True facts of music making

[Guest Blanket Fort Collapse]

Yeah, on the whole buying tons of gear thing, I think it's the worst idea for most people who haven't already shown the patience and drive to learn something as convenient as software. I had a buddy that's going to prison for drugs, he would always get so excited when I would spend time showing him exactly how to use software, he had everything he needed and I taught him everything, but he would rarely spend the time to just get comfortable with his software and midi controllers. Is lack of creativity and productivity got embarrassingly dramatically worse when he started buying all sorts of gear that takes much longer to configure, more space to setup, more time to learn and less ease of saving your settings for recall later. Even if you can setup your gear perfectly in a studio and keep it perfectly setup for over a year I don't see how people think it's going to make the process of making music any easier. For some I guess it might seem more fun or more inspiring but I would be shocked if people that didn't get a lot done with software all of a sudden started being more productive once they bought a bunch of gear.

 

I mean midi controllers are different story, adding some tactile tools can make things quicker but, a bunch of gear you have to rig up is usually cumbersome for most.

[sweepstakes]

Even if you can setup your gear perfectly in a studio and keep it perfectly setup for over a year I don't see how people think it's going to make the process of making music any easier.

 

I think that's exactly how you're going to make the music process easier, whether you're computer-based or gear-based... or am I missing something?

 

I agree that it's good to stick with software for a while before buying hardware, and to stick with it if it's working out. But there are some serious advantages to having even just one or two things to fart with around that aren't completely assimilated into the computer. The way you interact with musical tools is very important and it needs to be somewhat satisfying. And computers alone just don't cut it for lots of folks, myself included.

[Guest mollekula]

Great thread guys

[Guest Blanket Fort Collapse]

Yeah sweepstakes I use a lot more than computers and midi controllers too but my life is comfortable enough to have a good studio that I've spent a lot of time in. I could have worded that a lot more carefully, didn't really spend anytime thinking it out or anything. Most musicians don't really have the environment, space or stability to have a studio setup really well for more than a year from what I've seen. I just think people should prove to themselves that they can be really productive with a very minimalistic setup before they buy a bunch of gear. I've seen too many friends buy a lot of gear because they feel like it will motivate them more, it nearly always ends up with them being much less productive.

 

If they have already taking a minimalistic setup really far and been pretty productive. I certainly would encourage them to expand their device horizons. It's kinda like how I feel about people who go to school for music or the arts, and they have barely put any effort into that craft on their own....

[sweepstakes]

Yeah sweepstakes I use a lot more than computers and midi controllers too but my life is comfortable enough to have a good studio that I've spent a lot of time in. I could have worded that a lot more carefully, didn't really spend anytime thinking it out or anything. Most musicians don't really have the environment, space or stability to have a studio setup really well for more than a year from what I've seen. I just think people should prove to themselves that they can be really productive with a very minimalistic setup before they buy a bunch of gear. I've seen too many friends buy a lot of gear because they feel like it will motivate them more, it nearly always ends up with them being much less productive.

 

If they have already taking a minimalistic setup really far and been pretty productive. I certainly would encourage them to expand their device horizons. It's kinda like how I feel about people who go to school for music or the arts, and they have barely put any effort into that craft on their own....

 

Now THIS I completely agree with.

 

When I first started really getting into hardware, I had an Electribe EA-1, an RY-30 and a Quadraverb and that was my "setup" for about a year. I had already gone through a few pieces of gear but that was when it really clicked for me. I figured out lots of tricks that way, just trying to get the most out of it. After that I became a gear whore and I am still recovering, but I digress...

 

I would recommend this kind of experience to anyone trying to make music - getting some very modest gear that makes sounds you can express yourself with but that you still have to work hard to pull things out of. I still try to do this when I jam, to only use about the bare minimum I need to make some sounds I like. This is partly out of laziness and partly because it's fun and inspiring to try to pull sounds out of a very small amount of gear, especially cheap gear. It can be thrilling when you know that it's you that made this awesome sound and not the fancy gear. For this reason, I have a lot of respect for people who can make good music with things like handheld game consoles.

 

In fact, to me, this is almost an argument against computers, not against hardware. But if you are just talking about an excess of hardware, I agree that can be really overwhelming and paralyzing.

[Cryptowen]

Generally speaking there's a pretty consistent correlation between how much I used a computer in the making of a track & how satisfied I am with it. I love using analog sound sources & nature noises & such, but the tracks where I actually try to make it with primarily gear I'll usually end up thinking "ehhh....it's educational I guess", whereas the tracks where I'm in the zone stringing effects chains together in Buzz & constantly trying out different approaches without hassle are the ones I'll listen to & think "oh crap I made that"

 

I guess I'm just a software person.

[Hautlle]

Generally speaking there's a pretty consistent correlation between how much I used a computer in the making of a track & how satisfied I am with it. I love using analog sound sources & nature noises & such, but the tracks where I actually try to make it with primarily gear I'll usually end up thinking "ehhh....it's educational I guess", whereas the tracks where I'm in the zone stringing effects chains together in Buzz & constantly trying out different approaches without hassle are the ones I'll listen to & think "oh crap I made that"

 

I guess I'm just a software person.

 

 

This is much how I am too. Love when you get something unexpected from the same set of fx or whatever that you always use. I twiddle around on my analog synth alot, but I use that same kind of mindset, always looking for quirks. More to amuse myself than anything, I guess. I basically just find sounds that I think are cool and put them together (generic quote from any musician/producer ever)

[marf]

use what inspires you! i think this is a common struggle for people into this kind of music. its not like picking up a guitar and laying around fiddling with your instrument. (pun). This stuff is a little more complicated ergonomically. Hooking things up properly is a challenge. Its more cerebral and less about physicality which is what music making has been for so many years. so its normal to feel frustrated at times when dealing with work flow and inspiration

[ZoeB]

In fact, to me, this is almost an argument against computers, not against hardware.

 

Maybe it's an argument against romanticising any particular tools used to make music, in favour of practicing the craft?

[Guest Blanket Fort Collapse]

Well yeah, I really wasn't trying to make this about computers and midi controllers vs. hardware. What I was trying to say is don't add too much tools to your arsenal before you're ready in general, by that I also mean don't add too many VSTs to your computer. My friend just kept wanting more VSTs to try as well, kept asking for more VSTs, the more I gave him, the less productive he got. He was probably confused that he was given all these amazing VSTs and that wasn't making him more productive so he started by gear, the problem got worse.

 

The point is don't look desperately for new things to give you creativity, be it alcohol, drugs, gear, VSTs. Sure life experiences can help but there is more creativity, inspiration, drive, love, hate, talent in people than anyone really ever fully believes.

 

You're trying to find the best expression of what's going on inside yourself, not what is inside the endless butt hole of finding new things to dick with.

[Guest Blanket Fort Collapse]

............But I dunno if there are any real "True facts of music making" what works for some people doesn't work for other people. Some people need a lot of experimentation before they find their way. Some people just need to go as far as they can with their first simple setup and make it theirs. Different strokes for different folks.

[marf]

im all for buying expensive gear. at least you get first hand knowledge of what quality gear is supposed to sound like and be like to use. Experience is always good. you can always sell it

[Rotwang]

You're trying to find the best expression of what's going on inside yourself, not what is inside the endless butt hole of finding new things to dick with.

I see this kind of sentiment a lot, and I'd say my experience is the opposite - often the best things I've produced aren't things that were in my head that I managed to make real, they're things I discovered by experimenting (usually in the process of trying to make something else). That doesn't necessarily involve acquiring more synths or software of course, I imagine the possibilities with a decent DAW are effectively limitless.

[sweepstakes]

You're trying to find the best expression of what's going on inside yourself, not what is inside the endless butt hole of finding new things to dick with.

I see this kind of sentiment a lot, and I'd say my experience is the opposite - often the best things I've produced aren't things that were in my head that I managed to make real, they're things I discovered by experimenting (usually in the process of trying to make something else). That doesn't necessarily involve acquiring more synths or software of course, I imagine the possibilities with a decent DAW are effectively limitless.

Yeah, this. I enjoy myself and the results the most when I'm improvising or just reacting to whatever musical environment I find myself in, "playing it as it lays." Someone wrote an essay a while back (maybe Eno?) that I appreciated, criticizing the old fantasy of translating thought directly to sound. I think lots of folks dream of this but it's the most dreary creative process imaginable.

 

Yes, we all want to express ourselves. But your true self isn't what's in your head, it's the feedback loop between you and your environment. When you use tools, the tools are a part of you.

 

If by "new things to dick with" you're just talking about new gear/toys as opposed to new environments, situations, or even patches or sequences, then yeah, new gear is often just a distraction. Although some gear can make a big qualitative difference, like portable things you can take on the bus or train (which tend, for me, to remove excuses for not making music), or things that are limited in ways that force you to apply different strategies and experiment in ways you otherwise wouldn't.

[Rotwang]

Yes, we all want to express ourselves. But your true self isn't what's in your head, it's the feedback loop between you and your environment.

Nicely put.

[marf]

 

Best advice Ive ever heard, If you don't enjoy the process do something else.

 

I wanted to play the piano, but I totally enjoy playing the guitar. Playing the piano feels like work even though I wanted to make piano music,. I gave up. I just Do now, I play the guitar constantly. Same with gear. Some gear I hate some I love. If you are having trouble try and find the current in the stream that feels good. Ride the wave

[Alcofribas]

 

In fact, to me, this is almost an argument against computers, not against hardware.

Maybe it's an argument against romanticising any particular tools used to make music, in favour of practicing the craft?

 

 

Zoe B, nail on head.

 

 

 Someone wrote an essay a while back (maybe Eno?) that I appreciated, criticizing the old fantasy of translating thought directly to sound.

 

 

 

are you thinking of this piece by mark fell? www.thewire.co.uk/in-writing/essays/collateral-damage-mark-fell

[modey]

Although some gear can make a big qualitative difference, like portable things you can take on the bus or train (which tend, for me, to remove excuses for not making music), or things that are limited in ways that force you to apply different strategies and experiment in ways you otherwise wouldn't.

yeah, I think these are the main reasons why I've written more stuff with nanoloop 2 than with any of my expensive gear. With nanoloop I can take it out anywhere, and have to put effort in to make it not sound chippy, and make it sound full enough to not be able to tell it was made on a gameboy :D it's very inspiring.

 

 

I wanted to play the piano, but I totally enjoy playing the guitar. Playing the piano feels like work even though I wanted to make piano music,. I gave up. I just Do now, I play the guitar constantly.

ahh I really want to get a piano so I can force myself to learn. It's such a lovely instrument compared to the 6-note polyphony and limited range of a guitar. Having said that, I haven't played guitar regularly in years; I really should get back into it. I have this weird fantasy of spending a year, or maybe 6 months, away from electronic music, and working on my classical technique, with the aim of writing some more classical guitar pieces and compiling them into an album.. maybe one day, when I'm like 40 or something :P

 

 

If you are having trouble try and find the current in the stream that feels good. Ride the wave

This is true in a way, but I think it's important to always look for new challenges. This does result in decreased productivity, but I think the end result is more satisfying than pumping out the same genre over and over.

[auxien]

 

Yes, we all want to express ourselves. But your true self isn't what's in your head, it's the feedback loop between you and your environment.

Nicely put.

 

Agreed. *high fives sweepstakes, sincerely*

[sweepstakes]

 

 

 

 

Yes, we all want to express ourselves. But your true self isn't what's in your head, it's the feedback loop between you and your environment.

Nicely put.

Agreed. *high fives sweepstakes, sincerely*

*high five*

[sweepstakes]

 

 

 

Someone wrote an essay a while back (maybe Eno?) that I appreciated, criticizing the old fantasy of translating thought directly to sound.

 

are you thinking of this piece by mark fell? www.thewire.co.uk/in-writing/essays/collateral-damage-mark-fell

Spot on! I love his writing - he inspired me to pick up Being and Time although I haven't mustered the courage to try to read it yet lol

[xox]

expressing myself? as if it's about me? hope not. my best tracks are not about me. i pray for the day when i'll be gone from my music forever

 

edit: not cause i hate myself or anything like that

[Alcofribas]

philip glass has mentioned this from time to time:

 

“When I talk to young composers, I tell them, I know that you’re all worried about finding your voice. Actually you’re going to find your voice. By the time you’re 30, you’ll find it. But that’s not the problem. The problem is getting rid of it. You have to find an engine for change.”

 

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/10/07/magazine/philip-glass-and-beck-discuss-collaborating-on-rework.html

[marf]

If you are having trouble try and find the current in the stream that feels good. Ride the wave

This is true in a way, but I think it's important to always look for new challenges. This does result in decreased productivity, but I think the end result is more satisfying than pumping out the same genre over and over.

 

 

---------------

 

Not what I mean. Just the look of something can turn me off. It doesn't have to be tied to some genre. Some instruments have an aura  to me and Im drawn to them. They look cool. 

Not knowing is also the fun. Gear that isn't straight up . You never know what the sequencer will come up with is fun.

Strange I know.

Playing the guitar just feels good to me. I like the feeling of the strings

 

I have no keyboards in my studio. None. They turn me off. (maybe because I had to practice s a kid)

 

I think of music as pictures first, Textures. What instrument I use doesnt matter because you always have effects and ways to work around something. I have a 303, I love the way it looks. Its a challenge to make something with that instrument that isn't hackneyed, but you can do so much with it. Challenging myself with something I dont even want to touch isnt going to happen .It's like starting a diet you hate. You won't last

[sweepstakes]

philip glass has mentioned this from time to time:

 

“When I talk to young composers, I tell them, I know that you’re all worried about finding your voice. Actually you’re going to find your voice. By the time you’re 30, you’ll find it. But that’s not the problem. The problem is getting rid of it. You have to find an engine for change.”

 

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/10/07/magazine/philip-glass-and-beck-discuss-collaborating-on-rework.html

I love this:

It was Arthur Russell. And he was a very good cellist. I was doing a theater piece for the Mabou Mines, it was some Beckett piece, and I wrote him a cello piece, and he liked the work and was playing it. And I came back about three months later, and I heard it and I said, “Arthur, that’s beautiful, but what happened to the piece?” And he said, “No, no, that is what you wrote,” and I said, “Arthur, it’s no longer what I wrote, it’s your piece now.” And he thought I was being upset, he apologized and I said, “No, no, no, I think we should put you down as the composer.” He had reached the point of transformation. The incremental changes had turned it into this other thing. I love the fact that he did that. And I love the fact that he didn’t know that he did it.