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22 hours ago, Brian Dance said:

I can imagine a cake but no one's coming over for tea unless I know how to bake.

or maybe that cake won't be a success among ppl so yo prefer to learn more and improve it. It deppends on how perfectionist you are, we don't know but maybe Rdj has released 10%, 5% of his work?

Any kind of methodology is valid when creating a melody, just follow your gut, feelings, heart or whateva.

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2 hours ago, xox said:

learned others 

taught others.

yeah i'm not trying to teach anyone how to write melodies here lol. the only tips i gave were all from the zelda video i posted, 

3 hours ago, brian trageskin said:

it's a modal tune, it explores the sound of a scale that's commonly used in india 

i'm not talking about E minor pentatonic or E mixolydian pentatonic btw, i'm talking about this scale https://ianring.com/musictheory/scales/1209, which combines the 2.

although to be exact, the BoC tune doesn't really explore this scale, they just play E minor pentatonic over E major. had they played the major 3rd in the melody, it would definitely be an improv on that mode. but at the end of the day, it's just E minor pentatonic with the occasional rub between the #9 (G) and the major 3rd from the chord (G#), and the occasional add11 sound (A). 

On 1/23/2022 at 2:56 PM, Brian Dance said:

Love the harmony and structure of this but the melody is pretty flat tbh. 

i think i know what you mean. i was whistling the melody from the chorus earlier and realized it doesn't stand alone as a melody. it's brilliant over the chord progression but pretty dull when isolated from it. i didn't post this as an example of a great melody anyway, i just thought it was above the rest of what i've heard on watmm recently. which says a lot about the musical talent of our fellow forum members :trollface: 

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this cake analogy is definitely lame, half-baked. for one thing, hearing a melody in your mind would not be equivalent to imagining a cake. a melody is a distinct sequence of notes featuring in a larger composition, a cake is an entire composition of ingredients and processes. is hearing a melody like envisioning the entire sequence of baking? all the ingredients, their portions, the ratios, when and how they are to be combined, how long they are cooked, at what temperature, etc? 

another drawback to this is analogy is that we are musicians interested in improving our skills - so ofc course in the equivalent instance we would be talking about someone who knows how to bake, has familiarity and experience, and is specifically looking for ideas to make their cakes better. it goes without saying that the person imagining a cake knows how to bake.

additionally, anyone with history in the kitchen knows that it’s quite common for people to obtain their abilities from first hand experience, rather than culinary study. you learn how to cook by working in the kitchen. you often come up with new shit by just fucking around trying stuff. you don’t have to be in the kitchen with beakers and lab equipment measuring out the perfect portions and ratios based on scientific study; you literally go “what if we put this with this” and see if it’s delicious. which isn’t to say this culinary school is useless or learning about recipes isn’t powerful, it’s just a poor analogy to advocate for the necessity of learning western music theory since it’s a field in which experience towers over “theory” or whatever. 
 
but yeah, of course this thread is just Brian having conversations with himself while there are massive construction projects taking place outside his window. 

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5 minutes ago, brian trageskin said:

and the occasional add11 sound (A). 

i meant the harmony becomes E add11 when they play A over the E major drone.

3 hours ago, brian trageskin said:

unlike european and american tunes which are tonal in nature, meaning they have chord progressions that use different modes. 

yeah that's a rather poor definition of tonal lol. besides, a 12-bar blues for example is tonal, yet it only uses one mode (mixolydian - or the blues scale). so tonal harmony has more to do with tension/resolution and harmonic functions than it has to do with changing modes, i guess.

 

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3 hours ago, xox said:

Lol

That time when brian learned others how to write melodies… 

 

Learned others? I don’t know why I said that! I looked in several dictionaries and >taught others< is the correct expression!

Pls kill me!

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7 minutes ago, xox said:

Learned others? I don’t know why I said that! I looked in several dictionaries and >taught others< is the correct expression!

Pls kill me!

Funnily enough I've seen it used in flippant way, similar to "who'd a thunk it". That'll learn ya! It does add that little bit of extra disdain I thought you were going for...

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I've heard Dutch people say 'learn' when they mean 'teach' many times. I checked with Google translate: in Dutch one word ('leren') means both 'learn' and 'teach'. I guess that explains why they make this mistake all the time

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53 minutes ago, ArtificialDisco said:

Funnily enough I've seen it used in flippant way, similar to "who'd a thunk it". That'll learn ya! It does add that little bit of extra disdain I thought you were going for...

Yo! Heh I understand what you’re saying but no, no disdain on my side im just parodying brian’s recursive autocorrect madness that’s falling into a stack overflow; expecting his head to explode very soon 

brian stop, im afraid 

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@brian trageskin

serious question - do you post any of your music online? I'd be interested to check some of it out if so. asking this here instead of PMing you in case others were curious as well. I see you posted some Squarepusher chords you did in YLC. this forum kinda sucks for searching for stuff, so maybe there's already a thread of yours you could direct me to?

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2 minutes ago, zero said:

@brian trageskin

serious question - do you post any of your music online? I'd be interested to check some of it out if so. asking this here instead of PMing you in case others were curious as well. I see you posted some Squarepusher chords you did in YLC. this forum kinda sucks for searching for stuff, so maybe there's already a thread of yours you could direct me to?

i don't make music, no. i wish i did but i just can't find the courage to start learning how to use a DAW. pathetic, i know. 

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  • 1 month later...
On 1/24/2022 at 11:00 PM, brian trageskin said:

but to be clear, the tune sounds typically indian, not european or african-american. by isolating the intervals, we can see the similarities with other types of harmony, but the structure of the tune has nothing european or american.

it's a modal tune, it explores the sound of a scale that's commonly used in india - unlike european and american tunes which are tonal in nature, meaning they have chord progressions that use different modes. 

I suppose thats all useful information, doesnt say a whole lot about the sequence of the notes though. And earlier you said music theory says how music works, i'd argue that it just describes the structure of music but doesnt say much of anything about "how" it works. The best it can do there is try to explain some subjective feelings by comparing the structure to the structure of other music thats linked to those feelings.

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4 hours ago, vkxwz said:

I suppose thats all useful information, doesnt say a whole lot about the sequence of the notes though. 

i wasn't trying to explain how the melody worked, that would have required deeper analysis - pretty simple to do though, even an idiot like me could do a decent job i'd imagine. i was simply pointing out that this collection of notes is the juxtaposition of one scale over another one. from there you can analyze the melody more easily. 

4 hours ago, vkxwz said:

And earlier you said music theory says how music works, i'd argue that it just describes the structure of music but doesnt say much of anything about "how" it works. The best it can do there is try to explain some subjective feelings by comparing the structure to the structure of other music thats linked to those feelings.

wow, super deep bro. 

i'm not interested in this conversation, have a good one.

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