True facts of music making

[auxien]

I love this:

 

It was Arthur Russell. And he was a very good cellist. I was doing a theater piece for the Mabou Mines, it was some Beckett piece, and I wrote him a cello piece, and he liked the work and was playing it. And I came back about three months later, and I heard it and I said, “Arthur, that’s beautiful, but what happened to the piece?” And he said, “No, no, that is what you wrote,” and I said, “Arthur, it’s no longer what I wrote, it’s your piece now.” And he thought I was being upset, he apologized and I said, “No, no, no, I think we should put you down as the composer.” He had reached the point of transformation. The incremental changes had turned it into this other thing. I love the fact that he did that. And I love the fact that he didn’t know that he did it.

 

Love little stories like that.

[Polytrix]

Record everything and commit to stuff. I'm guilty of just about every piece of criticism on here but you know what, I don't care! Have fun!

 

 

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[Claudius t Ansuulim]

Agreed. I strongly disagree with this sentiment I hear bandied about that “there’s too much music”. Impossible. Music = Life. A celebration of existence. Humans are a dull metric, I place more value on my interactions with nature and the few times I’ve managed to transcend the species barrier and elicit responses from the animal kingdom (and beyond)

[Polytrix]

Well said!

 

Music=language.Some of us are just better linguists than others :P

[drukqs]

How many people on this forum started making electronic music with no previous experience in making music?

[koolkeyZ865]

How many people on this forum started making electronic music with no previous experience in making music?

still haven't gone outside that field yet. Although I do use a bass guitar, if that counts as something from the outside

[Tricone RC]

Just come up with a decent melody innit, the rest will follow

[drukqs]

still haven't gone outside that field yet. Although I do use a bass guitar, if that counts as something from the outside

That does count I think. Were you playing it before you started? I mean, I was in a percussion class for a few years in high school and loved it. A lot of exposure to African rhythm but I wish I would have dedicated myself to it more. There wasn't much sheet music or music theory in the class, a lot of it was by ear as that's the nature of learning African rhythms but I wish I would have sought out the music theory side of it more.

 

My question really is how do you reconcile your love of it with your lack of experience? I struggle with this a lot. How valid is the adage of "if you enjoy it, do it"? I mean, I'm not saying it's good to be bullheaded and just make shit music if you enjoy the sound, because that's a recipe for becoming a madman who babbles to himself in the corner... I think it's good to study music theory and actually post your stuff for criticism. But do you ever feel sometimes that you're just making shit and you have no hope of ever getting better? I've been feeling that dread creep up on me lately and it's hard to shake off. Guess just keep trying, be curious, and be open to criticism?

[koolkeyZ865]

 

still haven't gone outside that field yet. Although I do use a bass guitar, if that counts as something from the outside

That does count I think. Were you playing it before you started? I mean, I was in a percussion class for a few years in high school and loved it. A lot of exposure to African rhythm but I wish I would have dedicated myself to it more. There wasn't much sheet music or music theory in the class, a lot of it was by ear as that's the nature of learning African rhythms but I wish I would have sought out the music theory side of it more.

 

My question really is how do you reconcile your love of it with your lack of experience? I struggle with this a lot. How valid is the adage of "if you enjoy it, do it"? I mean, I'm not saying it's good to be bullheaded and just make shit music if you enjoy the sound, because that's a recipe for becoming a madman who babbles to himself in the corner... I think it's good to study music theory and actually post your stuff for criticism. But do you ever feel sometimes that you're just making shit and you have no hope of ever getting better? I've been feeling that dread creep up on me lately and it's hard to shake off. Guess just keep trying, be curious, and be open to criticism?

 

Nope, only picked it up after the fact. Basically, the best advice that I can give you is to give yourself limits. When you have no goals, no direction, and infinite possibilities, usually nothing gets done and you end up feeling like shit. The best way to understand music theory for me anyway would be to start out small. Work within 4/4 and play monophonically until you feel comfortable with more complex time sigs and chords. Try to be creative within your limited box and try to break out of it by bending the rules that you gave it. Also try to make shit tracks on purpose

[thawkins]

 

My question really is how do you reconcile your love of it with your lack of experience? I struggle with this a lot. How valid is the adage of "if you enjoy it, do it"? I mean, I'm not saying it's good to be bullheaded and just make shit music if you enjoy the sound, because that's a recipe for becoming a madman who babbles to himself in the corner... I think it's good to study music theory and actually post your stuff for criticism. But do you ever feel sometimes that you're just making shit and you have no hope of ever getting better? I've been feeling that dread creep up on me lately and it's hard to shake off. Guess just keep trying, be curious, and be open to criticism?

 

 

I have thought about this as well, and my conclusion is that "if you enjoy it, do it" is pretty much true. I do not think knowing or not knowing music theory really matters at this point, because you do not need to know any theory to enjoy listening to music. And as long as you can critically listen to your own material and compare it to things you already like, the basic listen-create-listen loop already works and any theory or skills you learn will make it even better and more awesome.

 

I would not worry about becoming a madman who babbles to himself in the corner, because in my opinion having an unique sound and musical style and being really into it makes you into one anyways. I think unless you start living off your music, you should mostly try to do your own thing that pleases you the most, because it is your unique taste and person which makes the music really unique. Besides, my personal experience is that what sounds like babbling madman stuff to one person, can sound like the best magical and amazing thing to me, and I have plenty of examples like that actually happening.

[TubularCorporation]

Yeah I was going to say, "be bullheaded and just make shit music if you enjoy the sound, because that's a recipe for becoming a madman who babbles to himself in the corner" sounds like instructions for how to make music I'd probably like.

[Claudius t Ansuulim]

I don’t know what “shit music” is, music is by it’s very nature subjective, unless you wanna use shit metrics like hits, plays, listener retention, and sales as your means of objective measure. Which in my opinion are all garbage as there are plenty of artists/albums/songs that are wildly popular that I would consider illegal by Geneva Convention standards. I loathe the “there’s too much X type of music” argument I hear bandied about, I’d rather people spend their time/energy making music than any of the very very long list of fucked up things humans do. Beauty and the Beholder, pursue your musical passions with wreckless abandon cuz time in yr present form is finite

[Guest]

If you lose your self when creating, it's doing good. Trying to make good art puts your self front and center which makes the creative process laborious. There is a joy to be found in labor if there is freedom of discovery, but there isn't as much joy if the product is constrained to an expected form. Dance like no one's watching.

[fxbip]

1-Do it with all your heart and guts,be honest in what you do ,do what you love and it will be enough.

Go for artistic goal first,inner achievement first,like being happy with the tracks you make,making the kind of track you want to do,feeling music deeply,being able to go deep in the flow while creating,enjoying the process, because this is what is the most rewarding in music imo.

Everything else,whether success,praise,money,labels,shows etc everything else will become secondary.

 

2-Develop a sense of i-dont-give-a-fuck about what you do.Do your thing.Be an Electro Punk.Take praise with humility and be detached from negativity.That way you wont be depressed like crazy if you dont sell a copy of that album you love,if you get harsh criticism or hate.Gives freedom from that external shit.

 

3-Learn to be decent in an instrument.Improvise.Learn theory, scales,modes,chords,intervals,its very important to know about this,these are tools and not rules they give freedom.Go beyond triad harmony,dont only make melodies based on a chord,free the melodyyyyyyyyyyy!!!

 

4-Learn to EQ.Leave headroom.Dont compress to much on mastering.

 

5-Connect locally with local musicians and artist.Connect on the web with musicians and artists.

 

6-Work,work,work.But work with love so you always want to keep doing it.

[Cryptowen]

"like//dislike" is very subjective in my mind. most of the art that's impacted my life the most i either passed right by at first, or would have if i hadn't been at exactly the right point in my development. i hear plenty of stuff that makes me go "oh this would have blown my mind five years ago, but other artists filled that role for me & now I'm at a point of wanting something completely different". my own music i regularly oscillate between thinking "wow this is really good, really special" and "damn shit i'm just not very good at music" ... actually tbh it's mostly just the first & not so much the second these days, the more accurate second option would be going through phases of disliking all art, my own included. but that's an important too! once you've done this stuff for years you'll probably reach a point where you can very effortless put together sounds that appeal to you, and sometimes you might start taking that for granted or fearing that what you're doing now isn't "as real" as when it took a lot of effort & discovery to make something satisfying

[Auditor]

 

 

3-Learn to be decent in an instrument.Improvise.Learn theory, scales,modes,chords,intervals,its very important to know about this,these are tools and not rules they give freedom.Go beyond triad harmony,dont only make melodies based on a chord,free the melodyyyyyyyyyyy!!!

 

 

I've been focusing on this aspect lately and it's been paying dividends (not financially, but creatively). I used to have the attitude that learning theory would lead to bland compositions, and would liberally quote Lou Reed: "If its more than three chords, its jazz". Well, that shit couldn't be further from the truth. 

[fxbip]

 

 

 

3-Learn to be decent in an instrument.Improvise.Learn theory, scales,modes,chords,intervals,its very important to know about this,these are tools and not rules they give freedom.Go beyond triad harmony,dont only make melodies based on a chord,free the melodyyyyyyyyyyy!!!

 

 

I've been focusing on this aspect lately and it's been paying dividends (not financially, but creatively). I used to have the attitude that learning theory would lead to bland compositions, and would liberally quote Lou Reed: "If its more than three chords, its jazz". Well, that shit couldn't be further from the truth. 

 

Yeah me too,i used to be the same.

It's because of the idea that theory are rules to be followed that will impose on you a rigid structure.

I had that fear that i would be bound in some way by rules or something.

But i was wrong:it gives tremendous freedom,tremendous freedom to go in lots of directions.It opens so many doors!

They are only TOOLS,TOOLS that will help you contruct and discontruct music in every way imaginable.

It's like having the whole set of construction tools instead of only a few.

You can build a lot more stuff with that.

[Auditor]

Agreed. To break the rules best, you should know what they are first!

 

Also, I came to the realization a while back that if I want to make music my main passion, why the hell wouldn't I learn everything I could about it? 

[drukqs]

I've been learning a bit of music theory whereas before I was pretty well afraid of doing so, for the same reasons others discussed earlier. Are there any resources -online or otherwise - that you have found translate well to electronic composition?

 

Also, do you find that it's helpful to get out of the DAW and practice piano or something, or is it more helpful to stick with inboard or outboard drum machines and synths? I guess it depends on what kind of music you make but say if you aren't planning on using a piano or keyboard in your production, is it still helpful to learn a traditional instrument; or are there diminishing returns on that, given the amount of time that it takes to learn proper technique when instead you could be sharpening your skills making tracks in a DAW?

[flacid]

f e e l 

i t

[fxbip]

I've been learning a bit of music theory whereas before I was pretty well afraid of doing so, for the same reasons others discussed earlier. Are there any resources -online or otherwise - that you have found translate well to electronic composition?

 

Also, do you find that it's helpful to get out of the DAW and practice piano or something, or is it more helpful to stick with inboard or outboard drum machines and synths? I guess it depends on what kind of music you make but say if you aren't planning on using a piano or keyboard in your production, is it still helpful to learn a traditional instrument; or are there diminishing returns on that, given the amount of time that it takes to learn proper technique when instead you could be sharpening your skills making tracks in a DAW?

Keyboard skills are a huge plus imo.Improvising especially develop the melodic and harmonic ear quite a lot.You develop skills at thinking and feeling music really quickly and instinctively.

I highly recommend it if it attracts you.

You can use keyboard skills to improvise and record live tracks as well,because after all,lots of synths are indeed keyboards!

But it's up to you.

Scales and mode theory is widely available

Stuff like this:

https://www.pianoscales.org/jazz.html

Check(and try them while producing,even more important) different type of chords,triads,7th chords,9th,11th,13 etc inversions,

Usually in electronic its pretty much tonal,so if you use them in key it works,so its less complicated than lets say in Jazz or Classical.

BUT

If you have the balls you can go chromatic and use weird and fucked chords as well.

Also:every chord imaginable can be used.

EVERY

SINGLE 

ONE

 

Just depend on what you want to do.

There is more than 3 notes Triads stacked in thirds.

 

Explore

[Auditor]

I've been learning a bit of music theory whereas before I was pretty well afraid of doing so, for the same reasons others discussed earlier. Are there any resources -online or otherwise - that you have found translate well to electronic composition?

 

Also, do you find that it's helpful to get out of the DAW and practice piano or something, or is it more helpful to stick with inboard or outboard drum machines and synths? I guess it depends on what kind of music you make but say if you aren't planning on using a piano or keyboard in your production, is it still helpful to learn a traditional instrument; or are there diminishing returns on that, given the amount of time that it takes to learn proper technique when instead you could be sharpening your skills making tracks in a DAW?

 

I would say that it would benefit anyone to learn scales/modes/chords on piano even if you don't want to get proficient at the instrument. Most softsynths have graphical "keyboards" anyways, and a midiroll in your DAW is also simply a keyboard. Learning a bit of theory can only expand your compositions in my opinion. 

 

As for resources... well, if you don't want to read notation then there aren't that many that I know of. I would honestly just buy/look up a chord chart that includes inversions. And read up on how modes work. You can then piece together your tunes, choosing to use bits of theory you have picked up if and when you want. If you do want to learn to play a little, then I can't recommend https://www.amazon.com/Improvising-Blues-Piano-Tim-Richards/dp/0946535973 book enough. It teaches you theory while teaching you how to play great sounding stuff at the same time. It also gets you improvising from the jump, which, as a composer, is awesome. 

[Polytrix]

I'm enjoying the discussion on getting into music theory. I'm also looking for a simple resource to help learn keys practically. The furthest I personally got was learning guitar scales and building chords around that but that's it. Like this thread

 

 

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[fxbip]

I'm enjoying the discussion on getting into music theory. I'm also looking for a simple resource to help learn keys practically. The furthest I personally got was learning guitar scales and building chords around that but that's it. Like this thread

 

 

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https://www.pianoscales.org/jazz.html

[Cryptowen]

if u spend your whole life working hard on music & still don't become an idm legend, it's only because you are still building up the needed positive karma to become one in a future lifetime. own the struggle, someday u will reincarnate as a techno mozart effortlessly making beautiful tunes four times a day every day in a beautiful place out in the country with nice natural reverb