Cereals

[SR4]

i must say fitz, you are an incredibly intriguing poster.

[YEK]

life cereal is good and golden grahams and and and

[chenGOD]

Yo the body produces insulin in response to any sort of calories. Milk be high in saturated fat. Ergo - you get fat.

From the conclusion of the PDF you posted a link to:

Cereal grains obviously can be included in moderate amounts in the diets

of most people without any noticeable, deleterious health effects, and herein

lies their strength. When combined with a variety of both animal- and plant-

based foods, they provide a cheap and plentiful caloric source, capable of

sustaining and promoting human life.

 

Yo, me and you are on the same page regarding empty carbs, but like I said, if cereal were really responsible for all sorts of terrible things, we'd be all dropping dead a long time ago.

[lumpenprol]

hey fiznuthian,

 

I'm also a fan of your diet-related posts, they always provide something to chew on ( )

 

What do you think of oatmeal? I always start my morning with some oatmeal with some raisins and brown sugar tossed in, and milk on top. I have high blood pressure and heard oatmeal could help (or maybe it just promotes general heart health, anyhoo...)

 

Thoughts?

[Guest fiznuthian]

Yo the body produces insulin in response to any sort of calories. Milk be high in saturated fat. Ergo - you get fat.

From the conclusion of the PDF you posted a link to:

Cereal grains obviously can be included in moderate amounts in the diets

of most people without any noticeable, deleterious health effects, and herein

lies their strength. When combined with a variety of both animal- and plant-

based foods, they provide a cheap and plentiful caloric source, capable of

sustaining and promoting human life.

 

Yo, me and you are on the same page regarding empty carbs, but like I said, if cereal were really responsible for all sorts of terrible things, we'd be all dropping dead a long time ago.

 

We've been consuming them for 10,000+ years now and the gene pool is developing adaptations.. Some people can and do consume grains to no effect.

The problem is the majority do not, and can not control their appetite for grain based foods.

 

You are right, calories in excess will produce excess insulin. Insulin is also almost always being produced by the body at all times. It's a master hormone that controls other hormones and we need it 24/7 to regulate fat metabolism.

What I should have specified is that milk, sugars, highly-processed grains: they are highly insulinogenic. After consuming these foods your body runs rampant with insulin and unfortunately most of it is unable to be utilized properly, hence why I discuss fat storage and removal. Excess protein will also stimulate insulin production but even a meat heavy diet usually doesn't go overboard of protein in ratio to dietary fats unless you just refuse to eat anything but lean meats.

Just check out and compare the glycemic load of a piece of whole grain bread and most and fruit. Very different results yet both have similar glycemic index. Whole grain bread still easily sends serum glucose soaring.

 

Also saturated fat consumption will very, very rarely make a person fat in the context of a low-moderate carbohydrate diet.

The idea that eating FAT will make you FAT because they are the same word just does not hold true scientifically. Fat is a caloric bomb, this is true.

But for fats to deposit as adipose tissue and and stay there for long, insulin must not be doing it's job properly to regulate fat metabolism.

Otherwise they will deposit and subsequently be removed from storage on a constant basis.

[Guest fiznuthian]

hey fiznuthian,

 

I'm also a fan of your diet-related posts, they always provide something to chew on ( )

 

What do you think of oatmeal? I always start my morning with some oatmeal with some raisins and brown sugar tossed in, and milk on top. I have high blood pressure and heard oatmeal could help (or maybe it just promotes general heart health, anyhoo...)

 

Thoughts?

 

Oatmeal of all of the grains and in its whole form has a relatively loweish glycemic load, a little bit of sweetener shouldn't hurt you unless you're completely sedentary and refuse to increase your basal metabolic rate at all. Milk is highly insulinogenic for most people, some get lucky and develop a tolerance quickly. I believe this is a particular protein that causes the insulin response. Whether milk is consumed to no effect largely depends on you and your origin.

Oatmeal has a lot of beta-glucan, a soluble fibre polysaccharide. Useful for controlling cholesterol production.

But remember not every cholesterol is the same, and you want more HDL with less of only one type of LDL, the small-dense LDL particles. Big fluffy LDL particles are not harmful.

 

I am weary of oats as well as all grains contain significant amounts of anti-nutrients.. Oats in particular are high in phytates.

There's an old tradition though of soaking grains for 24 hours before cooking and consuming them. This is useful for deactivating phytate binding affinity, thus allowing you to reap the rewards of minerals present. It's odd to me that company's fortify cereals, their premise being to supply mineral nutrients in our diet which we absolutely need to bone health among many other things.

Unfortunately those minerals bind and become unavailable on their journey through the human intestines, so the majority of the Western world continues to walk around daily with some form of mineral deficiency even after the multi-vitamins.

 

I can't say much about blood pressure, haven't read much yet. A nutrient dense diet can do nothing but help, excess carbs will produce a stress response -> cortisol hormone. Stress for obvious reasons is not a good thing for hypertension.

[Guest fiznuthian]

i must say fitz, you are an incredibly intriguing poster.

 

I just think that it is important people know these things because the scientific literature has been around for a long time now,

yet most is being deliberately overlooked and underfunded still in 2012 because our public health agencies refuse to admit they not entirely correct yet.

Whether this has anything to do with corporate interest in cereal grains like corn, their subsidization, etc well you guys can make your mind up with that. I don't have a political agenda and have no monetary interests either. Information is freely available on the Internet now thanks to pubmed and people mirroring literature.

Degenerative diseases and other ailments common to Western people now especially post-millenia simply do not have rarely ever existed in people eating native diets. Animals in the wild rarely fall over dead from heart disease and humans for the most part didn't either a mere century or two ago. Infection, war, pre-industrial struggles, birthing problems, and aggressive wild animals would make life difficult but eating plants and animals kept people fit and mobile.

 

If any of you own a dog, take them off of their grain-based food and feed them a grain-free food with omega 3s, veggies, fruit, nutrients..

Don't be shy feeding them, calories don't matter much.. Let em eat well once or twice a day.

Even more expensive but fascinating is feeding fatty raw meaty bones, veggies, and fruits. Let them eat the marrow.

Same results though.. If you have an obese, lethargic, or arthritic dog now you won't think he's the same animal soon

[chenGOD]

Yo the body produces insulin in response to any sort of calories. Milk be high in saturated fat. Ergo - you get fat.

From the conclusion of the PDF you posted a link to:

Cereal grains obviously can be included in moderate amounts in the diets

of most people without any noticeable, deleterious health effects, and herein

lies their strength. When combined with a variety of both animal- and plant-

based foods, they provide a cheap and plentiful caloric source, capable of

sustaining and promoting human life.

 

Yo, me and you are on the same page regarding empty carbs, but like I said, if cereal were really responsible for all sorts of terrible things, we'd be all dropping dead a long time ago.

 

We've been consuming them for 10,000+ years now and the gene pool is developing adaptations.. Some people can and do consume grains to no effect.

The problem is the majority do not, and can not control their appetite for grain based foods.

 

You are right, calories in excess will produce excess insulin. Insulin is also almost always being produced by the body at all times. It's a master hormone that controls other hormones and we need it 24/7 to regulate fat metabolism.

What I should have specified is that milk, sugars, highly-processed grains: they are highly insulinogenic. After consuming these foods your body runs rampant with insulin and unfortunately most of it is unable to be utilized properly, hence why I discuss fat storage and removal. Excess protein will also stimulate insulin production but even a meat heavy diet usually doesn't go overboard of protein in ratio to dietary fats unless you just refuse to eat anything but lean meats.

Just check out and compare the glycemic load of a piece of whole grain bread and most and fruit. Very different results yet both have similar glycemic index. Whole grain bread still easily sends serum glucose soaring.

 

Also saturated fat consumption will very, very rarely make a person fat in the context of a low-moderate carbohydrate diet.

The idea that eating FAT will make you FAT because they are the same word just does not hold true scientifically. Fat is a caloric bomb, this is true.

But for fats to deposit as adipose tissue and and stay there for long, insulin must not be doing it's job properly to regulate fat metabolism.

Otherwise they will deposit and subsequently be removed from storage on a constant basis.

there's some good literature on how saturated fat and insulin react to promote "fattiness", I'll dig it up after I finish this paper tonight.

I gotta take issue with the statement I emphasized - and I reiterate that if the majority of people could not consume grains healthily, we would have certainly adopted defense mechanisms. But with the majority of the world's population consuming cereal grains (think rice, sorghum (jowar especially)), and suffering no ill-effects, I would have to disagree with you fundamentally that cereal grains are not an appropriate food.

[Hautlle]

[youtubehd]5ahlawrQHeA[/youtubehd]

[BobDobalina]

fuck, I love cereal and this thread is turning my life upside down. Fiz, just tell me what I should eat and what I should feed my newborn daughter and cats (respectively, that is if there isn't any overlap).

kthnx!

[Guest boo]

barley? sourdough?

[HoA]

fuck, I love cereal and this thread is turning my life upside down. Fiz, just tell me what I should eat and what I should feed my newborn daughter and cats (respectively, that is if there isn't any overlap).

kthnx!

 

Drink distilled water if you can.

[Guest fiznuthian]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19828709

 

 

CONCLUSIONS:

 

We found no significant association between the amount or type of dietary fat and subsequent weight change in this large prospective study. These findings do not support the use of low-fat diets to prevent weight gain.

 

Chen this was from a 90,000 participant study. The results are not consistent with the theory that saturated fat contributes to weight gain or that saturated fat rich diets make a person fat.

The French and the Masai eat saturated fat rich diets generally and they have reputations for being lean.

 

Here's another trial where both low-carb and the mediterranean diet models (both fat rich diet models) were effective for weight loss, favorable lipid profiles, and other metabolic health markers.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18635428

 

Here's a 12 week trial using the paleolithic diet model.. once again, the paleo group lost significant weight and the added bonus of improved metabolic function in obese diabetic and pre-diabetic patients.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17583796

 

 

Saturated fats on their own do not provoke a post-meal insulin response though, and their effect on insulin sensitivity is near non-existent. Carbs do provoke post-meal insulin responses, but do not necessarily cause a person to become insulin resistant. Chen you once busted my balls about non-western tribes eating high-carb veggie diets, thriving, and I have no come to find you were right. Carbohydrates in an of themselves are not harmful, in fact under healthy metabolic circumstances it seems they're great for us. Insulin, however, drives fat storage and carbohydrates that elevate serum glucose too high post-meal will make the conversion into fatty acid and if continued insulin resistance is likely. High glycemic load foods or any food that converts rapidly to elevate blood sugar and hard spikes insulin after eating are primarily the reason why fat people are fat.. Insulin resistance is rough shit, but the discovery that the brain's hypothalamus helps regulate insulin and metabolic function makes a fat person's life that much more difficult. This suggests food reward is also a contributing factor, and the Western world is chock full of highly palatable, high food-reward foods.. sugary sweets, pizza, sauces, etc..

As I have mentioned before the hormones leptin and grehlin are important for regulating hunger, appetite, and metabolism. Their relationship to insulin is also worth considering in the discussion of weight gain.

Leptin replacement therapies have been fascinating thus far and have been incredibly successful treating obese patients.

 

Essentially what I limited myself to food wise are saturated fats, meat, vegetables, fruit, tubers.. in their whole form, cooked some raw.

Waking up in the morning in a mild ketosis with a low fasting insulin level, glycogen depleted, and eating a processed grain cereal that rapidly elevates blood sugar is just not a good idea. Eating some toast with it makes matters worse, with white bread being the worst offender.

A better option for carbs in the morning are fruits.. An apple, some berries, banana. I like to blend them into coconut milk smoothies for a medium chain saturated fat and carb combo that burns high-octane.

Juice lacks the fiber to slow down the sugars in the fruit. A big glass of OJ is a fructose bomb on your liver and you're almost better off drinking soda. Juice can easily send serum glucose levels soaring. Insulin goes nuts.

French toast, pancakes, muffins, etc.. these foods have ridiculous glycemic loads and will easily make you fat.

[HoA]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJWVsdG1Gg8

[Guest couch]

I like mah Wheaties, usually with sliced bananas.

[cloud capture]

I'm addicted to yogurt and berries.

[jules]

man I need to lose about 10 pounds, I should pay fiz to make me a diet plan

[Guest fiznuthian]

 

Meats don't have to be grass-fed if you can't afford it. Grass-fed dairy is strongly preferred but once again optional if you tolerate dairy well anyway and a lot of people do.

But yeah, this is my meats, vegetables, fruits, and fats plan and it fucking rules.

Don't even have to count calories, just restrict some carbs and most anyone without a metabolic disorder will lose weight steadily.

 

Jules if you like the whole "give a diet a shot" thing a lot of people do this: http://whole9life.com/category/whole-30/

It's the same thing essentially, and a lot of people aren't returning back to their previous lifestyle.

 

You'd be suprised how enjoyable eating this way is.. it doesn't feel restrictive because you're free to eat anything you wish, just cooking it all up with whole farm fresh food.

Giving up bread is probably the hardest, some people don't go 100%. I feel my best when i'm grain-free for a few weeks so that's what I do.

[chenGOD]

fiz - fair enough, I'm not willing to put in the time to research opposite conclusions. I'm just saying that there's not really a conclusive definition of best diet :)

 

Jules - the last 10 pounds is the hardest to get off and then keep off - just keep at it. Don't count calories, you just add stress. Just take it easy on the desserts, not too many mcnuggets and you'll be alright :)

[chaosmachine]

I like these:

 

 

there is only one ingredient: shredded wheat.

[Guest fiznuthian]

fiz - fair enough, I'm not willing to put in the time to research opposite conclusions. I'm just saying that there's not really a conclusive definition of best diet :)

 

Jules - the last 10 pounds is the hardest to get off and then keep off - just keep at it. Don't count calories, you just add stress. Just take it easy on the desserts, not too many mcnuggets and you'll be alright :)

 

Yeah, it's cool. Probably at some point we would reach, in war of scientific citation, a middle ground where it become obvious that we are long-time omnivorous creatures capable of adapting to a wide variety of diets. There is strong evidence suggesting we have not yet adapted to one consisting of quickly digestable sugars and grains, but yes some people tolerate foods better than others. Or they seem to at first anyway. It is good that you give me a hard time though Chen, I am not correct about everything or certainly shouldn't be yet.

[Guest fiznuthian]

 

Nice lecture from Stanford for anyone interested