chenGOD Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Couldn't this sort of shit been avoided by allowing easy access to clean heroin and medical assistance to addicts? Having drugs illegal causes far more problems than actually solving them. People will get high regardless of the legality of these substances. And if it means making shoddy replacements of these substances that will make your arms and legs rot away, people will still do it. Well yes, that's the common sense approach. The common sense that's completely lacking from the drugs policies of almost every government in the world. I go back and forth on this. Part of me thinks that there is a contingent of people who are destined to do really stupid shit in the pursuit of getting high. Take the heroin example. Say that it's legalized and you can get 1 g. for €25 at your local convenience store. There is bound to be some demographic who says "€25 is too much. I will drink "janitor shots" of ammonia, bleach and floor wax to get off. A hole will develop in my torso through which my liquefied viscera will spill out but it's just too hard to stop". It doesn't have to be available from every corner shop. It could be prescribed by doctors to registered addicts - doctors who could also provide medical support and assistance. Couldn't this sort of shit been avoided by allowing easy access to clean heroin and medical assistance to addicts? Having drugs illegal causes far more problems than actually solving them. People will get high regardless of the legality of these substances. And if it means making shoddy replacements of these substances that will make your arms and legs rot away, people will still do it. I go back and forth on this. Part of me thinks that there is a contingent of people who are destined to do really stupid shit in the pursuit of getting high. Take the heroin example. Say that it's legalized and you can get 1 g. for €25 at your local convenience store. There is bound to be some demographic who says "€25 is too much. I will drink "janitor shots" of ammonia, bleach and floor wax to get off. A hole will develop in my torso through which my liquefied viscera will spill out but it's just too hard to stop". Obviously there would be these losers who will fuck up no matter what, but I have a strong feeling that handling drug addiction as a social & health issue rather than a criminal problem would minimize the numbers of problematic cases. This would also need a change in social attitude towards drug addicts in general. What says that a heroin addict couldn't be a functioning individual in society with the right care and supervision? We all know that there are a huge number people with rx-pain medication addictions out there that no one is even worrying about who are fitting in well enough to not be bothered by anyone. Naturally, I agree that decriminalization is the answer. However, from an American perspective, medicalizing the ordeal is a horrifying idea. We don't have anything like the NHS or municipally funded health care. In other words, the criminality of our health care system and its crooked partner of third party reimbursements exceeds the current black market by such a wide margin that the status quo is actually a benefit to the dope addict. I would like to see your ideas implemented for the UK and Finland, respectively Yo why you gotta straight up disrespect Canada like that? ;) I'm in favour of widespread legalization - there are two drugs I would regulate strongly - PCP and crystal meth. Actually make that three, this krokodil shit too. Simply because they put too much of a burden on society. PCP and crystal meth users have disproportionate tendencies to be out of control, violent and dangerous both to themselves and to others. On the other hand heroin (and other opiates) users, marijuana smokers, acid heads, mushroom freaks are generally benign, and certainly in the case of the former two drugs can be very productive even when under the influence (you do not want to know the number of your meals that are being cooked by potheads - I have a theory that chefs are just potheads in search of the ultimate in munchies). Obviously there are situations when being under the influence is not safe (driving, operating heavy machinery etc) but for the most part, there is no real harm. I've heard the argument (not from anyone on here) that if societies legalize drugs, then we'll see massive epidemics and rises in drug use. That's such a joke. If a nation legalizes heroin, the number of people who go out and start shooting up is not gonna rise dramatically. Simply because of the intensity a serious drug addiction requires. Additionally, there's empirical evidence from Portugal that decriminalization has been highly effective in controlling social issues which arise from drug use (and just an FYI, drugs are not legal in Portugal, they are decriminalized - significant difference). :krokodils out: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokoon Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 i've only seen some of the pics but my mind just can't get over it. i feel nauseous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoodie Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Couldn't this sort of shit been avoided by allowing easy access to clean heroin and medical assistance to addicts? Having drugs illegal causes far more problems than actually solving them. People will get high regardless of the legality of these substances. And if it means making shoddy replacements of these substances that will make your arms and legs rot away, people will still do it. Well yes, that's the common sense approach. The common sense that's completely lacking from the drugs policies of almost every government in the world. I go back and forth on this. Part of me thinks that there is a contingent of people who are destined to do really stupid shit in the pursuit of getting high. Take the heroin example. Say that it's legalized and you can get 1 g. for €25 at your local convenience store. There is bound to be some demographic who says "€25 is too much. I will drink "janitor shots" of ammonia, bleach and floor wax to get off. A hole will develop in my torso through which my liquefied viscera will spill out but it's just too hard to stop". It doesn't have to be available from every corner shop. It could be prescribed by doctors to registered addicts - doctors who could also provide medical support and assistance. Couldn't this sort of shit been avoided by allowing easy access to clean heroin and medical assistance to addicts? Having drugs illegal causes far more problems than actually solving them. People will get high regardless of the legality of these substances. And if it means making shoddy replacements of these substances that will make your arms and legs rot away, people will still do it. I go back and forth on this. Part of me thinks that there is a contingent of people who are destined to do really stupid shit in the pursuit of getting high. Take the heroin example. Say that it's legalized and you can get 1 g. for €25 at your local convenience store. There is bound to be some demographic who says "€25 is too much. I will drink "janitor shots" of ammonia, bleach and floor wax to get off. A hole will develop in my torso through which my liquefied viscera will spill out but it's just too hard to stop". Obviously there would be these losers who will fuck up no matter what, but I have a strong feeling that handling drug addiction as a social & health issue rather than a criminal problem would minimize the numbers of problematic cases. This would also need a change in social attitude towards drug addicts in general. What says that a heroin addict couldn't be a functioning individual in society with the right care and supervision? We all know that there are a huge number people with rx-pain medication addictions out there that no one is even worrying about who are fitting in well enough to not be bothered by anyone. Naturally, I agree that decriminalization is the answer. However, from an American perspective, medicalizing the ordeal is a horrifying idea. We don't have anything like the NHS or municipally funded health care. In other words, the criminality of our health care system and its crooked partner of third party reimbursements exceeds the current black market by such a wide margin that the status quo is actually a benefit to the dope addict. I would like to see your ideas implemented for the UK and Finland, respectively Yo why you gotta straight up disrespect Canada like that? ;) I'm in favour of widespread legalization - there are two drugs I would regulate strongly - PCP and crystal meth. Actually make that three, this krokodil shit too. Simply because they put too much of a burden on society. PCP and crystal meth users have disproportionate tendencies to be out of control, violent and dangerous both to themselves and to others. On the other hand heroin (and other opiates) users, marijuana smokers, acid heads, mushroom freaks are generally benign, and certainly in the case of the former two drugs can be very productive even when under the influence (you do not want to know the number of your meals that are being cooked by potheads - I have a theory that chefs are just potheads in search of the ultimate in munchies). Obviously there are situations when being under the influence is not safe (driving, operating heavy machinery etc) but for the most part, there is no real harm. I've heard the argument (not from anyone on here) that if societies legalize drugs, then we'll see massive epidemics and rises in drug use. That's such a joke. If a nation legalizes heroin, the number of people who go out and start shooting up is not gonna rise dramatically. Simply because of the intensity a serious drug addiction requires. Additionally, there's empirical evidence from Portugal that decriminalization has been highly effective in controlling social issues which arise from drug use (and just an FYI, drugs are not legal in Portugal, they are decriminalized - significant difference). :krokodils out: i think we should legalize everything once we improve our health care and education systems here in the united states. an important precursor to legalization is an informed populace that understands drugs and knows their dangers, instead of the DARE scare-tactic bullshit we have now. also, drugs like pcp and meth remind me of the difference between drinking moonshine and other alcohol, you know? there are safer alternatives to pcp and meth, and i think once drugs are legalized, their use will drop dramatically because everyone will understand the risk associated (like moonshine). however, you'll still probably have a couple of idiots that use it--no system is perfect. 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chenGOD Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 I'm not saying they shouldn't be legalized (PCP and meth) I'm saying they need to be heavily regulated, and they should not be doled out like marijuana. The healthcare system in the US is definitely fucked though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essines Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 It isn't just idiots who suffer from addiction and addiction is more complicated than "Hey, this drug is safer, I won't do that other, cheaper one any more". If addicts were trying to be healthier and more safe they would get clean and not touch shit like heroin or meth. To stifle things like krokodil you have to stifle things other than the drug itself to curb the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 It isn't just idiots who suffer from addiction and addiction is more complicated than "Hey, this drug is safer, I won't do that other, cheaper one any more". If addicts were trying to be healthier and more safe they would get clean and not touch shit like heroin or meth. To stifle things like krokodil you have to stifle things other than the drug itself to curb the problem. read the article - the kids want to do heroin, but can't afford it. If you make it affordable and clean - it would reduce the number of kids who have to resort to shooting up this awful shit. Additionally, because the effects of a heroin high last longer than this seems to, they're not going to spend all day cooking up some krokodil, but use heroin and possibly be productive. Note I am not correlating heroin use with productivity, but the possibility at least seems to exist (Burroughs wrote while on heroin, there are many pieces of anecdotal evidence given by heroin users who remain productive). Essines - I'm no stranger to hard drug use or to addicts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essines Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 I wasn't really talking to you but hoodie. she has posted a couple of times where it seemed like she was glancing over the issue of addicts. and, again, make it legal and i'm sure you cut down on some of the use of shitty drugs but if it is still cheaper it will be done. it's not gonna be free heroin if it's legal so the same problem still exists though i'm sure to a lesser extent. And i suppose progress is progress, one less addict with rotting limbs is still a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 I wasn't really talking to you but hoodie. she has posted a couple of times where it seemed like she was glancing over the issue of addicts. and, again, make it legal and i'm sure you cut down on some of the use of shitty drugs but if it is still cheaper it will be done. it's not gonna be free heroin if it's legal so the same problem still exists though i'm sure to a lesser extent. And i suppose progress is progress, one less addict with rotting limbs is still a good thing. New Snares album? Yeah I know, there are still people who drink moonshine in Korea even though booze is super cheap. But progress is progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCM Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 what the fuck happens if you inject krokodil into a crocodile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaini Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 what the fuck happens if you inject krokodil into a crocodile? malkovich malkovich malkovich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidphakist Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Do you think that the krokodil works as an anesthetic and kills the pain normally experienced by having your entire forearm bone exposed to the elements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 what the fuck happens if you inject krokodil into a crocodile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCM Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 *krokodils out* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nene multiple assgasms Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 in addition to making heroin legal and cheaper they could also restrict access to the codeine or whatever it is that people use to make krokodil. if I understand correctly it's sold over the counter no questions asked. there are places in the states where you need a prescription to buy sudafed because they're afraid people are going to use it to make methamphetamine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essines Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Apparently the pharmacies and pharmaceutical companies make far to much money for either one to bother restricting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoodie Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 I wasn't really talking to you but hoodie. she has posted a couple of times where it seemed like she was glancing over the issue of addicts. and, again, make it legal and i'm sure you cut down on some of the use of shitty drugs but if it is still cheaper it will be done. it's not gonna be free heroin if it's legal so the same problem still exists though i'm sure to a lesser extent. And i suppose progress is progress, one less addict with rotting limbs is still a good thing. i admit that i don't know much about addicts and how they function. however, i still feel that legalization and treatment of addiction as a medical issue rather than criminal would be a good step forward. it makes no sense to me that we flippantly ruin people's lives over drug use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyrex Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 While this topic is a legitimate (and interesting) discussion on this horrible drug, please do not post graphic images depicting it's effects, or links to videos or pictures without first warning of the potential content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sup Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 CRIKEY!!!!!! :sup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cear Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 While this topic is a legitimate (and interesting) discussion on this horrible drug, please do not post graphic images depicting it's effects, or links to videos or pictures without first warning of the potential content. CRIKEY!!!!!! :sup: hahaha :') Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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