writing melodies

[Alcofribas]

9 minutes ago, brian trageskin said:

maybe you think my approach is boring and limited by strict protocols and methods or something but it's really not. i've made super shitty music in the past and i've never experienced a tenth of the fun i'm having since i started learning theory/how to play piano. they say that limitations breed creativity and that's totally true if you know theory a bit, but i don't see the fun in being limited by total ignorance. there's no creative decision in that. 

it depends on what you're trying to achieve though. obviously you don't need theory if you don't give a shit about harmony. 

Yeah I mean whatever works. I was more referring to the whole “no you’re wrong I have the answer to music” kinda thing. I’m too chill and cool for that

[brian trageskin]

2 minutes ago, Alcofribas said:

Yeah I mean whatever works. I was more referring to the whole “no you’re wrong I have the answer to music” kinda thing. I’m too chill and cool for that

i do have the answer to music though, you're just too cringe to see it. 

[vkxwz]

Ok so brian you are talking about skills needed to get what you hear out of your head and into physical music, and xox is talking about what goes into the actual generation of that music, two different areas that are both relevant imo.

Heres where that quote is from: https://acclaimmag.com/music/aphex-twin-answers-bunch-questions-artists/

Xox can you expand on in what ways that state beforehand affects the music? You always seem to be getting at something in these conversations without actually expressing the meat of it, like giving examples or specifics.

And brian you really think emotional state doesnt have an effect on what melodies you imagine?

Edited January 19, 2022 by vkxwz

[brian trageskin]

2 minutes ago, vkxwz said:

Xox can you expand on in what ways that state beforehand affects the music? You always seem to be getting at something in these conversations without actually expressing the meat of it, like giving examples or specifics.

that's because there's no meat, it's all one big lie, a fabrication, and xox is the main victim. the emperor has no clothes. delusional, rejected by his peers, they sing and sing "there is no meat"

Spoiler

  

[brian trageskin]

9 hours ago, vkxwz said:

And brian you really think emotional state doesnt have an effect on what melodies you imagine?

it certainly has an effect but i don't think it plays a big role in the end result if you're unable to translate your musical ideas. 

[luke viia]

so you're telling me that imagination and skill are both helpful?

not sure i can believe this

just seems so unintuitive

i'm gonna need to see some sources

 

[zero]

counterpoint to Brian's super technical jazz wizard brain - keep it simple! IMO the catchiest melodies are the ones with like 3 or 4 notes. Beastie Boys flute loop, or something like that. you don't even have to be any good at an instrument to do that! a bass player friend of mine once said something along the lines of you can make something pretty damn funky on the bass by playing just one note. MMW did something like that on Shack-Man with one of their tracks I remember.

 

[cern]

Im good making chord progression and some basslines but I really suck making catchy melodies

Help me please! How do I get out of this darkness? 

Bass:
Csharp2, f1,csharp2, c2, gsharp1, csharp2, c2,gsharp1,dsharp2

Melody?

[brian trageskin]

1 hour ago, zero said:

counterpoint to Brian's super technical jazz wizard brain

yeah i mean, one should be able to improvise over giant steps in all 12 keys before even considering writing a melody, don't you think?

1 hour ago, zero said:

keep it simple! IMO the catchiest melodies are the ones with like 3 or 4 notes.

totally agree. ZoeB suggested the same earlier itt (maybe others too, i can't remember). simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, they say. 

also, development is super important. this video explains how you can use short motifs, call and response and development to write great melodies (around the 7 minute mark - but i suggest you watch the whole thing, it's a great video)

and here's what pat metheny has to say about the happy birthday song (i only watched this short bit) (i timestamped the thing)

1 hour ago, zero said:

a bass player friend of mine once said something along the lines of you can make something pretty damn funky on the bass by playing just one note. 

oh definitely. i took about 4 private lessons with a teacher a few years ago (i quit for personal reasons and never took a lesson after that) and the only time he made me improvise, he played something on the piano and asked me to play over it using only one note, which is great practice and makes you realize how you can express a lot just with one note. and it teaches you a lot about how music and melody in particular works.

[brian trageskin]

1 hour ago, cern said:

Bass:
Csharp2, f1,csharp2, c2, gsharp1, csharp2, c2,gsharp1,dsharp2

are 1 and 2 supposed to indicate the octave (as in, this c#, not the one above or the one below)?

[cern]

7 hours ago, brian trageskin said:

are 1 and 2 supposed to indicate the octave (as in, this c#, not the one above or the one below)?

Yes they are indicating the octave.. Like:

C sharp 2 play it 8 times
Goes to F 1 octave under and play it 8 times 
Then go to next.. 

Is Thera a better scale? 

[Silent Member]

The best music is always written by classically trained guitar wankers.

NO EXCEPTIONS!

[brian trageskin]

4 hours ago, cern said:

Is Thera a better scale? 

kind of a weird question for several reasons.

no scale is inherently good or bad, it all depends on how you use it + while your bassline seems to indicate an Ab major tonality, it all depends on what chords and melodies you play on top, and the fact that you gave us 9 notes is confusing, is this supposed to be a 9-bar loop or is the bassline supposed to continue after D#? 

[brian trageskin]

actually i'd say we're in F minor, not Ab major. which isn't all that different since F minor is part or Ab major and vice versa but still, it changes how you perceive the progression.

 

[dcom]

@brian trageskin do you have absolute pitch or do you use tools and/or instruments to determine pitches/modes?

[ghsotword]

1 hour ago, brian trageskin said:

actually i'd say we're in F minor, not Ab major. which isn't all that different since F minor is part or Ab major and vice versa but still, it changes how you perceive the progression.

I think it could be any of these scales, depending on what the other instruments are doing. Although some of these fit the bassline more naturally than others

[brian trageskin]

4 hours ago, dcom said:

@brian trageskin do you have absolute pitch or do you use tools and/or instruments to determine pitches/modes?

no i don't have perfect pitch, i played the notes on my midi keyboard and used my limited knowledge of theory to determine the tonality.

3 hours ago, ghsotword said:

I think it could be any of these scales, depending on what the other instruments are doing. Although some of these fit the bassline more naturally than others

yeah i don't agree that it could be any of these scales. first, i don't see the need of filling the gaps with modal intervals. yes, this bassline could definitely be in a number of different keys but in the absence of more indications, it's probably wiser to make as few assumptions as possible. could be in F phrygian - yeah, where's your b2? could be Ab mixolydian - yeah, where's your b7? better to assume by default that we're in a major or minor key until we're given more indications imo. 

second, as you suggested, what matters is where you perceive the tension, the resolution. and with this slightly ambiguous bassline (few notes + 9-bar loop or unfinished?), to me F minor is where the progression feels the more at rest. 

[brian trageskin]

edit: i meant F is where the progression feels the more at rest. or F minor is the home chord. i mixed up 2 sentences.

[brian trageskin]

4 hours ago, ghsotword said:

depending on what the other instruments are doing. 

shit, believe it or not but i didn't read this part lol. i was preoccupied by something else and didn't even pay attention. my post was unnecessary then. your point is valid. yeah it could be any number of scales depending on the rest of the harmony.

1 hour ago, brian trageskin said:

could be in F phrygian - yeah, where's your b2? could be Ab mixolydian - yeah, where's your b7?

no need to mention Ab mixo since it's part of the same scale as F phrygian lol. i should really pay closer attention to what i post. 

also i thought about this shit i posted earlier:

On 1/18/2022 at 11:18 PM, brian trageskin said:

aesthetics on one side (theorization/objective analysis) and personal taste on the other.

yeah that's not what aesthetics means, lol. the worst is i've always understood what the word refers to but i chose to give a definition that has absolutely nothing to do with it. not that anyone gives a shit other than me, lol. i have to say i'm a bit disappointed that xox didn't point out my mistake, since he's the one who used the word. 

[ghsotword]

4 minutes ago, brian trageskin said:

shit, believe it or not but i didn't read this part lol. i was preoccupied by something else and didn't even pay attention. my post was unnecessary then. your point is valid. yeah it could be any number of scales depending on the rest of the harmony.

Yes, that's what I meant. A minor or a major key is indeed the most obvious choice of scale for this bassline, and F minor would make sense here as the home chord. However, when adding other instruments, it is possible to treat this section like it's in F phrygian for example, and introduce the b2 in the parts played by other instruments (the melody or chords). The same goes for Ab mixolydian: the b7 can be played by other instruments. This may produce something more interesting than just going for plain minor or major.

[brian trageskin]

51 minutes ago, ghsotword said:

This may produce something more interesting than just going for plain minor or major.

sure but i wasn't talking about what melodies or chords could be played over that bassline, i was simply pointing out that you can safely say that the key is F minor, even though it could be F phrygian, because the phrygian part remains to be determined with the rest of the harmony, which doesn't exist (yet). so the in absence of a 9th, and until proven otherwise, F minor is the scale by default. that's what i meant when i mentioned modal intervals. but obviously you could be even more cautious and say that we can't determine the tonality with the little information we have, which is 100% true. 

2 hours ago, brian trageskin said:

second, as you suggested, what matters is where you perceive the tension, the resolution. 

yeah that's not what you pointed out lol. i was talking about a completely different thing, that is how we feel the pull towards a particular tonal center based on the melodic movement of the notes.

Edited January 20, 2022 by brian trageskin

[brian trageskin]

[zero]

quit beating yourself up Brian, you're doing an excellent job here 

 

[Wunderbar]

do you think link has perfect pitch?

[thawkins]

I zoned out through all of this scales and theory discussion. I have always been terrible at this, although I respect theory as a tool and I use it more every day.

 

I wanted to add one maybe relevant data point to the argument about imagining music in your head: some people have an audible internal monologue in their head when they read text or something like that; some people don't have it at all. Both groups of people are incredibly surprised to find out the other group exists. And for simplicity's sake let's pretend auditory hallucinations (like schizophrenia) go to a 3rd group that I am not currently talking about. I.e. both the people who hear internal monologue and the people who don't are "normal" for lack of a better word.

I think it is fair to expand this: some people "hear" music in their head and some do not. So to me this means that "imagining music in your head" can mean wildly different things to different people, leading to misunderstandings.