UK no likey the porn

[chenGOD]

What I'm saying is that you had to wait until your parents left the house to look at porn. That's not the same as you looking at it behind closed doors, where maybe they could have heard you watching "Julie's First BBC", that's you acknowledging that it's somehow shameful to do it, as you were obviously afraid of getting caught.

 

Porn is degrading to women, no matter what kind of spin you put on it. Some feminists try and say "oh we can take control of it and make it better". To which I say bullshit. You're still pandering to a well-defined market, which is males. And if you want an indication of where porn is going, look at the types of porn that have become popular. That throat-gagging, choking shit, or ass-to-mouth, or what have you.

Studies show that exposure to sexualized media leads to increases in sexual activity among teens. Now, speaking as a parent who wants his daughter to have a good shot at becoming something beyond a baby-making factory, I'd like for her not to get pregnant as a teen. I'm not saying that she's not gonna have sex as a teen, but watching porn certainly influences how people perceive sex. Less-risky behaviour, thank you (also reducing the possibility of STDs).

[delet...]

yeah but, masturbating in your own house to porn is hardly out in the public. forget the masturbating part. How about just looking at a picture of a chick with cock stuffed in all of her holes in the living room?

 

I kind of don't agree with preventing kids from watching porn.

 

Honestly, I enjoyed my forays into internet porn when I was a teen. Also, it was nice knowing I could just wait until my parents left and go on the internet. I didn't have to try getting a hold of dirty magazines or something.

 

And if we're talking pre-teens, I still don't see the big deal. I was naturally curious. I'd sometimes see things in movies that my dad watched, and it didn't mess me up.

 

Protecting children is all about making parents comfortable and has very little to do with protecting children. If we wanted to really protect children, we'd try to find out the things that are actually damaging to them.

 

We'll see how you feel about that when you're a parent. You knew it was taboo, so you had to wait until your parents left before you could go watch the porn. If it's not a big deal, why not have a wank in front of them?

Now, I'm not saying that 14 year olds have to be prudes....that would be rather hypocritical of me. I'm saying that pre-teens browsing porn is not something I can agree with, mostly cause young people's experiences haven't taught them enough about the world to understand what it's all about.

 

I was allowed to read 'the joy of sex' when i was quite young. Because i was still a long way from puberty, the only thing that it satisfied was my curiosity really. I don't think that something like that could ever demystified sex in the way that actually going out an meeting a willing partner does. And further i certainly didn't become sexualized to a greater or lesser extent through exposure to this book. Your peer group's attitudes towards sex, probably have a greater influence on how you'll end up going about it. Hence english public school boy wearing women's clothing and bumming one another.

 

The joy of sex is a far cry from swap.avi though.

 

Yeah i know. But the point i was making was to the fact that it would be viewed differently by someone pre-puberty. I'm not sure where i stand on this issue. I certainly would control my children's netting whilst they were young though. But certainly wouldn't want christo fascist government values anywhere fking near them.

[Root5]

What I'm saying is that you had to wait until your parents left the house to look at porn. That's not the same as you looking at it behind closed doors, where maybe they could have heard you watching "Julie's First BBC", that's you acknowledging that it's somehow shameful to do it, as you were obviously afraid of getting caught.

 

Porn is degrading to women, no matter what kind of spin you put on it. Some feminists try and say "oh we can take control of it and make it better". To which I say bullshit. You're still pandering to a well-defined market, which is males. And if you want an indication of where porn is going, look at the types of porn that have become popular. That throat-gagging, choking shit, or ass-to-mouth, or what have you.

Studies show that exposure to sexualized media leads to increases in sexual activity among teens. Now, speaking as a parent who wants his daughter to have a good shot at becoming something beyond a baby-making factory, I'd like for her not to get pregnant as a teen. I'm not saying that she's not gonna have sex as a teen, but watching porn certainly influences how people perceive sex. Less-risky behaviour, thank you (also reducing the possibility of STDs).

 

Oh I also did it behind closed doors. But I still don't by your claim that not wanting to be caught means that it's shameful. Take pooping for example. I don't want anyone to walk in on me pooping, but that ain't shameful.

 

I've also watched porn with friends, boys and girls alike. But with most people I'd probably just not bring up the subject, as one does in polite society.

 

Now you have another argument against porn, which is that it's degrading to women, and that's separate from the not wanting to be caught thing. But I'm not really buying it either. What are these studies? I'm sure if we looked at them we'd have some questions to ask.

 

And what do you make of women who look at porn? There are plenty.

[chenGOD]

 

The joy of sex is a far cry from swap.avi though.

 

Yeah i know. But the point i was making was to the fact that it would be viewed differently by someone pre-puberty. I'm not sure where i stand on this issue. I certainly would control my children's netting whilst they were young though. But certainly wouldn't want christo fascist government values anywhere fking near them.

Yeah and I have consistently said in this thread that government filtering is not the way to go, rather responsible parenting is.

 

What I'm saying is that you had to wait until your parents left the house to look at porn. That's not the same as you looking at it behind closed doors, where maybe they could have heard you watching "Julie's First BBC", that's you acknowledging that it's somehow shameful to do it, as you were obviously afraid of getting caught.

 

Porn is degrading to women, no matter what kind of spin you put on it. Some feminists try and say "oh we can take control of it and make it better". To which I say bullshit. You're still pandering to a well-defined market, which is males. And if you want an indication of where porn is going, look at the types of porn that have become popular. That throat-gagging, choking shit, or ass-to-mouth, or what have you.

Studies show that exposure to sexualized media leads to increases in sexual activity among teens. Now, speaking as a parent who wants his daughter to have a good shot at becoming something beyond a baby-making factory, I'd like for her not to get pregnant as a teen. I'm not saying that she's not gonna have sex as a teen, but watching porn certainly influences how people perceive sex. Less-risky behaviour, thank you (also reducing the possibility of STDs).

 

Oh I also did it behind closed doors. But I still don't by your claim that not wanting to be caught means that it's shameful. Take pooping for example. I don't want anyone to walk in on me pooping, but that ain't shameful.

 

I've also watched porn with friends, boys and girls alike. But with most people I'd probably just not bring up the subject, as one does in polite society.

 

Now you have another argument against porn, which is that it's degrading to women, and that's separate from the not wanting to be caught thing. But I'm not really buying it either. What are these studies? I'm sure if we looked at them we'd have some questions to ask.

 

And what do you make of women who look at porn? There are plenty.

 

I don't care if anyone walks in on me taking a shit. I pity them though.

You wouldn't bring it up (porn) in polite society? So only amongst the lewd and crude would you talk about porn?

 

You want studies well here are two (assuming the uploader allows pdf format) describing media influence on seuxality in teens and how relationships between teens shapes sexual activity.

Two more - one that discusses how viewing porn alters the brains of males and the effects it has on society (it does find that rapes in American have decreased, but it also cites the example of Japan - neglecting to mention that Japan is a country where shit is so bad they have to have separate subway cars for women so they can avoid being groped) and then finally one on how young people view porn - that is their attitudes toward it.

 

These are all peer-reviewed - some of them are a bit heavy on the stats side of things, but generally speaking are easy to read (if a bit long).

For demonstrations of power in relationships, read some Foucault.

Media Influence on Teens.pdf

teen relationships.pdf

Hegemonic Masculinity and Porn.pdf

Porn and the End of Eros.pdf

[Guest 277: 930-933]

Porn's an interesting thing eh? I think it's great. I don't care about the ISP thing as I'll always be savvy enough to get me some porn, so here's a diversion:

 

Higgins, when you say you're in favour of preventing young children from watching porn, what ages are you defining as 'young children'? Personally I was fascinated by sex from an early age, as early as primary school so about 10 or 11... UK lads around my age will fondly remember Eurotrash on Channel 4 and later on staying up on Friday night to watch the softcore porno's on Channel 5 I'm sure. Is 10/11 a young age? I never had anyone (parent or elder-wise) explain sex to me except for dialog with friends in school, so needless to say it was useless information as from the age of 13 every kid claims to have a massive cock and to have fingered everyone in school - so it wasn't like a "healthy" sex education or whatever. I remember being confused by softcore porn as a kid thinking "So you sort of lie there... and move back and forth... okay!" then moving onto hardcore porn and going "Oh shit there's a hole there! It makes so much sense now!"

Then shortly after it was more like "Oh right, you can make use of two holes down there, I understand"

Then "Oh right, the mouth is like another hole too, I can get along with that, sure"

 

Anyway, even with such a juvenile introduction to sex it hasn't like... damaged my view of the whole thing. I certainly don't just see women as somewhere to chuck my muck, regardless of how much I enjoy it. So I guess I'm wondering what the fear of porn is? Is it really damaging people? Has anybody explained this and I've just missed it?

 

I can't help but think it's some holdover from more puritanical times...

 

So let's have a serious discussion about porn! Who still watches it when they're in a relationship? I do.

Actually, sometimes one porn ain't enough, last night I watched some girl deepthroating on my left screen, while Velicity Von took two dicks on my right screen.

 

In case you're wondering, I'm pro porn.

 

Haven't read all of the replies so someone else might have brought this up.

 

Read an article in Scientific American recently about a study that was looking at whether or not porn was damaging.

Their findings came down to that it's pretty much only damaging to people who experience guilt because they watch porn and experience intrusive thoughts because of it.

There was also a mention that generally sex related crimes are in general significantly lower in countries that do not have strict laws about porn and prostitution but I'm not sure if it was only a correlation.

 

Just saw some of ChenGOD's posts and he's got some good points, study was obviously done among adults.

And the fucked up shit that sometimes goes along with manufacturing porn is a whole other story.

[Root5]

Yeah, so I very quickly skimmed those articles, so I apologize if I missed some important points, but I already have a lot of questions.

 

The last two are probably the most important ones you were referencing. They show a positive correlation between being exposed to sexual things, and wanting to have sex. So this is pretty obvious. It's hard to want something when you don't know what it is (even if you have a theoretical knowledge about it). I know my desire to have sex increased dramatically after I had sex, and I imagine this is a similar correlation but weaker, because watching porn isn't as enlightening as doing the deed. It works kind of like advertising. You don't know to want a coke until you see someone attractive enjoying it on tv.

 

But that's not about shaping society to be better for women, or any of those high-minded ideals you were gushing about earlier. This is just trying to shelter kids so they don't know to want sex. This isn't about making kids respect women more, or what not. This is about keeping them ignorant of sex so they don't know to want it yet.

 

The first paper actually had the opposite conclusion. It seemed to think that porn made men passive, and less interested in real sex.

 

Furthermore, these studies relied of self-reporting of porn use, which is something people are definitely going to lie about.

 

So I don't exactly trust these, and even if I did, none of them get to the point you were trying to make, which is that porn is bad for women and society in some way.

 

 

I don't buy that porn is degrading. It's fiction. If I write a book where one character does nasty things to another character, am I degrading the character that the nasty things are happening to? Am I degrading everyone who has some similarity to that character? How to you extract a moral from a story? Especially when most porn is just supposed to present a fantasy to be entertaining briefly. Fantasies do not necessarily lead to morals.

 

I'm not going to deny that some porn makes me uncomfortable. I'm very conventional in my tastes. I don't like anything violent. But I have an easy time avoiding it, and there is no slippery slope demanding more extreme gratification. I've read studies claiming that my experience is common, but as I've already stated I don't think you can just drop the word "study" and prove your point, so don't take that as evidence.

 

I don't even have a problem with people who get off on the violent stuff. It's just a fantasy. Maybe they really want that, but they can't always have it because not all women enjoy violent sex, so they like some other outlet.

 

Would you say Harry Potter is damaging? The idea of getting magical powers could be damaging if kids started believing it. But it makes for a nice fantasy. I fantasize about magical about magical powers about as often as I have sex fantasies.

[chenGOD]

You don't trust peer-reviewed studies? Self-reporting done in anonymous studies generally correlates pretty well to actual experiences. Why would you lie on an anonymous study about your porn habits? Do you feel that badly about it?

I didn't just drop the word study and leave it, I actually gave you studies to read. How about you give some back?

 

Fantasizing about magic isn't damaging, because magic isn't real. Fantasizing about rape is damaging because rape is real.

 

You think porn isn't degrading to women? Fine - you'd have no problem with your mom, sister, girlfriend being in a porn then.

Your ideas about porn are kind of naive i think. And here's the kicker - even if you avoid the violent stuff, and you only watch it on free sites, those sites are ad-supported by the companies which produce mainstream porn. There are like three companies which produce the majority of the porn out there (in North America) - so those three companies are also responsible for the violent stuff. So by watching free (ad-supported) porn, you're still supporting those companies who produce the violent gonzo shit.

[Root5]

You don't trust peer-reviewed studies? Self-reporting done in anonymous studies generally correlates pretty well to actual experiences. Why would you lie on an anonymous study about your porn habits? Do you feel that badly about it?

I didn't just drop the word study and leave it, I actually gave you studies to read. How about you give some back?

 

Fantasizing about magic isn't damaging, because magic isn't real. Fantasizing about rape is damaging because rape is real.

 

You think porn isn't degrading to women? Fine - you'd have no problem with your mom, sister, girlfriend being in a porn then.

Your ideas about porn are kind of naive i think. And here's the kicker - even if you avoid the violent stuff, and you only watch it on free sites, those sites are ad-supported by the companies which produce mainstream porn. There are like three companies which produce the majority of the porn out there (in North America) - so those three companies are also responsible for the violent stuff. So by watching free (ad-supported) porn, you're still supporting those companies who produce the violent gonzo shit.

 

Yeah, sure, I can give you a break about the studies. Sorry about that. But I do think the studies you gave don't support the actual point you were trying to make. And academia is huge and perfectly capable of producing questionable work.

 

Rape isn't always real. I can fantasize about rape (I'm sure I do every now and then, the mind is a wandering beast), and then not do it. I can't remember fantasizing about rape very much, but I fantasize about violence all the time. But I'm probably the most meek and passive dude I've ever met. It just has a way of gripping the mind.

 

And even though magic isn't real, acting like there's magic could be real. You could imagine a child who's convinced he doesn't have to work hard, because magic will sort things out eventually. I had thoughts like that when I was little. I think the kind of deus ex machina mentality is linked with fantasy a lot. Things will work out in the end. What about star wars. It would be horrible if everyone started trusting their instincts.

 

So yeah, I would not encourage anyone I know to work in porn, yet I'm happy to consume it. And also I'm sure the porn industry is just as ugly as any other industry.

 

I'm sure the working conditions are sub-par and I'm sure some people regret pursuing that line of work. But if we're going to deal with those problems, lets start with the food industry. Realistically I should be more concerned with my banana consumption than my porn consumption.

 

I think there are two issues here. One is, if you watch porn, and you view women and sexually lust after them, is that degrading to them? Are you somehow not viewing them as a complete person who deserves respect? I will defend to the death my ability to lust after women, and watch porn, while still preserving my desire and ability to be kind and respectful to them as humans.

 

The other is, whether my consumption of porn financially supports a bad industry. I'm not willing to say that my consumption of porn doesn't support a bad industry. But that's not a problem with only porn. People single porn out because they are ashamed of it, and biased against it. But I'm sure it shares many of the problems with other industries.

 

Out of curiosity, where do your bananas come from? I buy dole bananas because they're cheaper than fair trade ones, and that's definitely wrong of me. I'll confess that.

[Root5]

I'll add also that, I would feel weird and embarrassed if my mom went into porn, and it would defy everything I know about her.

 

If a friend or girlfriend wanted to make porn, though, I'd support her decision. I'd advise against going all out in big porn, but I'd have no objections to independent porn if that is what she wanted. I'd be impressed by her confidence and what not.

[Root5]

Sorry this conversation is turning into a jumble, but I just got confused by something.

 

You said that the sites I visit are ad-supported by larger companies. Why is that bad? The large companies I don't want to support are paying the smaller ones. Isn't that the way I want it to be? If it was the other way around, then that would be a problem. But as it stands, it seems like by visiting the more benign sites, and not clicking on the ads, I'm slightly draining the pockets of the larger companies, because they are paying for ads that I ignore.

 

Also, I'll just add that I respect your opinions, blah blah blah, no hard feelings, I'm enjoying the fact that this isn't a flame war. Sorry if I came off as hostile earlier.

[chenGOD]

So, no problem with your girlfriend being banged by other dudes for a living? That's not degrading?

If you lust after a woman sexually (and since that's all you see of the women in porn) then how are you treating her as a complete person?

 

I know where my bananas come from, I've read "follow the thing" by ian cook. I am aware that food companies make profits off the hard labour of poorer workers. I could also purchase fair trade bananas or grow my own fruit (which we do, out back yard produces strawberries, blueberries, raspberries, apples and pears, as well as other produce). I have a choice in that. You do not have a choice in whether or not porn is degrading to women. There's no "fair trade" porn.

 

I don't know - I don't fantasize about rape. Why do you?

the studies showed that: young men and women have very different views on the acceptability of porn, media influences adolescents, sexually active teens are more likely to have STDs or pregnancies (derr) and that viewing porn alters the brain.

So boys are ok with viewing porn and they think the acts depicted are acceptable. the media shows teens having relationships all the time, including having sex. therefore teen sex has come to be expected, and boys will reproduce their sexual acts based on porn, because that's how they learned about sex. I don't want my daughter to have an STD or be pregnant while she's a teen (STD never would be preferable), so I have to explain to her why porn is damaging and that she doesn't have to have sex to prove her "love" to a boy. Additionally, I would like the man she ends up with to be someone with some motivation in life, and not one of those who has been altered irrevocably by porn.

 

Look the issue is this:

a) I do believe that pornography is degrading because it doesn't portray women as anything but objects to service men's desires.

b) i don't think government filters are the answer

c) i think responsible parenting involves limiting what your child can view until they are of appropriate mental maturity to deal with those things.

d) that maturity will obviously vary from child-to-child.

e) it is impossible for me to restrict what they view at all times, but it is my responsibility as a parent to make them aware of the possible consequences.

 

and ditto on the respect your feelings/no flamewar sentiment

 

ads are driven by pageviews, not click-throughs.

[Root5]

I'd like to narrow down this discussion to just the "degrading" and "viewing as an object" bit because I think that's where we disagree. I think we're largely in agreement about the support of large companies, and I'll admit my own fault there. I have the regular excused (I'm busy and a poor student blah blah) but hopefully I can get that in check.

 

What do you mean by "viewing as an object". Men don't view objects as sexual things. They view people as sexual things. Men don't tend to fuck inanimate objects. They don't lust after them. They are treating women as women, not as objects. They're just not always treating women respectfully.

 

You ask how I can lust after a woman and then treat her as a person. The answer is: the same way I can purchase stuff from a shop-keep and treat him/her as a person. I'm using the person for a particular end, but I'm doing so in a way that isn't disrespectful. When I lust after women I don't grope them, or whistle at them or anything. I try to be nice to them and what-not. I don't see what the issue is with that.

 

So basically, I don't understand "objectivisation" or "viewing someone as an object". I don't know what that even means. And I don't have a problem with using someone, as long as I'm nice about. We all use each other all the time, as I see it. The problem is when the using become a motivation to be nasty to someone.

[chenGOD]

I'll have to get back to you - off to class.

[Guest Coalbucket PI]

Coalbucket - it's called being a responsible parent. I don't let my daughter browse the net by herself, nor will I until I think she's ready to deal with the kinds of shit you can find on the net.

Yes, but you're essentially providing a filtering function there, that could be done by a machine. There's nothing irresponsible about outsourcing some of your parenting duties. If you think you can control what your daughter sees for 16 or however many years I wish you good luck sir but I think you might not manage it. I remember being passed one of those nude lady pens on the school bus when I was 11 but I can scarcely conceive what kids are looking at now, suffice to say it probably involves loads of cocks and some vomit and an owl or something.

 

You are fucking nuts if you think a machine blacklist can effectively work as a filter. You're also fucking nuts if you think a six year old should be alright with viewing shit like goatse.

Kids have not changed that much since we were kids. There are more extreme examples of course (although I'm sure there extreme examples before, we just hadn't heard about them cause news did not spread like it did thanks to the net) but I guarantee that the majority of 10 year olds are not seeking out swap.avi.

When she gets to be about 11 or 12, she'll have spent time browsing the net safely with me or my wife. She'll have some understanding of how sexuality works, and I have no problems being frank about it with her then. She'll understand that there is some sick shit on the net and that she might come across some. It will be natural to be curious about it, but (hopefully) she will have been raised with enough sense to talk with her parents about it and also realize that whilst sex is a natural activity, it should not be entered into with reckless abandon.

 

To whoever discussed the idea of making music videos more pornified - like the Rihanna example - yeah, I have a hard time explaining to her why she shouldn't be watching those videos at the age of six.

 

Well now we're talking about whether the software filter is effective which is a completely different issue. I just think some of the things you could find when you don't have the context for it could be immensely confusing, just like Obel I think I basically cobbled together my understanding of sex from TV, Littlewoods catalogues, smutty jokes, and crude drawings... I think if you threw in photos of men pulling their arseholes so wide you can see into their jejenum, and women with enormous fake tits dressed as schoolgirls crying and being choked, it's certainly not going to help people. And while you at least have a reasonable idea of how to protect your children, many parents will not.

 

The basic thing for me is this; as long as you are allowed to do it, you should be allowed to not do it. So if you want to have sex, you can, and if you don't, then you shouldn't have to just walk round a corner one day and be fucked in the arse. If you want to watch people shitting in a cup and drinking it then that's all well and good, but if you don't want to see that then you can opt out. I'm sure in practice this is a lot more complicated to bring about but that's the principle in my eyes.

[Glunk]

one issue with porn ive always been uncomfortable with: can the actors really be consenting to it if theyre getting paid? isnt that coercion? especially in situations where they are desperate, impoverished, or drug-addicted?

[Adieu]

Well even more disturbing is the idea that porn in and of itself is bad. Why is sex bad? Why is it bad to express yourself sexually in any way you like with a consensual party?

 

I remember seeing a study once that directly linked access to porn to a decline in instances of rape. Why is this question not being brought up? I also do not believe that porn itself damages people and even children. Everyone has their own awkward and sometimes unfortunate sexual experiences. The idea that you can stop that from happening because you are limiting peoples' ability to release some tension is insanity. This is the Christian right doing another insane thing to limit your freedom and to destroy the world. It is about time for us to start to transcend religion and accept our humanity for exactly what it is.

 

We can all agree that child pornography is bad, but you have to actively seek child pornography to find it, and this isn't helping win that battle at all.

 

As far as commercialization, I hate it as much as the next person, but it does have advantages. It keeps costs of certain things lower that would otherwise be harder to make a profit in providing. For example, television and free websites.

 

The clothing thing is sooooo ridiculous.

 

THIS FUCKING SCARES ME

 

They are completing pissing on your freedom to express yourselves. What's next? Getting thrown in jail for cursing in public?

 

Oh,and yes drugs should be legal and so should prostitution. These are all things that happen regardless of their legality... The correct response to all of this is to accept these parts of our lives and stop giving them so much attention. Use some drugs if you have some days off work and go down and get a nice shag if you have a long lunch. Who fucking cares???

 

P.S.S. and anyone who wants to argue some gender equality nonsense is an idiot. Objectification?? This is 2011 where more women go to college than men and Femdom is in a large quantity of pornography.

[Adieu]

one issue with porn ive always been uncomfortable with: can the actors really be consenting to it if theyre getting paid? isnt that coercion? especially in situations where they are desperate, impoverished, or drug-addicted?

 

This is fucking retarded. Can they actually be consenting if they are getting paid???? Are you consenting to work or are you being coerced into working? If you want to get really deep you could say society is coercive as it requires you to work to survive (in most cases). Sure, there situations where drug addicted victims make bad decisions like making porn to fuel their habit, but that is a totally different argument.

[Guest underscore]

If you want to get really deep

 

this thread is making me hot

[Adieu]

the thing is porn portrays sex as being self-serving, when it's really about mutual satisfaction. i think gloria steinem said it well: "Blatant or subtle, pornography involves no equal power or mutuality. In fact, much of the tension and drama comes from the clear idea that one person is dominating the other." i think this is a good precautionary measure so that kids don't "get the wrong idea" so to speak.

 

also yeah, our brains are subject to neuroplasticity. our neurons can literally change their circuitry because of environmental experiences.

 

in saying this i think there are other issues that are of equal if not greater importance that may be getting ignored, such as whether consent is taught in sex education and infant male circumcision being an acceptable practice

 

 

This is also bullshit. There most always is a dominate and submissive position in sex and many times the female is inclined to be submissive. Actually, historically speaking the woman is supposed to be submissive, but we all know that they aren't always. To the submissive being submissive is equally as satisfying as being dominate is to the dominator. There is your mutual satisfaction. Also, if it was all about being self-serving then why do women take the time to fake orgasms and put on a show of pleasure for the the viewer? Sex is violent. It involves an object being rammed into another person and usually the faster and harder the better. (obvious generalization, but you get my point)

 

The whole idea that you can protect people from something that exists by limiting their ability to experience it is the wrong state of mind. We should be giving everyone the chance to experience everything and then instilling the proper attitude in them to discern right from wrong.

 

And Gloria Steinem was a feminist so of course she is going to say some stupid shit like that.

 

Also, sex is best when both partners are self-serving as a person who is trying their hardest to pleasure someone else is less pleasurable than a person who is pleasuring them self with their partner. (see Irreversible)

[Glunk]

holy overreaction. nobody said that porn is, or should be, illegal. take a chill pill, man.

[chenGOD]

historically speaking the woman is supposed to be submissive, but we all know that they aren't always. Sex is violent.

 

And there you go.

[Adieu]

holy overreaction. nobody said that porn is, or should be, illegal. take a chill pill, man.

 

 

I'm chill, but as a very concerned citizen of this earth I fear for all of us when this type of thinking is allowed to take hold of society. It is plain fucking wrong and it is taking us in reverse from where we need to be. I'm not mad at you for making bad arguments in this debate, but I'm not going to censor my language either. You have to understand that these types of things are "steps". The next "step" to cure this sinful apparition inside our society's heart(sarcasm) is going to be to worse and then it gets to the point of no return. Then we have a revolution and people die. We need to be very wary of these types of movements in society. I don't want any more wars and you shouldn't either. I don't want anymore witch trials. I don't want to go to jail because I smoked a joint in public etc. etc. etc.

[Adieu]

historically speaking the woman is supposed to be submissive, but we all know that they aren't always. Sex is violent.

 

And there you go.

 

What do you mean? I wasn't promoting submission in women at all if that is what you mean. I think that as far as gender equality is concerned that roles in sex have equalized substantially. It is the roles of male and female that were developed in society that are the reason that type of thinking exists. Pornography has not affected it. The same way that feminine men are ostracized for being submissive sexually (not always submissive even if they are feminine) and that masculine woman are called dykes or butch or whatever. It like the idea that gay men and more specifically "bottom" gay men sometimes experience this great inner conflict because they enjoy being submissive and that doesn't jive with what society has taught them. It is wrong, because every person should be able to choose their experience and enjoy it the way they want to without that conflict from what society deems the appropriate way to be.

[Redruth]

masterdebater

[Adieu]

What I'm saying is that you had to wait until your parents left the house to look at porn. That's not the same as you looking at it behind closed doors, where maybe they could have heard you watching "Julie's First BBC", that's you acknowledging that it's somehow shameful to do it, as you were obviously afraid of getting caught.

 

Porn is degrading to women, no matter what kind of spin you put on it. Some feminists try and say "oh we can take control of it and make it better". To which I say bullshit. You're still pandering to a well-defined market, which is males. And if you want an indication of where porn is going, look at the types of porn that have become popular. That throat-gagging, choking shit, or ass-to-mouth, or what have you.

Studies show that exposure to sexualized media leads to increases in sexual activity among teens. Now, speaking as a parent who wants his daughter to have a good shot at becoming something beyond a baby-making factory, I'd like for her not to get pregnant as a teen. I'm not saying that she's not gonna have sex as a teen, but watching porn certainly influences how people perceive sex. Less-risky behaviour, thank you (also reducing the possibility of STDs).

 

 

Firstly, studies about these types of polarizing social issues are usually skewed. Secondly, you are in luck because I believe teen pregnancy has been on the decline for years now.

 

Yes, I didn't want my parents catching me jerking it because it is a personal experience. It is not one that you share with everyone and especially not one that you want to share with your parents.(sex) (In most cases...) That being said I have been caught by my parents and am not ashamed of it one bit although it was embarrassing at the time. Really the only thing shameful about masturbating is that you aren't doing it with another human which is more about being inadequate or not able to attract a mate.

 

Porn is degrading to women only if you view their sexual role as degrading. Why you view this as degrading is more to the point I believe. Do you watch a video of a woman banging a dude with a strap-on and throat banging him as degrading to males? Do you think this type of porn ( and yes it is increasingly popular. See femdom) as negatively impacting the role of men in society? Do you think women watch it and think less of men?

 

I think the ultimate argument is that if being forceful during sex with a consensual partner is wrong why does the submissive party often request it? I have experience this first hand as I'm sure many of you have as well. I'm sure many of you have heard the phrase, "harder, harder, faster, faster" before.

 

EDIT: My advice to you and this does not in anyway mean I think you are not an adequate parent or that I know better at all. This is just me relating my own experience to yours. I think you should talk to your daughter and tell her everything you know about this issue and be honest with her. Explain to her and expand her own thinking on the subject. Help her realize the repercussions of her actions should she choose to be irresponsible. I think you should be honest about the idea that sex is ok. Sex is ok, but you should help her understand that unprotected sex and sex with a partner that you are not really acquainted with is risky. Explain to her that sex with someone you care about is much more powerful and pleasurable than sex with someone just for the sake of release.