Vinyl records mount comeback

[eugene]

a horrible hipster, resource wasting phenomena that'll hopefully die asap.

 

you don't buy FLAC's by paying for them, you can't own music, you are buying your fav artist a beer or a sandwich.

if you like the album format then the digital files don't limit you at all, you can still listen to albums, why do have this need to be forced to listen to albums ? i still listen to the same albums tens of times if i feel like it using my mp3 player.

if you like big pictures then just download and print em.

the vinyl production method is just as soulless as any other mass produced piece of plastic.

oh and if you like that nostalgic and romantic vynil crackle jsut download a plugin that'll generate this random bullshit for you

fuck.

 

and yes, generative music is the future.

[syd syside]

a horrible hipster, resource wasting phenomena that'll hopefully die asap.

 

you don't buy FLAC's by paying for them, you can't own music, you are buying your fav artist a beer or a sandwich.

if you like the album format then the digital files don't limit you at all, you can still listen to albums, why do have this need to be forced to listen to albums ? i still listen to the same albums tens of times if i feel like it using my mp3 player.

if you like big pictures then just download and print em.

the vinyl production method is just as soulless as any other mass produced piece of plastic.

 

fuck.

 

and yes, generative music is the future.

 

In context to a social situation, I find listening to records to be better because people aren't inclined to search a youtube and end the album you were listening to. I know its reasonable to get confrontational about this, but at the same time I don't want to make people listen to what I want to listen, I want the context to do all the explaining. Finding a record, taking the time to carefully put it on the table, and showing them the record art/sleeves, etc... is more romantic than flac. Of course I also realize that this is subjective and classifying people as hipster or whatever because they enjoy something you don't.... is a bit hipster. And I don't mean that literally, but really the only people that I consider hipsters are those who use the word to generalize something or demonize something.

[apriorion]

I noticed that the defenders of vinyl here aren't making the argument that it sounds better than CD or anything like that, but I thought you might enjoy this recent discussion from NPR's "Science Friday": http://www.npr.org/2012/02/10/146697658/why-vinyl-sounds-better-than-cd-or-not

[eugene]

a horrible hipster, resource wasting phenomena that'll hopefully die asap.

 

you don't buy FLAC's by paying for them, you can't own music, you are buying your fav artist a beer or a sandwich.

if you like the album format then the digital files don't limit you at all, you can still listen to albums, why do have this need to be forced to listen to albums ? i still listen to the same albums tens of times if i feel like it using my mp3 player.

if you like big pictures then just download and print em.

the vinyl production method is just as soulless as any other mass produced piece of plastic.

 

fuck.

 

and yes, generative music is the future.

 

In context to a social situation, I find listening to records to be better because people aren't inclined to search a youtube and end the album you were listening to. I know its reasonable to get confrontational about this, but at the same time I don't want to make people listen to what I want to listen, I want the context to do all the explaining. Finding a record, taking the time to carefully put it on the table, and showing them the record art/sleeves, etc... is more romantic than flac. Of course I also realize that this is subjective and classifying people as hipster or whatever because they enjoy something you don't.... is a bit hipster. And I don't mean that literally, but really the only people that I consider hipsters are those who use the word to generalize something or demonize something.

 

calling you people hipsters is trolling obviously..but you're liking something that is wasteful and unreasonable, no use defending it with subjectivity.

[syd syside]

a horrible hipster, resource wasting phenomena that'll hopefully die asap.

 

you don't buy FLAC's by paying for them, you can't own music, you are buying your fav artist a beer or a sandwich.

if you like the album format then the digital files don't limit you at all, you can still listen to albums, why do have this need to be forced to listen to albums ? i still listen to the same albums tens of times if i feel like it using my mp3 player.

if you like big pictures then just download and print em.

the vinyl production method is just as soulless as any other mass produced piece of plastic.

 

fuck.

 

and yes, generative music is the future.

 

In context to a social situation, I find listening to records to be better because people aren't inclined to search a youtube and end the album you were listening to. I know its reasonable to get confrontational about this, but at the same time I don't want to make people listen to what I want to listen, I want the context to do all the explaining. Finding a record, taking the time to carefully put it on the table, and showing them the record art/sleeves, etc... is more romantic than flac. Of course I also realize that this is subjective and classifying people as hipster or whatever because they enjoy something you don't.... is a bit hipster. And I don't mean that literally, but really the only people that I consider hipsters are those who use the word to generalize something or demonize something.

 

calling you people hipsters is trolling obviously..but you're liking something that is wasteful and unreasonable, no use defending it with subjectivity.

 

Hmm, I would say CDs will be more wasteful in a future with no CD drives. The vinyl I own, I am either gonna re-sell or keep forever. When I die my grandkids will use them or hold onto them or something. Unless you are against all physical media/art, then I don't really see the argument that vinyl is bad for the environment as something very serious, at least from my perspective as an individual who will not trash my LPs.

 

Perhaps manufacturing vinyl is really bad for the environment. Hadn't thought about that. But really... are you gonna argue my habit is causing Global Warming or something? I think there are other structural things that are contributing to environmental problems.

[eugene]

it's not about trashing, its about producing, you do promote more new vinyl production after all ? compared to producing a copy of music on FLAC, vynil is times and times more wasteful, obviously. i am against physical anything as long there's an alternative, as in the case with music.

 

yes, your habit causes more environmental damage than the habit of listening to music in digital form.

[azatoth]

LOL @ Eugene talking about what's unreasonable and what's not.

[syd syside]

yes, your habit causes more environmental damage than the habit of listening to music in digital form.

 

Obviously, however it'd be nice to know how terrible this really is? Lets say I own 100 records but I don't own a car or drive very much, usually ride a bike. Is it worse to buy a LP every month or drive a car everyday? It just seems like a pretty ridiculous way to counter a preference when many many human activities are not environmentally friendly... consider the technology needed to be developed so that you can have Flacs on a portable music player. (child slavery etc)

[eugene]

i don't know how terrible it is relative to the whole world but it's terrible because the technology to play flacs is already there and it kills the need for producing massive amount of discs. i don't really see the point of this bargaining, you don't use a car - good, but you do use records and it's bad.

[syd syside]

i don't know how terrible it is relative to the whole world but it's terrible because the technology to play flacs is already there and it kills the need for producing massive amount of discs. i don't really see the point of this bargaining, you don't use a car - good, but you do use records and it's bad.

 

i still listen to the same albums tens of times if i feel like it using my mp3 player.

 

Cheap technology was created under bad environmental / human conditions and still are, yet I don't see you arguing against using mp3 players. That's my point.

[eugene]

the point is that using and producing vinyl at this point is more damaging to environment than using digital music.

 

as for development of newer technologies and the effect of that process on the environment, we need some numbers which i don't have

[Alcofribas]

i'd like to see some evidence that vinyl production is currently "more damaging to environment than using digital music." you don't have numbers so you're basically just talking out yer ass.

 

it seems to me that the production of mp3 players, computers, smartphones, etc far exceeds the production of vinyl and is thus way more damaging to the environment.

 

but i don't have numbers, so i'm also talking out of my ass.

[eugene]

you're comparing very different things, lets compare strictly home audio. you don't really need numbers for that, considering that a computer and a turntable already exist in a household there's no way in hell 40,000 mp3s are anything close to 40k tracks on vynil in env. footprint-wise.

 

edit:

found some numbers anyway, its about cd vs digital though: http://download.inte...oadsrelease.pdf

[luke viia]

From eugene's article:

 

We find that despite the increased energy and emissions associated with Internet data

flows, purchasing music digitally reduces the energy and carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions

associated with delivering music to customers by between 40 and 80% from the best-case

physical CD delivery, depending on whether a customer then burns the files to CD or not

(Figure ES-1). This reduction is due to the elimination of CDs, CD packaging, and the

physical delivery of CDs to the household. Based on our assumptions, online delivery is

clearly superior from an energy and CO2 perspective when compared to traditional CD

distribution.

 

So they seem to think that digital distribution is far better for the environment than producing physical CDs. I tried to look into the environmental impact of vinyl vs digital music production, but did not come up with any solid articles. I did find this poorly thought-out argument about "Why Vinyl is Cleaner Than the (i)Cloud." Unfortunately I have immediate issues with many of their points; they have attacked ripped CDs and DVDs in many of the points, not digital distribution itself, and in point 3 they claim that vinyl records often do not pose much damage to the environment even if they do get into landfills, because "vinyl material can be better broken down naturally in comparison to many other plastics." I was under the impression that many new vinyl records are made of polyvinyl chloride (PVC), which is one of the hardest plastics to decompose. There's a reason PVC pipes are used in so much construction... it doesn't readily decompose. Seems like a "duh" issue, but maybe there's some sort of biodegradable vinyl being used. I can't imagine why collectors would want a record that is designed to naturally deteriorate, but maybe. Points 6-8 are all complete jokes IMO, especially 8.

 

I think that intuitively, digital distribution is the winner in terms of ecological impact. The devices playing the files are not the problem at hand; they are not typically devices designed to play JUST music files (and in the future, none of these devices will be just mp3 players, IMO. ipods will be completely replaced by phones/pocket computers. why wouldn't they? it's a matter of getting one device to be able to do it all). The digital files themselves are clearly less environmentally harmful than physical objects forged from the Earth, and ultimately holding the same data. I have little doubt in my mind about which is environmentally superior, but the issue is more complicated than I originally assumed, that's for sure. It just seems highly unreasonable to suggest that physical objects would be better for the Earth than freely reproducible data. tl;dr 2 cents, have a nice day.

[luke viia]

digitalmusicnews.com: Uh oh, the vinyl train is starting to slow...

 

[syd syside]

I'm not sure if that's really an indication considering the jump from 2009-2010 was less noteworthy and the fact that 2012 would equal the biggest sales in vinyl since 1993 (at least).

 

I think criticizing vinyl for not being environmental while newer technology is being produced by child labor/slave labor and is causing major air quality problems in China... is a bit hypocritical. Like I said in the OP, unless you are living in the mountains and off the land, you really can't be in a position to proclaim using vinyl is worse than fully boarding the digital/technological train. At least I don't see enough evidence to suggest that the increase in vinyl is having as adverse affects on our environment as iPods, Laptops, Computers, Phones. Point being, we are all fucking up the environment, by eating, living, and using entertainment devices...

[luke viia]

Both articles I just mentioned in my posts were worth mentioning solely because they come from the same source as your original graph showing such huge increase in vinyl sales. I don't want to make any claims as to DMN's research accuracy, it could be garbage for all I know. They don't cite anything. Also please note that I am in no way trying to say that people who collect vinyl are somehow evil bastards out to hurt the environment. The argument is about which distribution method is better for the environment. Based on transport alone, digital distribution seems to trump vinyl. Imagine the amount of petrol used to ship vinyl to and from distributors or to individuals via mail order/postal service. Digital, on the other hand, has no transport costs other than electricity. As for the devices playing digital files: one of these devices can play back the equivalent of 10,000+ vinyl records. Ten thousand vinyl records is a LOT of consumption. In your pocket. On one device. A device that can largely be recycled, refurbished, or re-used, so long as you - the user - don't put it in the garbage. The argument that digital devices are just going straight in the garbage is not the fault of the devices themselves; it is primarily the societies fault for not utilizing and encouraging recycling facilities, and switching to vinyl does nothing to curb that problem, especially if you also use a computer or ipod.

 

Yes, we are all fucking up the environment. Don't let vinyl consumption make you feel like a dick. Just know that it's not helping and doesn't need to be justified like that stupid "Why Vinyl is Cleaner than the Cloud" article attempted to do.

[eugene]

I think criticizing vinyl for not being environmental while newer technology is being produced by child labor/slave labor and is causing major air quality problems in China... is a bit hypocritical. Like I said in the OP, unless you are living in the mountains and off the land, you really can't be in a position to proclaim using vinyl is worse than fully boarding the digital/technological train.

why not? while i'm not a vegetarian/vegan i fully realize that eating meat causes suffering for various animals..

 

At least I don't see enough evidence to suggest that the increase in vinyl is having as adverse affects on our environment as iPods, Laptops, Computers, Phones. Point being, we are all fucking up the environment, by eating, living, and using entertainment devices...

there's really no sense in comparing various digital devices with vinyl playback, if you compare home music listening on vinyl vs. digital the picture is very clear.

 

 

yes we all do our part in destroying this planet, but at least now you have another issue to worry about !

[Guest zaphod]

i wish i could find the graph showing vinyl sales from the 60's to present, because it proved that sales aren't increasing at all. it's just a slight increase after a period of low sales that, relative to thirty years ago, is close to nothing. vinyl sales make up a tiny percentage of the market. these articles come out every year but let's face it, the future is digital.

[Redruth]

[zkreso]

^^so in 2012 vinyl sales are 1,3%

 

We are the 1%

[Alcofribas]

returning to the issue of environmental impact i think it's kind of meaningless to compare the manufacture and distribution of vinyl to digital media. the latter is obviously tied to a much more vast consumerist culture that far outweighs vinyl consumption such that a comparison is basically ridiculous. it's obvious that making vinyl is "worse" for the environment than creating digital copies if we are speaking in an abstract sense. but in the real world it seems obvious that the digital "milieu" (if you will) is way more destructive to the environment.

 

basically, if we just look at all the vinyl produced and shipped in the world i imagine it's negative environmental impact is significantly dwarfed by the vast web of digital consumption. the argument about 10,000 vinyl in one digital device is pretty lame imo. there's probably like .01% of people on the planet who have 10,000 vinyl. but there are clearly many millions more people who have cell phones, computers, ereaders, internet, etc than even own one single vinyl. and all this shit is just getting more and more vast and all this shit is almost completely obsolete in just a few years (i myself have been through several laptops, desktops, hard drives, phones, etc in my life). i think when you add all this shit up it's clear that making all this crap, distributing it, keeping it all running and going 24/7 makes vinyl production look like a fucking vegan tree-hugging environmentalism.

[Alcofribas]

its : (

[pcock]

vinyl is cool as fuck. why would i want a harddrive full of flacs when i could have a wall full of beautiful and tangible music. eugene can get a life.

 

also, for djs, if you play vinyl you get respect. turning up in a club with a laptop and a midi controller just makes you look like a wanker. playing the same set on vinyl is more skillful, and therefore more interesting.

[pcock]

and why your even talking about it being a waste of plastic/resources, i dont know. i bet a single large oil refinery pumps out more toxic waste in one day than the amount that every vinyl ever made has.

 

 

lets stop painting on canvases and just do it straight on the computer, canvasses are a waste of perfectly good cloth you could be cleaning your sandy, bleeding vagina with.