the way we govern and operate 'Spaceship Earth', in the words of Buckminster Fuller, is in an ecologically damaging way - because of our current economic system. This system is incredibly wasteful and doesn't set about to preserve or look out for the needs of every person on the planet let alone resources. I presume you're aware that this economic system we're in at the moment does not have a plan on how to manage resources intelligently other than leaving it all to the market (quite unscientific I might add). Why are you so certain we will instantaneously transform into a utopia? That all of the men with the weaponry throw their hands up and say, "You know what, the jig is up. Let us help our fellow man and reject our wayward actions from the past couple of millenia." How do you create an environment of abundant resources on a planet with limited resources, in a society which requires resources to develop technologies that may increase our ability to effectively use the available resources of the planet? thats what Im saying. There are some utopians who sincerely believe that population must be drastically culled in order to be sustainable. I never said the population has to be culled... Also - use your words wisely - utopia implies perfection and any sane person knows that such a thing can never be attained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke viia Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Indeed, I agree with most of what you just said. What I am wondering is if you have any ideas (or subscribe to any thoroughly thought-out plans) on what this new system might look like. It is all well and good to point out the flaws of the current system, and there are certainly many, but if you are truly talking about a radical overhaul of the way humans trade and interact/govern one another, I am interested to hear some possible solutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlyTowers Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 What's the cool place to go if you want to read serious economic analysis? Other than The Economist please, I visit the site almost daily but I won't give them money (they have enough). http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/ (general economic news; lots of discussion of financial sector criminality & failures of mainstream economics) http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/ (author of "debunking economics") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 *becomes bodybuilder survivalist* Don't get too bluky. For economic analysis: Paul Krugman's Blog is a good read. the world Bank blog on development is also very worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpenprol Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I think it's already been well established that the future economy will be based on Minecraft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 *checks account statements* wolfs the fuck out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delet... Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I like how everybody watches RT now. \nn/_ _\nn/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR4 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Im more of a fan of the Nigerian News Network we pick up near DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I like how everybody watches RT now. \nn/_ _\nn/ State-funded media - what could be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redruth Posted September 22, 2011 Author Share Posted September 22, 2011 beware the man who has nothing to lose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patternoverlap Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 *becomes bodybuilder survivalist* Don't get too bluky. I'm already too bluky. I'd probably just get my body down to a very efficient weight so I don't have to be consuming protein constantly to maintain it. Bread: so you think everyone will go along with a resource-based, everyone gets the same amount of everything type society? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 *becomes bodybuilder survivalist* Don't get too bluky. I'm already too bluky. I'd probably just get my body down to a very efficient weight so I don't have to be consuming protein constantly to maintain it. Bread: so you think everyone will go along with a resource-based, everyone gets the same amount of everything type society? a protein based diet is the best way to maintain it though. And yeah everyone will just get along - after some "re-education" that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cazador Mod Unit Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 For some reason I feel ashamed to admit that I read this daily as well... I can tell the articles are outrageous at least half the time but then I agree 100% with others. I have very limited knowledge of economy so would you please take a look at this piece and give your obviously superior insider opinion? http://wsws.org/arti.../euro-s23.shtml What about this, from George Soros which is dated October 13, 2011 http://www.nybooks.c...ro-have-future/ . . . . . . . . . . more news from the future WHOA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 The Soros review describes a political problem. The markets slump is worrisome if you're invested in the stock market. Is it even possible to have an insider opinion? Insider information sure, but an opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr lopez Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 this thread.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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