Analog modulars vs. semi-modulars

[awepittance]

 

Just remember, modulars do not increase workflow for music making (99% of the time). If you have trouble focusing on making music and get sidetracked dicking around making didgeridoo noises that sound like they are coming from an aliens ass, it will only get worse with a modular.

 

exactly, especially the alien ass part.

[Guest maus]

i love the tereshkova. it's how i got started in eurorack fun. plus it looks and feels awesome.

 

the secret with the tereshkova (and vostok) is that it IS a eurorack modular. it's just called semi-modular because the modules are basically fused together by a giant front plate.

 

if you start expanding with individual eurorack modules, they'll of course interface flawlessly with the tereshkova.

 

i've since filled an entire a-100 case with additional modules, and there's always more cool stuff to add.

 

i did the video for the pittsburgh foundation and yes, it's technically just a 2-voice analogue, but it's hands-on, inspiring, and sounds fantastic. the pittsburgh modules sound amazing... the filter is REALLY nice.

 

eurorack is a different paradigm entirely. it's not like reaktor, and there is no software equivalent. that's not to say one is better than the other, but for me, there's an undeniable visceral quality to playing with a real modular setup. it's organic, it's instant, and it's (in a sense) disconnected from the software approach of making music. it can also be a pain in the ass. but there are moments i've had with my modular and analogue gear that i've never approached with software. horses for courses.

[digit]

the G2 has left me a far far more happy and satisfied man than my arp 2600 or doepfer modular system ever did. They just cant compete, maybe if you absolutely require analog sound, but the nord is pretty goddam capable of achieving analog like and seriously bassy tones. It has 4 slots for a different polyphonic modular synth in each one

 

so yeah for around $1k you can get a G2 that will obliterate any analog modular system for the same, double or even triple that price.

 

this. i also recommend getting a nord modular G2. i would go insane if i came up with these intricate patches on an analog modular and then had no way to save / recall them. plus, not very good to use live. pain in the ass to transport, re-configure on stage, etc...

 

tho the G2 is a digital synth, there are lots of ways to give its sound more character - both in the synth itself & using external gear. i've attached an mp3 of some G2 noodling. i recorded this straight into my MPC 1000 using the MPCs crappy built-in reverb, delay, & master EQ & compressor. just by running the inputs a little hot when recording you can get a lot more texture out of the synth.

 

...but on the actual analog (mini)modular tip, i think this looks really cool: http://www.anyware-i..._tinysizer.html

 

2012.04.17-19.30.273.mp3

[Guest Hanratty]

I have a Micro Modular. Sometimes it drives me nuts that it only has 3 knobs and I can't edit it without a computer. Other times I look at the back of it and I get a gear boner thinking about how much modular power is crammed into that tiny red box. One thing I know for sure is it sounds awesome as shit and in that regard, at least, it's all the analog I want or need. It's cool because it feels very precise and science-y, but it also sounds warm and sometimes fat, as mentioned earlier.

 

Sometimes I want to upgrade to a G1, G2, Lead or Monomachine for more immediacy and/or polyphony. But I don't really need to get any of those, and if I did, I probably couldn't put my rig in my backpack anymore.

 

I think the micro modular is maybe the perfect synth. open-ended enough to reward learning all it can do (which is a lot), but restricted enough to make you think. Plus it looks so cool and is made of metal.

[kakapo]

 

but maybe it's just me, im very much over and beyond being fixated on some kind of analog warmth.

 

 

I know where you're coming from, but the modular boom (at least eurorack) isn't about analogue fetishism. It's about CV and physical interaction. A lot of the most popular modules are digital. The analogue fetishists exist in a slightly different corner of the au(ral)tism spectrum, where they can masturbate over the differences between a rev2 and 3 prophet. It's a reaction against the laptop with the 100gig rompler. It's Delia Derbyshire versus Brian Transeau. It's musical serendipity elevated beyond artistic intent, which is both its strength and weakness.

[futureimage]

but maybe it's just me, im very much over and beyond being fixated on some kind of analog warmth.

 

 

I know where you're coming from, but the modular boom (at least eurorack) isn't about analogue fetishism. It's about CV and physical interaction. A lot of the most popular modules are digital.

Yeah, the modular world feels the same to be honest, most users are all about combining the two. The reason to go modular is the insane level of flexibility and, to be quite frank, fun you have with one of these systems.

 

You have a modular yourself though Awepittance am I right?

[Rbrmyofr]

I disagree with the "modulars do not increase workflow for music making". Compared to a lot of software out there I find it easier to dial up things I want in the modular world. I think half the reason for this is I find it hard to get a bad sound out of the modular stuff I own (Serge / Fenix II), compared to the software I used to use (Reaktor mostly).

[marf]

im trying to understand this. you like your nord G2 over a 2600 cause you can save patches? ok, well... what are you asking price wise for the Arp?

 

I figure its good to have a few options though. You want to make tracks right? Not just play with a toy. it might be good to have more than a few sound sources at your disposal

[Guest Diao]

I disagree with the "modulars do not increase workflow for music making". Compared to a lot of software out there I find it easier to dial up things I want in the modular world. I think half the reason for this is I find it hard to get a bad sound out of the modular stuff I own (Serge / Fenix II), compared to the software I used to use (Reaktor mostly).

 

Sorry, I should have been a bit more clear. They do not increase workflow in comparison to a standard hardwired (or semi-modular) synth.

 

Their limitless nature does not lift the curse of impeded progress, but only creates a new and more challenging problem, aural infinity (almost)..

[awepittance]

but maybe it's just me, im very much over and beyond being fixated on some kind of analog warmth.

 

 

I know where you're coming from, but the modular boom (at least eurorack) isn't about analogue fetishism. It's about CV and physical interaction. A lot of the most popular modules are digital. The analogue fetishists exist in a slightly different corner of the au(ral)tism spectrum, where they can masturbate over the differences between a rev2 and 3 prophet. It's a reaction against the laptop with the 100gig rompler. It's Delia Derbyshire versus Brian Transeau. It's musical serendipity elevated beyond artistic intent, which is both its strength and weakness.

 

im trying to understand this. you like your nord G2 over a 2600 cause you can save patches? ok, well... what are you asking price wise for the Arp?

 

I figure its good to have a few options though. You want to make tracks right? Not just play with a toy. it might be good to have more than a few sound sources at your disposal

 

well thats not why i like my G2 over my arp2600, there are many reasons

 

-the g2 will not randomly wear down over time causing me to get it serviced

-the g2 does not go out of tune

-the g2 is fully polyphonic

-not just polyphonic but 4 slots of instruments at the same time, each fully modular

 

I am asking for $4500 for the arp, and i dont really want to ship it

 

about the only reason i hesitate to sell the 2600 is because of it's awesome filter which when modulated with the sine wave vco sounds absolutely amazing, besides a serge i've never heard the level of harmonic sweeping pleasure that it can create.

The spring reverb in it is also nice. Beyond that i really have no reason to hold onto it anymore.

 

[quote name=futureimage' timestamp='1341570137'

post='1845183]

but maybe it's just me, im very much over and beyond being fixated on some kind of analog warmth.

 

 

I know where you're coming from, but the modular boom (at least eurorack) isn't about analogue fetishism. It's about CV and physical interaction. A lot of the most popular modules are digital.

Yeah, the modular world feels the same to be honest, most users are all about combining the two. The reason to go modular is the insane level of flexibility and, to be quite frank, fun you have with one of these systems.

 

You have a modular yourself though Awepittance am I right?

 

yeah i have a few modular setups, and i guess for me i needed to get out of my system the 'extreme flexibility' and knob twiddling energy i had in me. I expended that energy already and i am now totally back on computers and digital hardware synths. The only analog synth i own is a polyevolver ,and ill probably be getting rid of that soon. I just dont have the patience anymore, even when im in sound design mode. Gigging with a modular is especially a pain in the as,s the 3 times i tried doing it it was more headache than worth it. I can understand the desire for people to get modulars, they are a sound designers/programmers dream come true, i just dont have the desire anymore. And i am one of those people where in having too many things like that only hinders my work flow. ITs a whole lot of fun to twiddle for hours especially with a few joints

[futureimage]

Wow OK, fair enough, I can understand it's not for some :)

[Rbrmyofr]

PS: 4500 dollars for a working Arp 2600 is a bargain.

[Audioblysk]

so...

 

 

want to sell me your polyevolver, Awe?? I'd gladly take such a beautiful machine off you, some of us haven't been so spoiled to be 'over' some of the coolest synths ever.

 

I could see how twiddling knobs, tuning issues, and no patch saves would be a pain, but I think thats the fun of it sometimes.

[awepittance]

where are you in the us? im unloading a lot of gear soon ill post something here when i do

[Audioblysk]

I'm up in Seattle. I was half kidding, but if the price is right, I'd get it.

[Guest kokeboka]

A question about modular gear: what makes a good oscillator? I know it sounds like a dumb question, but it's relatively easy to judge the quality of a filter by listening to how it affects sound, more or less the same can be said about envelopes and LFOs - but what about oscillators, what makes an oscillator good or bad? Are there musically different-sounding oscillators that justify extra investment? Or are they all theoretically the same in the sense that the only added value are the routing options and tuning stability?

 

I'm asking because it occured to me that it seems too easy to pair budget VCOs with an upscale VCF and get similar results to someone who has pricy VCOs and the same VCF. Module manufacturers hype up mostly the technical aspects of their VCOs and an unfiltered sawtooth wave should be the same everywhere, but I'm a little skeptical that price differences comes down to just routing options, aesthetics and build quality.

[futureimage]

A lot of analogue purists claim they can hear differences in VCOs but if you ask me, if they're calibrated correctly in terms of pitch tracking and waveform shaping (so sine "purity", etc.)

 

There ARE really nice/interesting VCOs out there though. For example the Livewire Audio Frequency Generator is very pricey but totally worth it. Tracks very well, and the waveshaping section for the Animated Pulses and Alien Saws outputs is amazing. It can also be used as an LFO.

 

BTW, if you're looking for "different" VCFs:

http://futuresoundsystems.co.uk/fil2.htm

[Rbrmyofr]

A lot of analogue purists claim they can hear differences in VCOs

A lot of them do sound very different. I recorded an example a while ago of the oscillators from 13 different analogue synths all with the filter completely open and playing the same few notes, I'll have to search for the files but it's really easy to hear the difference, even in synths using the same CEM chip. Four of the synths used CEM 3340 oscillator but they still sounded different.

[sweepstakes]

A lot of analogue purists claim they can hear differences in VCOs

A lot of them do sound very different. I recorded an example a while ago of the oscillators from 13 different analogue synths all with the filter completely open and playing the same few notes, I'll have to search for the files but it's really easy to hear the difference, even in synths using the same CEM chip. Four of the synths used CEM 3340 oscillator but they still sounded different.

 

It sounds like you're talking about hard-wired synths, though, with filters and other signal-transforming circuitry between the VCO and the main output. This seems to bolster futureimage's hypothesis.

[th555]

Wouldn't an open analog filter still influence the sound?

[Rbrmyofr]

It sounds like you're talking about hard-wired synths

No, I recorded a mix of regular synths, semi modular and modular stuff.

 

Open filters and the path the audio takes will obviously influence the sound, but there's quite a difference even between the oscillators in the various modulars too. Some do sound better than others, personal taste comes into it too of course.

 

Budget analogue oscillators can sound good. In fact I've yet to hear an analogue oscillator I hated. :)

[futureimage]

Wow ok. Again this may be due to imperfections in the waveshaping though? Kind of defeats my point, analogue VCOs will be slightly different, just I can't (be bothered to) hear it heh.

[sweepstakes]

I think the micro modular is maybe the perfect synth. open-ended enough to reward learning all it can do (which is a lot), but restricted enough to make you think. Plus it looks so cool and is made of metal.

It really is a beautiful synth. I just get irritated sometimes by the fact that I have to use a computer to edit it. It gets me out of the flow, somehow. Where my Shruthi-1 has a very distinct sound that is really inappropriate for a lot of things, but it's so easy to edit and get in a flow with that it's my go-to synth and I just get more done with it.

[soundwave]

A lot of analogue purists claim they can hear differences in VCOs

A lot of them do sound very different. I recorded an example a while ago of the oscillators from 13 different analogue synths all with the filter completely open and playing the same few notes, I'll have to search for the files but it's really easy to hear the difference, even in synths using the same CEM chip. Four of the synths used CEM 3340 oscillator but they still sounded different.

 

there is a very noticeable difference in harmonic's with discrete circuit VCO's, SSM/Curtis chip's and DCO's. Also mixer saturation and feedback can alter the balance of tone.