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1 hour ago, xox said:

yes, but you...i guess, you first want to ''entertain yourself / make you feel the way you want to feel'' in a known or unknown way, right?

Well yes, im saying that part is "using your imagination", you know, how you can make new music without ever moving your muscle, that nobody else can hear? Im not sure exactly what you are getting at here

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1 hour ago, vkxwz said:

Well yes, im saying that part is "using your imagination", you know, how you can make new music without ever moving your muscle, that nobody else can hear? Im not sure exactly what you are getting at here

Im not talking about imagining music but about the cognitive and emotional state before you imagine the music, the state that dictates type of music you want to imagine/make! That “to want” phase comes before any other stage, before making music (in your mind or actually/physically)… so, we’ve returned to “the will” argument …oh no! 🙂

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18 hours ago, brian trageskin said:

that's why jazz schools were created, to teach this skill. 

that's not what i meant, i don't know why i wrote that. i meant to say that ear training and knowledge of music theory give you the ability to quickly or instantly replicate what you hear in your head (or outside in the real world obviously), and jazz schools train you for this purpose, among other ones.

but yeah, @vkxwz i'm curious as to what you thought jazz musicians were doing when they improvise.

23 minutes ago, xox said:

Im not talking about imagining music but about the cognitive and emotional state before you imagine the music, the state that dictates type of music you want to imagine/make! That “to want” phase comes before any other stage, before making music (in your mind or actually/physically)… so, we’ve returned to “the will” argument …oh no! 🙂

your emotional state is about as relevant as your opinion on jiu-jitsu if you're unable to replicate what you hear. it won't dictate shit imo.

Edited by brian trageskin
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12 minutes ago, brian trageskin said:

your emotional state is about as relevant as your opinion on jiu-jitsu if you're unable to replicate what you hear. it won't dictate shit imo.

You hear where?! You can hear your emotions and thoughts?

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4 minutes ago, brian trageskin said:

what? i have literally no idea what this is supposed to mean lol

Me “Im not talking about imagining music but about the cognitive and emotional state before you imagine the music, the state that dictates type of music you want to imagine/make! That “to want” phase comes before any other stage, before making music (in your mind or actually/physically)… so, we’ve returned to “the will” argument …oh no!”

Yo “your emotional state is about as relevant as your opinion on jiu-jitsu if you're unable to replicate what you hear. it won't dictate shit imo.”

Me “You hear where?! You can hear your emotions and thoughts?”

Edited by xox
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"You hear where" i don't understand the meaning of this sentence. please rephrase 

"You can hear your emotions and thoughts" what are you trying to say? please rephrase

this thread has quickly turned to shit, i love it 

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Can’t you just explain your own words that i bolded for you?! you’re responding to me without any logic! Again!

What the hell the state of mind before you actually imagine music (the state of mind that’s responsible for imagining and later making a certain kind of music) {{the things i was talking about}} has to do with being able or not to “replicate what you hear”? [[that was your respond]]
By “replicate” did you mean to actualize your imagined music into the physical world?
 

your emotional state is about as relevant as your opinion on jiu-jitsu if you're unable to replicate what you hear. it won't dictate shit imo

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On 1/17/2022 at 12:56 AM, vkxwz said:

Found this in an aphex interview once: "Everytime you make music, if you’re on form, you should be imaging what you want to hear, which is basically how you want it to be"

Is this an exact quote from Aphex? Googling this doesn't yield any Aphex interviews as search hits. If you are just going by memory and it's not an exact quote, I wonder what his real words were

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12 minutes ago, xox said:

Can’t you just explain your own words that i bolded for you?! you’re responding to me without any logic! Again!

What the hell the state of mind before you actually imagine music (the state of mind that’s responsible for imagining and later making a certain kind of music) {{the things i was talking about}} has to do with being able or not to “replicate what you hear”? [[that was your respond]]
By “replicate” did you mean to actualize your imagined music into the physical world?
 

your emotional state is about as relevant as your opinion on jiu-jitsu if you're unable to replicate what you hear. it won't dictate shit imo

i'm not saying this to be mean but jesus christ dude, your english really sucks lol. i know mine is far from perfect but holy shit, i still have no idea what you mean. your syntax is catastrophically bad and your posts are quasi-cryptic. it is nearly impossible to have a conversation with you because of this.

anyway what i meant is, it doesn't matter what emotional state you're in before writing a melody if you haven't previously learned how to play melodies on your instrument of choice (or piano roll), because you won't be able to keep up with what your brain hears (please watch the adam neely video i posted if you haven't) since you're so awfully slow at finding the notes. now obviously, a solution to this is to record yourself singing the melodies you come up with and boom, problem solved. but that's not what vkxwz was talking about. 

what do you have to say about this? 

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37 minutes ago, brian trageskin said:

i'm not saying this to be mean but jesus christ dude, your english really sucks lol. i know mine is far from perfect but holy shit, i still have no idea what you mean. your syntax is catastrophically bad and your posts are quasi-cryptic. it is nearly impossible to have a conversation with you because of this.

anyway what i meant is, it doesn't matter what emotional state you're in before writing a melody if you haven't previously learned how to play melodies on your instrument of choice (or piano roll), because you won't be able to keep up with what your brain hears (please watch the adam neely video i posted if you haven't) since you're so awfully slow at finding the notes. now obviously, a solution to this is to record yourself singing the melodies you come up with and boom, problem solved. but that's not what vkxwz was talking about. 

what do you have to say about this? 

imo it’s not my english, which is far from ideal, especially when im trying to write about philosophical things but same happens when i speak about these things in my own language; some ppl get it immediately (bc they’ve been seeing things the way you see already) some don’t, and im not talking about who’s right or not, who’s smart or not, it’s not about that; it’s just the topic is extremely difficult and at this level of abstraction, it’s really hard to explain things to someone who sees things differently/opposite to you

Where i see the problem is that im talking about the philosophy (metaphysics and aesthetics) of music and art while you and vkxwz are talking about methods, knowledge and processes; totally different dimensions and that’s why we can’t understand each other

…same happened in that other thread, that’s why i just gave up, just bc I couldn’t explain myself, whatever reason might be, my english or our extreme differences and misunderstandings (bc of those differences)

 

Edited by xox
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Cornwall, England or whatever:

richard sits at his desk, squinting his eyelids almost completely closed but open enough to see into the world of imagination. He tugs at his goatee, occasionally resting his eyes on either a bust of Beethoven or a human skull. After allowing inspiration to overtake him, after his Muse delivers to his mind’s eye a Work from ‘pon Heaven, after he improvises over these in agile leaps of mental musicianship, he arises and walks swiftly into his studio. There he sets up precise pieces of gear: a Korg ps3100 is patched and all the knobs are perfectly arranged in accordance with the Master’s Will. A Roland TR-606 is programmed fluidly, intuitively, in a way that is Second Nature. The result of Study. Cables are patched into the Midas mixer and levels are set instantly, eq cuts and boosts are done almost with eyes closed, so thoroughly is the Artist’s Vision carries out by his Musical Muscles. After several Items and Instruments are thus arranged, Sir D James presses PLAY and the entire album “SYRO” was performed on these Machines. 2013

Edited by Alcofribas
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15 minutes ago, Alcofribas said:

@xox don’t let Brian’s “i don’t get it if it’s not in a youtube pedagogical video” approach to music distract you, buddy. i like what you’re getting at here. 

I’m sincerely starting to question my mind bc aesthetics of music is something i like to think about and i extremely rarely find someone who understands me on the net or irl (while im trying to monitor my intellectual narcissism and my probable belief that im soooo fakn special and nobody understands my specialness), so rarely that im struggling to read your post as supportive but ill try to stretch in the positive direction and just say thank you bro!
Thank you 🙏 

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13 minutes ago, xox said:

I’m sincerely starting to question my mind bc aesthetics of music is something i like to think about and i extremely rarely find someone who understands me on the net or irl (while im trying to monitor my intellectual narcissism and my probable belief that im soooo fakn special and nobody understands my specialness), so rarely that im struggling to read your post as supportive but ill try to stretch in the positive direction and just say thank you bro!
Thank you 🙏 

I support you king 💪🏻

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17 minutes ago, xox said:

it’s just the topic is extremely difficult and at this level of abstraction, it’s really hard to explain things to someone who sees things differently/opposite to you

i don't think it's a difficult topic. i don't see what's abstract about acoustic/temporal relationships. yes, there is subjective taste involved but other than this, it's all very concrete and can be discussed as rationally as any other topic imo. 

20 minutes ago, xox said:

Where i see the problem is that im talking about the philosophy (metaphysics and aesthetics) of music and art while you and vkxwz are talking about methods, knowledge and processes; totally different dimensions and that’s why we can’t understand each other

i'm totally fine with discussing aesthetics and personal taste but yeah, that's not what vkxwz was talking about. plus the topic at hand is how to write melodies, and i don't see how discussing emotions is helpful to answer this question. 

my personal take on this is that understanding harmony/how melodies work and developing your ear are the fastest ways to improve your ability to write good melodies. so music theory and ear training.

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25 minutes ago, brian trageskin said:

plus the topic at hand is how to write melodies, and i don't see how discussing emotions is helpful to answer this question. 

Ok, that’s one of the points we differ, and that’s fine

also, i was firstly specifically referring to the afx quote 

p.s. not sure if i was understood here but by aesthetics of music I don’t mean in a plain decorative sense or personal taste (as you say) but more as a branch of philosophy

25 minutes ago, brian trageskin said:

my personal take on this is that understanding harmony/how melodies work and developing your ear are the fastest ways to improve your ability to write good melodies. so music theory and ear training.

Totally agree!
I just believe there’s more to that

✌️ ☮️ 

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37 minutes ago, brian trageskin said:

i don't think it's a difficult topic. i don't see what's abstract about acoustic/temporal relationships. yes, there is subjective taste involved but other than this, it's all very concrete and can be discussed as rationally as any other topic imo. 

Still, imo we’re talking about different things

imo

☮️

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Just now, xox said:

Still, imo we’re talking about different things

why don't you explain yourself then? you seem to have plenty of time to reply to me, why don't you try to synthesize your thought and communicate it in an understandable way? it's not like we're discussing rocket science.

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6 minutes ago, brian trageskin said:

why don't you explain yourself then? you seem to have plenty of time to reply to me, why don't you try to synthesize your thought and communicate it in an understandable way? it's not like we're discussing rocket science.

Oh maan i tried! And I failed! All i got in return from you was a total misunderstanding and respond that my english is bad; I admit i was my fault too.
2ndly, I’m responding to your posts bc im a polite guy (I still regret not answering some posts on watmm, was probably seen as impolite back then and don’t want to repeat that again) but sorry i have no more energy nor will to proceed with this topic.

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2 hours ago, xox said:

p.s. not sure if i was understood here but by aesthetics of music I don’t mean in a plain decorative sense or personal taste (as you say) but more as a branch of philosophy

i got that the first time. aesthetics on one side (theorization/objective analysis) and personal taste on the other.

2 hours ago, xox said:

also, i was firstly specifically referring to the afx quote 

also got that the first time. i just don't see the point in mentioning the pre-writing emotional state as it's only relevant if you have music skills, otherwise it won't dictate shit. but your limitations will. your inability will. they say that ideas are only as good as your ability to communicate them. 

1 hour ago, xox said:

but sorry i have no more energy nor will to proceed with this topic.

too much wanking, i see... :spiteful:

2 hours ago, xox said:

I just believe there’s more to that

✌️ ☮️ 

see, that's where you're wrong :wink: but yeah, peace out.

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43 minutes ago, brian trageskin said:

i got that the first time. aesthetics on one side (theorization/objective analysis) and personal taste on the other.

also got that the first time. i just don't see the point in mentioning the pre-writing emotional state as it's only relevant if you have music skills, otherwise it won't dictate shit. but your limitations will. your inability will. they say that ideas are only as good as your ability to communicate them. 

too much wanking, i see... :spiteful:

see, that's where you're wrong :wink: but yeah, peace out.

I’m so thankful i don’t think like this lol

 

also, this is a much more interesting look at “music coming from your head:”

https://www.thewire.co.uk/in-writing/essays/collateral-damage-mark-fell

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59 minutes ago, Alcofribas said:

I’m so thankful i don’t think like this lol

maybe you think my approach is boring and limited by strict protocols and methods or something but it's really not. i've made super shitty music in the past and i've never experienced a tenth of the fun i'm having since i started learning theory/how to play piano. they say that limitations breed creativity and that's totally true if you know theory a bit, but i don't see the fun in being limited by total ignorance. there's no creative decision in that. 

it depends on what you're trying to achieve though. obviously you don't need theory if you don't give a shit about harmony. 

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